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Thread: Le Mans vs Formula 1 car comparison

              
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    Le Mans vs Formula 1 car comparison

    For you noobs

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    I don't know enough about the LMP rules, but the F1 rules stated here are incorrect.
    While the racelength is indeed 300km + 1 round, the engines used will have to do at least 2 races for the teams to make it through the season. There is a restriction of 8 engines for the season, and there are 20 races in this upcoming season. Changing more engines in a season results in a 10-place penalty on the starting grid of the race. Using 9th and 10th engine in one weekend results in an additional penalty for the next race. Also the gearboxrules are upped from 4 races per gearbox to 5 races.

    The minimum weight of an F1 car at the end of the race is upped from 620 to 640kg's in 2011, due to the return of the KERS system.

    Since 2010 the slicks are again non grooved. There are 2 different compounds available per race. Tyre allocation has been reduced for 2011, with 11 rather than 14 sets of dry-weather tyres available to each driver per race weekend. Drivers will receive three sets (two prime, one option) to use in P1 and P2 and must return one set after each session. A further eight sets will then be at their disposal for the rest of the weekend, although one set of each specification must be handed back before qualifying.
    If a driver fails to use both specifications of dry-weather tyres during a (dry) race, they will be excluded from the results. If a (dry) race is suspended and can’t be restarted, and a driver has failed to use both specifications, 30 seconds will be added to the driver’s race time.
    Besides the slicks ther are intermediate and monsoontires (full wets) available for each driver.
    The tire supplier in 2011 is Pirelli.

    Horsepower numbers in F1 are a guestimation.

    Although the topspeed of an F1 car can reach 225 mph, these speeds were reached on circuits like the old Hockenheim circuit. In the current F1 calender there are no circuits where these speeds can be reached, so the cars are geared for lower topspeeds, typical 200 to 210 mph.
    Last edited by DavidV; 02-06-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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    Awesome thread, I am going to dig up some tech info on F1 engines.
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    So on a tight circuit F1 car would dominate but on a longer course like Le Mans the LM's would win if these two were to go head to head, right?

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    F1 cars are really the pinnacle of auto racing today. Two different classes, LM cars are a little bit heavier according to regulation. F1 cars are about half the weight with a little more power so, understandably faster.


    But the engine technology, it's just something to behold... Renault, Ferrari, Honda F1 racing engines are ridiculous machines that defy physics. Im sure some of you know, they are 2.4 liter NA V8s that rev to 19,000 RPM and produce about 700 HP. They idle at like 5000 RPM because the cams are designed for topend performance only (huge overlaps and tight lobe seperation etc...) if i remember correctly? I have to find some more info on them but those are the kind of numbers they deal with.

    Oh yea the piston speeds are insane too, as is the oil used for lubrication. Here is a video of a Renault engine hitting like 22,000 RPM.



    Listen to this symphony of perfection.

    note where the fuel is being sprayed...



    Here is more F1 engine testing, they push these machines to the very limit. This is a cosworth hitting 20,000 RPM like nothing.



    look closely at the very end when he brings it down to idle, at 9,000 RPM...
    Last edited by DBFIU; 02-07-2011 at 11:41 PM.
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    oh here is what the Audi V12 TDI R10 sounds like,



    Epic engine sound
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    So on a tight circuit F1 car would dominate but on a longer course like Le Mans the LM's would win if these two were to go head to head, right?
    No

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
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    No
    Why not, aren't the LM cars capable of much higher speeds?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Why not, aren't the LM cars capable of much higher speeds?
    Formula one cars can go faster than 210mph, actually faster than 250 but its not geared to reach that speed. They also accelerate much quicker than LM cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
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    Formula one cars can go faster than 210mph, actually faster than 250 but its not geared to reach that speed. They also accelerate much quicker than LM cars.
    Well, I would like to see them go at it like on a course like the 24 hours of Le Mans.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Well, I would like to see them go at it like on a course like the 24 hours of Le Mans.
    Not going to happen

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
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    Not going to happen
    I know, it's a dream, would be cool though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Well, I would like to see them go at it like on a course like the 24 hours of Le Mans.
    What are you saying you want to see them race one lap at Circuit de la Sarthe or you want to see them run a 24 hour race.

    I would so like to see a F1 car ripping down the mulsanne straight. It have to be on the verge of blowing up before it hit the chicane.

    It is already nuts listening to them on the back straight at Spa after they rip through Eau Rouge (best corner in all of racing).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
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    What are you saying you want to see them race one lap at Circuit de la Sarthe or you want to see them run a 24 hour race.

    I would so like to see a F1 car ripping down the mulsanne straight. It have to be on the verge of blowing up before it hit the chicane.

    It is already nuts listening to them on the back straight at Spa after they rip through Eau Rouge (best corner in all of racing).

    It is an amazing corner. The speed those cars carry through that corner is unbelievable

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I know, it's a dream, would be cool though.
    No dreams ;-)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I know, it's a dream, would be cool though.
    As I stated above, the F1 engines are now build to last a maximum of 1000km (3 races including quialify and 3 trainings sessions).They do not last much longer than that, most of them won't even make this distance. Before the engine restrictions this was just 1 race. Engines that lasted much longer were considered too slow. In the turbo age of the 80's they went through 3 engines in a weekend.
    An F1 engine is never even gonna last 24 hours, it will not do this. If it could do 24 hours, it would not be an F1 engine.
    It will probably not survive full throttle to reach the end of the Mulsane straight, with only 2 chicanes to slow it down.
    You can do fun things with such an engine though.


    Difference between F1 and FIA GT through Eau rouge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
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    But the engine technology, it's just something to behold... Renault, Ferrari, Honda F1 racing engines are ridiculous machines that defy physics. Im sure some of you know, they are 2.4 liter NA V8s that rev to 19,000 RPM and produce about 700 HP. They idle at like 5000 RPM because the cams are designed for topend performance only (huge overlaps and tight lobe seperation etc...) if i remember correctly? I have to find some more info on them but those are the kind of numbers they deal with.

    look closely at the very end when he brings it down to idle, at 9,000 RPM...
    F1 engines need to be pre-heated to 80C before they can be started.
    You can not turn the engine below those temperatures. The pistons are seized into the cylinders below that temperature.
    The revlimit since 2009 for an F1 engine is 18.000 rpm.
    they are not allowed to exceed that.
    F1 engines have a very small powerband. Normally between 15.000 and 18.000 rpm.
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    A cool little quip that is probably known to most e46 m3 fanatics; the piston speeds in the s54b32 (very long stroke + high operating speeds) engine are over 24 meters/second - a mere meter/second away from the current array of f1 engines. i think the only production car that beats this is the s2000 - although i am not 100% sure on that.

    although the "new" m3 has a higher piston speed, the shortened stroke gives for a slower mean piston speed (not sure of the value).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
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    As I stated above, the F1 engines are now build to last a maximum of 1000km (3 races including quialify and 3 trainings sessions).They do not last much longer than that, most of them won't even make this distance. Before the engine restrictions this was just 1 race. Engines that lasted much longer were considered too slow. In the turbo age of the 80's they went through 3 engines in a weekend.
    An F1 engine is never even gonna last 24 hours, it will not do this. If it could do 24 hours, it would not be an F1 engine.
    It will probably not survive full throttle to reach the end of the Mulsane straight, with only 2 chicanes to slow it down.
    You can do fun things with such an engine though.
    I'm not saying have them race for 24 hours, saying have them go to head on a long course like that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
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    A cool little quip that is probably known to most e46 m3 fanatics; the piston speeds in the s54b32 (very long stroke + high operating speeds) engine are over 24 meters/second - a mere meter/second away from the current array of f1 engines. i think the only production car that beats this is the s2000 - although i am not 100% sure on that.

    although the "new" m3 has a higher piston speed, the shortened stroke gives for a slower mean piston speed (not sure of the value).
    Read: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...ower-potential

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not saying have them race for 24 hours, saying have them go to head on a long course like that.
    In that case the F1 car would definitely win.
    On a normal F1 circuit the speeddifference between an F1 car and a LMP1 car is give or take 6 seconds
    With low downforce, say the old Hockenheim setup, and high gearing the F1 car is 300kg lighter with more horsepower.
    It would become a boring race before the first righthandturn Click here to enlarge
    F1 car would be over a 2 seconds ahead before the mulsane straight.
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    The Formula 1 car would destroy the LMP1 car on any race course. Its not even a match for the F1 car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
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    The Formula 1 car would destroy the LMP1 car on any race course. Its not even a match for the F1 car.
    Oh, for sure.

    For example look at Monza, one of the fastest tracks on the planet. Basically all straights and chicanes.


    Monza qualifying times for F1 and Le Mans Series:

    Ferrari F10 - 1:21.962

    Peugeot 908 HDi - 1:31.528



    Autodromo Nazionale Monza track map


    Click here to enlarge

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