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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    West coast has fast tracks to, you just have to be an actual racer to know where they are. Did you sell that 1000HP 12 second car yet?
    We don't need to get personal like that, he's right, ATCO And MIR are better tracks.

    What fast West Coast tracks? Only fast track we have is Sac and that is because of the timing error. We have crap for tracks.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are absolutely right, Sac equipment is off but it almost balances out the MIR and ATCO advantage.
    Sticky when have you ever raced at MIR or ATCO? There is no advantage other than being at near sea level and all tracks near the cost are. DA fluctuates madly like anywhere else. Point being the timing equipment is not defective. Please in quantitative terms explain to me the MIR/ATCO advantage? If you've raced there year round you would know they aren't fast in the summer and all sea level tracks are fast in the winter.

    Of course MIR often has positive DA, it is not a perpetual summer. Doesn't change the fact ATCO and MIR see lower DA and have better prep. They are better tracks, would love to run there.
    Lower DA vs what? Firebird? Bandimere? Of course, as for other tracks on the east cost, nope, they are where they are supposed to be.

    I have never in my life run in -1500 DA but would like to. ATCO sees it routinely, how come?
    Probably because the East Coast guys have regular rentals year round and you pay attention only to the winter results because that's when records are set, no one sets records in the summer.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Sticky when have you ever raced at MIR or ATCO? There is no advantage other than being at near sea level and all tracks near the cost are. DA fluctuates madly like anywhere else. Point being the timing equipment is not defective. Please in quantitative terms explain to me the MIR/ATCO advantage? If you've raced there year round you would know they aren't fast in the summer and all sea level tracks are fast in the winter.
    I have never raced there and can't until I get the chance to do so. MIR and ATCO definitely being tops on my list of tracks I would like to run at.

    Of course the DA fluctuates. The advantages is simply the tracks are in a great location with great prep so in winter the conditions are very favorable. There is nothing "wrong" with them, just great tracks in a great location that many wisely take advantage of. If running there in the Winter seriously is not advantageous then why don't tuners have track shootouts in say... Arizona?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Lower DA vs what? Firebird? Bandimere? Of course, as for other tracks on the east cost, nope, they are where they are supposed to be.
    Yep, there is a group of tracks on the East Coast that are able when the conditions allow it (Winter) to get incredible -DA. That is where the advantage is.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Probably because the East Coast guys have regular rentals year round and you pay attention only to the winter results because that's when records are set, no one sets records in the summer.
    Exactly, record results come out in the Winter. Nothing to disagree about there...
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  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The result seems to prove otherwise though as wasn't the ET better in worse DA?
    His car ran better in worse air that's correct, so when he puts his new intake on and runs in better air, what do you think will happen?

    Of course, this was not referring specifically to any run but making the point that running in negative DA in general means you have cold dense air and even if you run back to back it is still gulping in cold dense air.
    +1150 is not dense air, and obviously not negative DA, and 30 passes between 130-131mph were achieved that day.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We don't need to get personal like that, he's right, ATCO And MIR are better tracks.
    Hey I thought we could say what we wanted without fear of reprisal? Click here to enlarge

    Have you or he been there? How would you know? Just curious. Just because they are easy to rent out year round doesn't mean they are any better than what you have.

    What fast West Coast tracks? Only fast track we have is Sac and that is because of the timing error. We have crap for tracks.
    Look to the north.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    His car ran better in worse air that's correct, so when he puts his new intake on and runs in better air, what do you think will happen?
    I'm hoping he will get even better results as he should.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    +1150 is not dense air, and obviously not negative DA, and 30 passes between 130-131mph were achieved that day.
    I agree. I think you may just be missing what the comment was referring to, that running back to back is not the equivalent of running in the summer because the source of air in negative DA always remains cold and dense.
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  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I have never raced there and can't until I get the chance to do so. MIR and ATCO definitely being tops on my list of tracks I would like to run at.
    There are "nicer" tracks but these are 2 solid tracks no question.

    Of course the DA fluctuates. The advantages is simply the tracks are in a great location with great prep so in winter the conditions are very favorable. There is nothing "wrong" with them, just great tracks in a great location that many wisely take advantage of. If running there in the Winter seriously is not advantageous then why don't tuners have track shootouts in say... Arizona?
    Initial sentence goes with any coastal track in winter, elevation close to sea level + cold air + prep= Records.

    I mentioned Firebird previously. Didn't someone want to do a Porsche shootout in AZ? What a stupid idea LOL.

    Coastal Tracks are not Firebird.



    Yep, there is a group of tracks on the East Coast that are able when the conditions allow it (Winter) to get incredible -DA. That is where the advantage is.
    Did you not just post that the car this thread is about ran in -400 to -450' DA? So are you saying -450' DA in CA is somehow equal to or worse than +1250' DA in MD?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Hey I thought we could say what we wanted without fear of reprisal?
    Of course, but no reason we can't respect one another while doing that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Have you or he been there? How would you know? Just curious. Just because they are easy to rent out year round doesn't mean they are any better than what you have.
    I don't have to be there to see the DA and a mountain of results?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Look to the north.
    Infineon? Worse than Sac as far as fast times and headwind issues but a better quality strip as far as the timing and prep.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    I mentioned Firebird previously. Didn't someone want to do a Porsche shootout in AZ? What a stupid idea LOL.

    Coastal Tracks are not Firebird.
    This is exactly my point. Why would one not want to go to AZ? Obviously because better times are going to be set at ATCO and MIR. If I could choose ANYWHERE to set a record time, I would choose one of those, in the Winter.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Did you not just post that the car this thread is about ran in -400 to -450' DA? So are you saying -450' DA in CA is somehow equal to or worse than +1250' DA in MD?
    No, I don't understand why people are making a comparison to other runs. My whole point of bringing up the DA and that this is a West Coast record is because the conditions matter. For some reason, some guys are taking this negatively which I don't understand. Maybe MHP guys are just used to the fights on MBW?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm hoping he will get even better results as he should.
    Mike and his crew seem to improve everytime they go out, because they bust their asses, and I have no question they will do the same again next rental. It's not just the parts, it's the guys using them and most importantly maximizing their potential.

    I agree. I think you may just be missing what the comment was referring to, that running back to back is not the equivalent of running in the summer because the source of air in negative DA always remains cold and dense.
    I agree, heatsoak is one thing but it's still better to be heatsoaked racing in 40F air than 80F air.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    I agree, heatsoak is one thing but it's still better to be heatsoaked racing in 40F air than 80F air.
    Thank you, exactly my point.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course, but no reason we can't respect one another while doing that.
    He takes jabs, he gets jabs taken at him. Such is life.

    I don't have to be there to see the DA and a mountain of results?
    Still looking for a quantitative measure for the "MIR/ATCO advantage", frankly there is none. It's just winter racing at a coastal track.

    Infineon? Worse than Sac as far as fast times and headwind issues but a better quality strip as far as the timing and prep.
    Nope, further north. The East Coast guys drive 7-14 hrs to get to MIR, CA guys should expect to do the same.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    He takes jabs, he gets jabs taken at him. Such is life.
    Heh, true, if he deserved it. All he said was the tracks were better, not an insult to anyone.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Still looking for a quantitative measure for the "MIR/ATCO advantage", frankly there is none. It's just winter racing at a coastal track.
    Maybe let's stop looking at the tracks themselves and simply look at the conditions. Do these areas offer a density altitude advantage compared to California Winter? You bet.

    Will a car run faster in negative DA? You bet.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Nope, further north. The East Coast guys drive 7-14 hrs to get to MIR, CA guys should expect to do the same.
    I have done multiple 7 hour trips to Sac. I'm just not sure how much further North you want me to go.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is exactly my point. Why would one not want to go to AZ? Obviously because better times are going to be set at ATCO and MIR. If I could choose ANYWHERE to set a record time, I would choose one of those, in the Winter.
    You don't see -450' at Firebird, and you don't have the benefit of malfunctioning timing equipment adding 3-4mph to your trap either.

    I guess it's time for the OE crew to make a trip to MD then?

    No, I don't understand why people are making a comparison to other runs. My whole point of bringing up the DA and that this is a West Coast record is because the conditions matter. For some reason, some guys are taking this negatively which I don't understand. Maybe MHP guys are just used to the fights on MBW?
    Actually I think Sammy brought up the 60-130 comparison.

    Conditions matter you're right and guess what, OE's car was running in -450' DA and went 11.1@125, MHPs car ran in +1250' DA and went 10.78#131 with dozens of other passes to back it. Which one is more impressive to you?

    MHP guys don't get into fights on MBW anymore because the numbers speak for themselves.

    I will be honest, this whole east coast/west coast thing is a joke. You're either number #1 in the world or you're not. End of story.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Heh, true, if he deserved it. All he said was the tracks were better, not an insult to anyone.
    He reaps what he sews.

    Maybe let's stop looking at the tracks themselves and simply look at the conditions. Do these areas offer a density altitude advantage compared to California Winter? You bet.
    Sticky stop generalizing, we're talking about a -450' day vs a +1250' day. We have exact dates and data, why generalize?? You are trying to make this far more complex than it needs to be. If you correct OE's numbers the trap will go down and the ET will go up. The opposite is true of dodger's numbers.

    Will a car run faster in negative DA? You bet.
    We both agree to this but as pointed out above it seems like you don't want to concede the fact that someone else ran quicker/faster in significantly worse air.

    I have done multiple 7 hour trips to Sac. I'm just not sure how much further North you want me to go.
    You live on the West coast, you must know what tracks are fast out there. I'm not sure where in CA you are but you may have to drive 14 hrs just like some of the MIR guys.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    You don't see -450' at Firebird, and you don't have the benefit of malfunctioning timing equipment adding 3-4mph to your trap either.

    I guess it's time for the OE crew to make a trip to MD then?
    No, why? It is simply important to point out that different regions will produce different results. Would not be fair to compare Firebird to Atco right?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    ctually I think Sammy brought up the 60-130 comparison.

    Conditions matter you're right and guess what, OE's car was running in -450' DA and went 11.1@125, MHPs car ran in +1250' DA and went 10.78#131 with dozens of other passes to back it. Which one is more impressive to you?

    MHP guys don't get into fights on MBW anymore because the numbers speak for themselves.

    I will be honest, this whole east coast/west coast thing is a joke. You're either number #1 in the world or you're not. End of story.
    Absolutely true, you either have the fastest time or you don't and that is how you have to play the game. So, for guys on the West Coast their best choice is Sac.

    Yes, an MHP car also ran around 11.19 I believe in -1500. These aren't apples to apples comparisons. We just need to look at the conditions to get a better idea. Only way to have a true comparison is to actually run heads up, same time, same place. We are smart enough to interpret the conditions and realize they are not absolutes. That is why it is pointed out this time is a West Coast time.

    I'm glad to hear that, for a while I heard the stories about MHP clients being silenced despite the great results which is ridiculous.
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    Track prep a little vht and some drs really don't need much more in these cars!
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Sticky stop generalizing, we're talking about a -450' day vs a +1250' day. We have exact dates and data, why generalize?? You are trying to make this far more complex than it needs to be. If you correct OE's numbers the trap will go down and the ET will go up. The opposite is true of dodger's numbers.
    I'm not really trying to do anything other than say I believe MIR and ATCO are in great areas for drag racing due to favorable conditions.

    Due to the California climate, Sac will never see the potential that is available at MIR on certain days. Obviously every run at MIR is not in -3000 DA.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    We both agree to this but as pointed out above it seems like you don't want to concede the fact that someone else ran quicker/faster in significantly worse air.
    What are you talking about? The front page has the announcement for the fastest times on it currently which are from MHP, which is a premier vendor here. What do you mean don't want to concede? There is no comparison being drawn here, there is not even a desire for that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    You live on the West coast, you must know what tracks are fast out there. I'm not sure where in CA you are but you may have to drive 14 hrs just like some of the MIR guys.
    I think most people know I have never been one to have an aversion to driving to a quick track. That is the reason I go from LA to Sacramento to begin with. If there is a faster track than Sac within 14 hours, please, let me know.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No, why? It is simply important to point out that different regions will produce different results. Would not be fair to compare Firebird to Atco right?
    No it would not however geography means squat if you have DA numbers to compare with, and we do. DA takes into account base altitude as well, and we could easily compare numbers between the two cars at a standardized sea level altitude although the gap between them would simply grow larger.

    Absolutely true, you either have the fastest time or you don't and that is how you have to play the game. So, for guys on the West Coast their best choice is Sac.
    Sac with an "*" lol. If MIR had faulty timing equipment the East Coast guys would go to Cecil Co, ATCO, Rockingham, etc. If you're going for credibility why choose a venue with faulty timing equipment? I don't get it.

    Yes, an MHP car also ran around 11.9 I believe in -1500. These aren't apples to apples comparisons. We just need to look at the conditions to get a better idea. Only way to have a true comparison is to actually run heads up, same time, same place. We are smart enough to interpret the conditions and realize they are not absolutes. That is why it is pointed out this time is a West Coast time.
    Which MHP car was that? They have 4 running in the 11s (last I check that's more than any other tuner by 3 cars) with tuning/DRs including both positive and negative DA at tracks around the world.

    The West Coast vs East Coast thing is like ebonics, it simply should not be tolerated, C63s are C63s whether they are running in negative DA on the West Coast or positive DA on the East Coast or vice versa. Just note the weather conditions with the pass and group them all into 1. Or we could correct all times in which case dodger goes 10.60@134.

    I'm glad to hear that, for a while I heard the stories about MHP clients being silenced despite the great results which is ridiculous.
    Me as well, MBW is going down the tubes and I think everyone knows that as well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mthis Click here to enlarge
    That sounds like a nice setup. Who's car supers? What 17's did u guys chose?
    Super will be there, at least we should be an even match. He has almost the same setup, and also the evo rotors. ACGSD is looking for some 17" rims, I think HRE is about to release a 17" R40. I guess I'm gonna have to get a roll bar, as I should be close or below 11.5

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I have one thong to say get in your cars drive cross country and run at Mir or atco.. If not run your tracks and stop arguing what's better.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not really trying to do anything other than say I believe MIR and ATCO are in great areas for drag racing due to favorable conditions.

    Due to the California climate, Sac will never see the potential that is available at MIR on certain days. Obviously every run at MIR is not in -3000 DA.
    They are some of many great tracks in this country, believe it or not HRP gets -1500' DA in the winter with tailwinds so it's also a very fast track despite being centrally located in a warmer area.

    On the days in question however, and as you stated, should be noted (details) +1250 (actually 1150 for Mike's run) vs -450' is something to be noted.


    What are you talking about? The front page has the announcement for the fastest times on it currently which are from MHP, which is a premier vendor here. What do you mean don't want to concede? There is no comparison being drawn here, there is not even a desire for that.
    The comparison started with the 60-130 time in this post and went on from there, I was not even a part of it until it became obvious to the point it is now. OE is also a premiere vendor and it is clear they are attempting to compete with MHP. Good for them, competition is a good thing, but let's not muddy the water with East vs West Coast especially when the main factor behind the segregating the stats is weather and again it was role reversal time in that dept here.

    I think most people know I have never been one to have an aversion to driving to a quick track. That is the reason I go from LA to Sacramento to begin with. If there is a faster track than Sac within 14 hours, please, let me know.
    What's your Zip?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
    I have one thong to say get in your cars drive cross country and run at Mir or atco.. If not run your tracks and stop arguing what's better.
    End of story.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Sac with an "*" lol. If MIR had faulty timing equipment the East Coast guys would go to Cecil Co, ATCO, Rockingham, etc. If you're going for credibility why choose a venue with faulty timing equipment? I don't get it
    You know what, I don't really understand it either but I have had to play this stupid game as well. I have run at Famoso and then had to make the trek to Sac because everyone else was going to Sac to inflate their numbers. It would really solve everyone's problem if the track owners would maintain the track properly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    No it would not however geography means squat if you have DA numbers to compare with, and we do. DA takes into account base altitude as well, and we could easily compare numbers between the two cars at a standardized sea level altitude although the gap between them would simply grow larger.
    Exactly, but to have DA you need to know where it was run and when. So, important to point out where this took place.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Which MHP car was that? They have 4 running in the 11s (last I check that's more than any other tuner by 3 cars) with tuning/DRs including both positive and negative DA at tracks around the world.

    The West Coast vs East Coast thing is like ebonics, it simply should not be tolerated, C63s are C63s whether they are running in negative DA on the West Coast or positive DA on the East Coast or vice versa. Just note the weather conditions with the pass and group them all into 1. Or we could correct all times in which case dodger goes 10.60@134.
    It was a typo, I was referring to the low 11 second run by Mthis. I meant to do 11.19, just didn't notice I was missing the extra 1.

    There really is no West Coast vs. East Coast thing. It simply is reality that the majority of times run by tuned C63's have been on the East Coast. There really weren't any people active in C63 tuning going to the track here on the West Coast until now. The cars run what they run, but let's look at this as a positive achievement for the other half of the country not a desire to create come rivalry.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Barfly Click here to enlarge
    Me as well, MBW is going down the tubes and I think everyone knows that as well.
    I think so, but I also think many are unaware as to the alternatives. Google will take care of that in due time, my next focus is the SEO implementation of BenzBoost.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Even Money Click here to enlarge
    Super will be there, at least we should be an even match. He has almost the same setup, and also the evo rotors. ACGSD is looking for some 17" rims, I think HRE is about to release a 17" R40. I guess I'm gonna have to get a roll bar, as I should be close or below 11.5
    Are they strict with rollbars there?

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