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  1. #26
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    no way thy are throwing anything back and forth when he can simply be in a stringer car- as everyone is stating he is using - wouldnt the car he ran 4.x 60-130 be able to do a 5.9? or a GTR? id put money on thats what he is doing, same thing witht he M3, to pull those G's with a car that makes no power so low is impossible, same with a porsche

  2. #27
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    anyway, outside of that dude I am going to mess with some other software and VBO files and see what fake runs can be done.. and will try the vbox shake just to see what effect if any it is has
    Driving fresh air now

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  3. #28
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    I'm not saying it can't be done this way, but why go through all that trouble? There has got to be an easier way.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    i dont see why a bike and his car cant go out on the road , bike sits back at 50mph his car gets up to 100mph and cruises awaiting the bike to begin accelerating at which time he than floors it and the bike slows to the cars speed, and rides along side of him to 130 mph ... that will show proper speeds after 100 and the crazy G readings prior to 100 mph; to get a believable yet record run completed.
    Why not just put the vbox on the bike and not go full throttle and get the times he is looking for? That would be much easier would it not? Something else is going on here.

  5. #30
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    because the G readings later on in the run are much lower and indicative of a car with less power or a more powerful car accelerating at a reduced rate. @AlexQuattro
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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  6. #31
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    I picked up my Bimmer but the lower front control arms are busted so did just some easy pulls and did things like

    1. switch box on/off
    2. throw box into a pillow as I accelerate
    3. shake the box violently back and forth as I accelerate and also while stationery
    4. zap the box with radar
    5. Elint


    Whilst parked on Fifth Ave in NY, parked and stationery I was able to


    get the vbox to show 10 mph movemement

    Click here to enlarge

    Whilst driving a 240 whp car under hard accel from 20-70 mph I could get 1g and more by violently shaking the box, note at 60 mph and 0.99g implies my car has 700+ bhp.

    Click here to enlarge

    I was also able to mimic that at cruising speeds

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Group.america; 12-05-2014 at 05:30 PM.
    Driving fresh air now

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  7. #32
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    Once I am back to my house next week (I am in the big bad city for 4 days) I will upload all of the data using the performance box software and see what is what

    My box is set to measure 60-130 and 40-80 mph so did not get any tests suitable to upload to the vboxtools.com

    If we get a warm day next week I will drive the Porsche at WOT from 40-80 mph and see if I can shake the box and get different speeds and g forces or once the BMW is fixed will use that as it is safer alone in an auto. I have a private housing estate road where I can try it and not kill anyone.
    Driving fresh air now

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  8. #33
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    That was exactly thought on why I said the acceleration graph isn't a reliable source of info on hp especially for initial torque/acceleration. Good luck.

  9. #34
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    If someone has a PDK or DCT car and want to try this with say a passenger, just do a simple 30-70 mph pull and as you take off have the passenger either violently and quickly shake the vbox back and forth or make a throwing motion back and forth. You should be able to show a higher speed than the car is actually doing.

    Note - on the vbox screen it did show a 0-60 mph run in 4.0 seconds but the data card was not in and I could not be sure satellites were dropping out.

    Also, I did notice whilst stuck in a traffic jam and cruising that weird things happened as sats seemed to come on line.. no way of knowing until I do a full simulation next week
    Driving fresh air now

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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    That was exactly thought on why I said the acceleration graph isn't a reliable source of info on hp especially for initial torque/acceleration. Good luck.

    Please note - it is only faulty when manipulated either by shaking, throwing or having massive clutch slip, getting airborne or having tire slip.. but the only one where it shows those Gs is where I am throwing it back and forth violently.
    Driving fresh air now

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    Click here to enlarge



  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlexQuattro Click here to enlarge
    I'm not saying it can't be done this way, but why go through all that trouble? There has got to be an easier way.

    My gut says it is being thrown from a very fast car (motorbike) into another car... all the g forces and times seem to point to that at this time.
    Driving fresh air now

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    Click here to enlarge



  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    Okay, so this really annoyed me last night. I tried to get data into another device and format to change and then thought even if I do that the GPS sat data, location data, accelration data, G forces etc will not change even if I simply change the times of the data.
    I appreciate what you are doing here regarding the integrity of runs but please make your point without quoting or mentioned PTF.

    They are not responsible for any of this. Post edited.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - please delete my large dump at nos 10, above i just tried to link one comment and for some reason the whole thing dumped
    Removed as requested.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky

    I had an idea for a better vbox that would be effective for street racing, and is was a bluetooth sync between two vboxs that included a beep system/light tree that would tell both when they were near the same speed, and when they hit a certain point on the course it would tell them to accelerate. There would also be a feature for identifying false starts (showing exactly how much sooner the other car went) and you could turn that off, but still see the difference in time/distance between the two cars when they went full throttle.

    Vbox could offer this themselves with very little work, now that they have a smartphone based solution. However, the barrier to entry for a new company to make this is high, and the sales volume would be low. I suspect a price point of $500-1000 would be needed per device, whether or not that would be feasible would depend on how expensive the timing systems are that the roll-on events use.

    Could call it portable dragstrip Click here to enlarge
    I'm already working on this and it incorporates some of what you suggested here.

    My 60-130.com domain will serve as the database.

    I also will be restructuring the slope necessary for a valid run. 3% is too high and I'm thinking more along 1.99%.

    Anyone who would like in on this as I expect my database and device to become the de-facto standard should message me. I expect for it to provide a tidy profit as well.

  15. #40
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    I was thinking the only way around my manipulation argument is to lock a gps performance box to a VIN.. but that then kills the benefit of having a mobile GPS vbox.... oh what a tangled web
    Driving fresh air now

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    Click here to enlarge



  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I appreciate what you are doing here regarding the integrity of runs but please make your point without quoting or mentioned PTF.

    They are not responsible for any of this. Post edited.

    I meant to cut and paste just the pencilgeek comments which are pertinent, for some reason it multiquoted the whole thread almost....

    my apologies to all
    Driving fresh air now

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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    I was thinking the only way around my manipulation argument is to lock a gps performance box to a VIN.. but that then kills the benefit of having a mobile GPS vbox.... oh what a tangled web
    I thought of a pretty simple solution...

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    I meant to cut and paste just the pencilgeek comments which are pertinent, for some reason it multiquoted the whole thread almost....

    my apologies to all
    I think we can all live without his comments.

  19. #44
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    no pencilgeek is the good guy who wrote vboxtool.com

    he set me straight on the programming angle along with racelogic

    implication is that .DBN files alone cannot be altered and the other files cannot be saved as .DBN
    Driving fresh air now

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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    no pencilgeek is the good guy who wrote vboxtool.com
    Oh I'm familiar with him. He's not a good guy.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    mplication is that .DBN files alone cannot be altered and the other files cannot be saved as .DBN
    I don't see why you can't hex edit the dbn values.

  21. #46
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    Dude last time I programmed anything of use outside of an excel or tradestation code was in Pascal 28 years ago so I don't know except what people tell me...

    I am certain the VBO stuff can be changed easily using one of the cell phone based data loggers then be sent to vboxverify but the .DBN would be a lot tougher....
    Driving fresh air now

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  22. #47
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    Okay, shaking the vbox gives rise to easily detectable SQUIGGLES in the chart and the G force rise... it does not seem to affect times from my BMW runs from the first initial tests. Throwing it does affect the SPEED
    Driving fresh air now

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    Click here to enlarge



  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    because the G readings later on in the run are much lower and indicative of a car with less power or a more powerful car accelerating at a reduced rate. @AlexQuattro
    Exactly, all the curves on the many suspect vbox charts this guy has posted on 3 different cars is indicative of a 2 vehicle run.

    The reason they do it at the 60-80 mph range (the cheating that is) is because it is much safer to throw a vbox sport or portable battery operated GPS logger at that speed from one car or bike to another car than to do it at higher speeds...

    hence in the rigged runs the outlandish part of the run is always at the start.... now that he knows that he will be able to adjust and falsify records in a more "reasonable" manner which is the sucky part of all of this.
    Driving fresh air now

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    Click here to enlarge



  24. #49
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    I just can't help but imagine a guy that wants to falsify his runs so he has a friend throw a vbox in his car at speed. What if he gets hit in the face or the vbox hits the windshield? lol

  25. #50
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    I just can't imagine why someone would go to all this trouble for internet forum bragging.

    You want fake internet props for your car? How fragile is his ego?

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