Close

View Poll Results: Has BMW slipped up in enthusiasts eyes vs. Mercedes?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • BMW has not slipped, it is better than ever.

    15 39.47%
  • BMW has slipped while Mercedes has gotten stronger.

    23 60.53%
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 142
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    284
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I think up until the E92 M3 BMW has been top dog, no one can refute that. But everything afterwards is going to be complete garbage.

    Mercedes has changed the game.
    Actually the new turbo Merc v8 puts out mor than the bmW turbo v8. But thats the way its always been. BMW does something then years later evryone comes with something to beat it.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    284
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    Bi turbo s54 wouldn't be so bad in the next m3... Make it revv out to 9k and they should have mb beat
    3.8l s54 turbo is the only way to go!

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    284
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, the GTS really isn't all that impressive. Plus, it isn't cheap, and either way, it would be outgunned vs. the C as well.
    HUH? ISnt the gTS Ring time a second or so off the Porsche GT3 time?

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    251
    Rep Points
    107.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Like I said, when comparably priced MB's are beating their BMW counterpart around tracks, not just horsepower, let me know.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Like I said, when comparably priced MB's are beating their BMW counterpart around tracks, not just horsepower, let me know.
    which MB beats BMW in a track?

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    251
    Rep Points
    107.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    That's my point. They don't. I suppose it depends on the track, but from everything I've read and seen, the BMWs are better on a road course.

    On a drag strip or street race, it's probably different.

    Guess it depends what kind of enthusiast you are.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    What it is, is that BMW is chasing Mercedes in the luxury departement so their building the cars softer they way Mercedes have been successful. For Mercedes, its the opposite. Their chasing BMW in the performance departement, so their building the cars to be faster and harder.
    But BMW has moved downscale, so are they chasing Mercedes in the luxury department or Toyota in the volume department?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    IMO Mercedes is building cars with big engines and such but they still are not on par with all around performance. Mercedes = German muscle car when it comes to performance.
    This is what is changing, the Black Series was a major step and some could say Mercedes is starting to build better all around cars. When they start offering DCT's in their AMG's it will be interesting.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    251
    Rep Points
    107.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But BMW has moved downscale, so are they chasing Mercedes in the luxury department or Toyota in the volume department?



    This is what is changing, the Black Series was a major step and some could say Mercedes is starting to build better all around cars. When they start offering DCT's in their AMG's it will be interesting.

    The Black Series, CSL, GTS, etc. are all very small production numbers. They're a very tiny part of a bigger picture. I doubt they're huge money makers for the manufacturers, but just something exciting to put out there for a few select buyers.

    Being that they're only produced in such small numbers and not much profit is made, it seems BMW has chosen to focus their efforts elsewhere. Selling more cars to different audiences.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    The Black Series, CSL, GTS, etc. are all very small production numbers. They're a very tiny part of a bigger picture. I doubt they're huge money makers for the manufacturers, but just something exciting to put out there for a few select buyers.
    They are image builders and reflect the companies ideals. They are models which are a matter of pride and designed to compete against the best of the best.

    Mercedes at least respects their enthusiasts enough to roll them out worldwide. Also, Mercedes offers real supercars, BMW doesn't. That is a major issue in of itself.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Being that they're only produced in such small numbers and not much profit is made, it seems BMW has chosen to focus their efforts elsewhere. Selling more cars to different audiences.
    Translation: Sell outs

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    251
    Rep Points
    107.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They are image builders and reflect the companies ideals. They are models which are a matter of pride and designed to compete against the best of the best.

    Mercedes at least respects their enthusiasts enough to roll them out worldwide. Also, Mercedes offers real supercars, BMW doesn't. That is a major issue in of itself.



    Translation: Sell outs
    They're in the business of selling cars. So, yeah, I suppose they're sell outs.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    They're in the business of selling cars. So, yeah, I suppose they're sell outs and profits are up.
    Absolutely, and all they lose is respect, honor, and integrity.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    251
    Rep Points
    107.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Absolutely, and all they lose is respect, honor, and integrity.
    From you. One of millions.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    From you. One of millions.
    From themselves as well.

    Most people probably don't care but shouldn't BMW care about those that are most loyal to them? Shouldn't they respect their enthusiasts or can they dismiss them since they know they can generate profit elsewhere with people who just want to lease the latest and cheapest car with a BMW badge on it? BMW hasn't just taken hits to their image from a small group, they have lost quite a bit of respect but $ means more to them now. What about pride?

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    oh come on Sticky , you've been so negative recently
    yeah BMW did some bad moves but it's still Bmw

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    oh come on Sticky , you've been so negative recently
    yeah BMW did some bad moves but it's still Bmw
    Not negative, I'm just disappointed. Mercedes is doing more for the enthusiast than BMW is, hard to respect BMW when while Mercedes is thinking about adding more performance models BMW is trying to sell us on a FWD city car.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not negative, I'm just disappointed. Mercedes is doing more for the enthusiast than BMW is, hard to respect BMW when while Mercedes is thinking about adding more performance models BMW is trying to sell us on a FWD city car.
    Yes , but look MB has A-Class , B-Class ,RWD is Bmw style i know but even they can't resist the large market of FWD city cars.
    You are disappointed about next gen M3 ? we can't talk about how it's gonna be with %100 , all we can do is waiting
    Let's hope M-Power goes in the right direction

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    251
    Rep Points
    107.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    From themselves as well.

    Most people probably don't care but shouldn't BMW care about those that are most loyal to them? Shouldn't they respect their enthusiasts or can they dismiss them since they know they can generate profit elsewhere with people who just want to lease the latest and cheapest car with a BMW badge on it? BMW hasn't just taken hits to their image from a small group, they have lost quite a bit of respect but $ means more to them now. What about pride?

    Who is BMW dismissing? Dragsters and street racers?

    What are you even talking about? Your front page shows a race where a bunch of M3s pretty much cleaned house taking 4 of the top 5 spots. Don't see one enthusiast racing a Mercedes Benz in there. Where's the enthusiasm?

    You're a drag racer. You're realizing BMW doesn't make the best dragsters. You're mad and lashing out. Drive the car on a road course, what it was meant for, then talk about it not being an enthusiast's car. Especially after driving a Benz.

    Benz is making more performance models and BMW isn't? 135i, 1M, 335i, X6M, X5M. All new performance models within the last 5 or so years.

    Name the comparably priced MBenz that beats the M3 around a road course.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Who is BMW dismissing? Dragsters and street racers?

    What are you even talking about? Your front page shows a race where a bunch of M3s pretty much cleaned house taking 4 of the top 5 spots. Don't see one enthusiast racing a Mercedes Benz in there. Where's the enthusiasm?

    You're a drag racer. You're realizing BMW doesn't make the best dragsters. You're mad and lashing out. Drive the car on a road course, what it was meant for, then talk about it not being an enthusiast's car. Especially after driving a Benz.

    Benz is making more performance models and BMW isn't? 135i, 1M, 335i, X6M, X5M. All new performance models within the last 5 or so years.

    Name the comparably priced MBenz that beats the M3 around a road course.
    Sticky with all my respect i with him
    Performance isn't the whole thing , i said it many times .

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Who is BMW dismissing? Dragsters and street racers?
    Their history, ideals, and principles as well as their most loyal clientele. Frankly, going to turbo motors is what the "dragsters and street racers" would want.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    What are you even talking about? Your front page shows a race where a bunch of M3s pretty much cleaned house taking 4 of the top 5 spots. Don't see one enthusiast racing a Mercedes Benz in there. Where's the enthusiasm?
    You don't see the difference between motorsports with RACE CARS and production cars? Mercedes has an SLS and SLR. BMW has what?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    You're a drag racer. You're realizing BMW doesn't make the best dragsters. You're mad and lashing out. Drive the car on a road course, what it was meant for, then talk about it not being an enthusiast's car. Especially after driving a Benz.
    No, I'm a BMW enthusiast who knows and respects their history. If I was just interested in drag racing why in the world would I want an NA BMW motor?

    Damn straight I'm mad at BMW. I'm mad at BMW for selling out their principles. I'm mad at them for lying to us. I'm mad at them for diluting the M brand. I'm mad at them for completely selling their soul.

    I use my M car how I please but that has no bearing on the changes BMW is making. Everyone is slowly seeing what they are becoming which is a volume auto maker concerned solely with profit. They used to produce ultimate driving machines, remember?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Benz is making more performance models and BMW isn't? 135i, 1M, 335i, X6M, X5M. All new performance models within the last 5 or so years.
    The X5 and X6 M aren't examples of what an M car should be. They are examples of selling out. AMG and M should be different, but now they are becoming the same thing. Stick the same motor in everything and call it a day, wow, interesting.

    Don't get me started on the pile of crap that is the 1M Coupe. An M badge on a 135 with some M3 parts? Seriously?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Name the comparably priced MBenz that beats the M3 around a road course.
    Name a comparatively priced BMW that beats a Mitsubishi EVO or Subrau around a road course. If going for price per performance BMW is not exactly the best example. However, name a BMW that beats an SLS around a road course regardless of price. Can you? Same with the SLR. The problem is there isn't one, now is there? What about the SL65 Black series? CLK63 Black series? BMW performance ends at the M3 while Mercedes has you covered from top to bottom and is now even making far more hardcore models. Things are definitely changing with Mercedes embracing the enthusiast far more. BMW has fallen a bit and I'm not the only one who thinks so, that is the reality of it.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    Sticky with all my respect i with him
    Performance isn't the whole thing , i said it many times .
    So M is for what? Marketing?

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So M is for what? Marketing?
    M is for M-Sport
    don't think about X5 M,X6 M because they are junk. But what about others? You don't like 1M but what about others?you hate it because it has N54 engine , come on man that car has to be cheap.
    1M was supposed to be limited just to 1500 units , but buyers made M division to make more than that , that's not fair to say they want marketing.
    You care about history? who doesn't ?You care about NA engines? now we are living on a planet that everyone thinks Prius is sent by God and M6 is devils ride just because it can rev to 9,000 rpm ,i think FI is the only way to survive

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    you hate it because it has N54 engine , come on man that car has to be cheap.
    What is the point of an M model then? Body kit? It isn't supposed to be cheap and the N54 isn't an M motor. That is definitely an issue.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    don't think about X5 M,X6 M because they are junk
    Well if you admit they are junk then you admit there is a problem. You can't just dismiss it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    1M was supposed to be limited just to 1500 units , but buyers made M division to make more than that , that's not fair to say they want marketing.
    Actually, you answer your own question here. It was supposed to be limited, fine, but now there is no limit and they are going to sell as many as they can. That is marketing, they played us.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    You care about history? who doesn't ?You care about NA engines? now we are living on a planet that everyone thinks Prius is sent by God and M6 is devils ride just because it can rev to 9,000 rpm ,i think FI is the only way to survive
    I understand they say they had to do it. Yet, Lambo, Porshce, Ferrari, and even Ford and GM can make awesome NA motors. BMW can't? I think they just saw the bottom line and decided to go for profit. That is why the 1M has the same damn motor as the 135 with no changes.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What is the point of an M model then? Body kit? It isn't supposed to be cheap and the N54 isn't an M motor. That is definitely an issue.



    Well if you admit they are junk then you admit there is a problem. You can't just dismiss it.



    Actually, you answer your own question here. It was supposed to be limited, fine, but now there is no limit and they are going to sell as many as they can. That is marketing, they played us.



    I understand they say they had to do it. Yet, Lambo, Porshce, Ferrari, and even Ford and GM can make awesome NA motors. BMW can't? I think they just saw the bottom line and decided to go for profit. That is why the 1M has the same damn motor as the 135 with no changes.
    1. look at suspension , do you see anything 1-Series in that? look at the Nurburgring time , 8:12 so it must be something M in that
    2. X5 M is a good car , but it would be better if it hadn't M badge on it. I agree that was a big mistake putting m logo on a 4WD with auto trans
    3. i don't know what i have to say , whatever i say i won't convince you
    4. Lamborghini and Ferrari make large NA engines , ok but they put those engines in cars with huge price tags so it means their buyers are rich
    but what about BMW ? Customers aren't that rich so they can't pay the extra tax on engines ( in Europe for extra displacement you have to pay tax , huge ones)
    so FI is the only solution

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -226.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Plus Ford and GM buyers in europe are much less than M buyers , so they don't give a thing about displacement

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,826
    Rep Points
    31,567.3
    Mentioned
    2065 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    1. look at suspension , do you see anything 1-Series in that? look at the Nurburgring time , 8:12 so it must be something M in that
    Yes, M3 suspension bits. An M car is the whole package though including the motor. BMW can now get away with sticking motors they already have in a car and calling it an M. It means less development cost for them, greater profits, and we lose out.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    4. Lamborghini and Ferrari make large NA engines , ok but they put those engines in cars with huge price tags so it means their buyers are rich
    but what about BMW ? Customers aren't that rich so they can't pay the extra tax on engines ( in Europe for extra displacement you have to pay tax , huge ones)
    so FI is the only solution
    The M5 and M6 aren't cheap, $100k, and cost a lot of fuel up. I don't think I would call their owners poor and the M5/M6 V10 has greater displacement than the Ferrari V8's. That was the great thing about BMW, you could get high revving motors on the level of Ferrari and Porsche in cars that were cheaper. The M3 V8 feels like a race bred motor.

    It isn't a matter of the customers not being able to afford it, M3's, M5',s and M6's sold. It is that BMW doesn't want to chew in to their bottom line when they realized they could get away with simply adding more boost or even now, just giving you the same thing they already have (1M).

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •