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    Any C63 Supercharge kits in the pipeline?

    Has anyone heard, seen or read anything in this regard.
    Space looks hectic but would make one hell of a ride if it was achievable.

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    Any kits in the pipeline? Yes, there sure are.

    Funny you mention this though, MHP and I were discussing the feasibility in another thread. MHP states that a supercharger will not be possible on the M156.

    There currently are no superchargers although something was said about Brabus having one?
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    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    couldnt you just stick a roots style blower on top and sell it with a new hood?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
    couldnt you just stick a roots style blower on top and sell it with a new hood?
    In theory, yes.
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    This was taken from another thread and has to do with the topic:

    I kind of want to expand on this topic though as I still don't understand what is stopping it. I still am thinking the S65 is more difficult than the M156, just that more companies seem to put out FI kits for BMW's.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP
    I know you do, however I'm not going to simply because I'm not here to educate the competition. I've actually told you quite a bit about this in private if you remember. An E90 M3 is far easier to apply FI to than a M156. Like I said, we looked into it back when I had my car and would've done it however as some will learn the hard way there is far more than 1 stumbling block. One example we've talked about before is the fact there is enough room for A/F and timing changes in the MSS60 than there is in the ME9.7, you don't need a piggyback or standalone to tune for FI on a E90 M3, completely unlike the M156.
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If requested by a hardware manufacturer of a forced induction kit for the 63 platform, then Powerchip would be happy to provide a software solution. When these type of kits are proposed, we normally require a commitment of 20 orders so it makes it difficult for most kit makers to afford.

    I think it would be an interesting project.

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    George,

    It's not feasible for several different reasons. Kleemann of Europe went bankrupt trying to build PD kits for these cars, which is where their larger throttle bodys come from--they were never meant for N/A use. Others have also tried and failed. There are just too many stumbling blocks. Anyone with knowledge has already given up and is working on an ulterior solution.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Any kits in the pipeline? Yes, there sure are.

    Funny you mention this though, MHP and I were discussing the feasibility in another thread. MHP states that a supercharger will not be possible on the M156.

    There currently are no superchargers although something was said about Brabus having one?
    Brabus was the only tuner to ever get FI to work on a M156 however the vehicle was never driven (show only) because of one of the stumbling blocks they encountered. The project cost them over a $1M and it was a ML63. Being Brabus removed one of the other large stumbling blocks, they just called Bosch and bam on their doorstep landed exactly what they needed to complete the software job. Yet another reason FI isn't going to happen for everyone besides them.

    Kleemann and MKB have tried and failed with superchargers.

  9. #9
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Brabus was the only tuner to ever get FI to work on a M156 however the vehicle was never driven (show only) because of one of the stumbling blocks they encountered. The project cost them over a $1M and it was a ML63. Being Brabus removed one of the other large stumbling blocks, they just called Bosch and bam on their doorstep landed exactly what they needed to complete the software job. Yet another reason FI isn't going to happen for everyone besides them.

    Kleemann and MKB have tried and failed with superchargers.
    So Kleemann was ruined by this? What about MKB?

    What did Bosch send Brabus? After spending $1M why would Brabus just abandon it?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So Kleemann was ruined by this? What about MKB?

    What did Bosch send Brabus? After spending $1M why would Brabus just abandon it?
    Im assuming it was because either they knew it could not work, or that the money(above and beyond what they had already spent) was not going to be able be recouped via sales.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    Im assuming it was because either they knew it could not work, or that the money(above and beyond what they had already spent) was not going to be able be recouped via sales.
    Just seems like a colossal waste.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So Kleemann was ruined by this? What about MKB?
    MKB is financially solid, however the supercharger project has been abandoned for some time now. Yes this was the straw that broke Kleemann of Europe's back. I spoke with the lead fabricator (hardware) of the project Hoarst about 6 mos ago (at that time he was working for a new employer) and he filled me in. T?hey succeeded with neither the hardware or software end.

    What did Bosch send Brabus? After spending $1M why would Brabus just abandon it?
    Special ECUs.

    Because it's better than wasting $2M. Click here to enlarge

    They found another hurdle that they couldn't fix.

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    there was a Brabus GL63 Biturbo back in Dubai autoshow and it was sold to an Arab sheikh and i think it still runs ,i'm not sure i have to say

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    i don't know but there was a Brabus GL63 Biturbo back in Dubai autoshow and it was sold to an Arab sheikh and i think it still runs , no sure i have to say
    Anyone tell him a modded G55 might be more cost effective?
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    I saw the Brabus twin turbo motor on a stand. I think the development costs are blown out of proportion. Understandably there are serious space concerns but if something can fit I do not think engineering can go to such a amount. If a custom kit can be made for say US$30,000 without tuning I do not see how that cannot be turned into a production kit. It is obvious they used the ML as a basis due to space. This all assuming the hardware fits. I have been through this when I supercharged my E36 M3 in 1994 and turbocharged it in 1997 and the production costs at least locally are not crazy and could be reproduced on a mass scale.
    ESS has apparently bought a C63 and advertised the fact on their Facebook page. When I questioned them if they will go the supercharged route their answer was more as a hint of yes than a solid yes. So they left the door open to exit, similar to what they have done for the past two years with the E60 M5 that has been postponed to the point of having as similar release date to the F10 M5.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    similar to what they have done for the past two years with the E60 M5 that has been postponed to the point of having as similar release date to the F10 M5.
    Yes, the postponement is a bit a frustrating but clearly has to be a function of the tuning as the hardware has been replicated by more than one tuner.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, the postponement is a bit a frustrating but clearly has to be a function of the tuning as the hardware has been replicated by more than one tuner.
    Frustration is a understatement as many people held on to their cars due to the kit and to our surprise the M3 V8 kit gets released first. Its not nice to hang carrots in front of the consumers in my opinion.

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Frustration is a understatement as many people held on to their cars due to the kit and to our surprise the M3 V8 kit gets released first. Its not nice to hang carrots in front of the consumers in my opinion.
    You do raise a very good point, one that few call them on.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Anyone tell him a modded G55 might be more cost effective?
    of course not , because their definition of cost effective is different ; more expensive is more effective and that's it

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HeroSina Click here to enlarge
    of course not , because their definition of cost effective is different ; more expensive is more effective and that's it
    Well said Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I saw the Brabus twin turbo motor on a stand. I think the development costs are blown out of proportion. Understandably there are serious space concerns but if something can fit I do not think engineering can go to such a amount. If a custom kit can be made for say US$30,000 without tuning I do not see how that cannot be turned into a production kit. It is obvious they used the ML as a basis due to space. This all assuming the hardware fits. I have been through this when I supercharged my E36 M3 in 1994 and turbocharged it in 1997 and the production costs at least locally are not crazy and could be reproduced on a mass scale.
    ESS has apparently bought a C63 and advertised the fact on their Facebook page. When I questioned them if they will go the supercharged route their answer was more as a hint of yes than a solid yes. So they left the door open to exit, similar to what they have done for the past two years with the E60 M5 that has been postponed to the point of having as similar release date to the F10 M5.
    As far as fabrication, Brabus is known to go over the edge a bit so I agree, $1M is a bit ridiculous but aren't all their major projects really? Click here to enlarge

    With that being said, even if you could hit a $30k price point without tuning, how many C63 owners ($70k cars) are going to spend 43% more (plus the cost of tuning) than the cost of the car to put twins on it. The amount of AMG owners that mod is tiny by itself, finding those that want to drop $30k on a kit like that is another story altogether, and this is assuming they can get the car to run.

    Then factor in the gains we can net N/A, which I'm going to say right now are going to be greater than slapping FI on that motor and praying it could ever hold 4psi of intercooled boost (if they make it that far), and it makes even less sense.

    I think a lot of new C63 owners, shops included, are in for a rude awakening.

    ps--was talking to a shop in Norway that claimed the ESS V10/S85 supercharger had been released in 2 stages, 650 and 725? Supposedly the 725 was rw. Owner seemed very knowledgeable to take it fwiw. He said he rode in the car and it was no doubt fast. They (shop in Norway) also have a tube frame chassis car made to look like a E90 M3 stuffed with a twin supercharged S85 running on alcohol making 2100HP. Sounded interesting...
    Last edited by MHP LLC; 12-03-2010 at 12:53 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    As far as fabrication, Brabus is known to go over the edge a bit so I agree, $1M is a bit ridiculous but aren't all their major projects really? Click here to enlarge

    With that being said, even if you could hit a $30k price point without tuning, how many C63 owners ($70k cars) are going to spend 43% more (plus the cost of tuning) than the cost of the car to put twins on it. The amount of AMG owners that mod is tiny by itself, finding those that want to drop $30k on a kit like that is another story altogether, and this is assuming they can get the car to run.

    Then factor in the gains we can net N/A, which I'm going to say right now are going to be greater than slapping FI on that motor and praying it could ever hold 4psi of intercooled boost (if they make it that far), and it makes even less sense.

    I think a lot of new C63 owners, shops included, are in for a rude awakening.

    ps--was talking to a shop in Norway that claimed the ESS V10/S85 supercharger had been released in 2 stages, 650 and 725? Supposedly the 725 was rw. Owner seemed very knowledgeable to take it fwiw. He said he rode in the car and it was no doubt fast. They (shop in Norway) also have a tube frame chassis car made to look like a E90 M3 stuffed with a twin supercharged S85 running on alcohol making 2100HP. Sounded interesting...
    You mist my point. The US$30,000 is the development cost not the kit price.
    I think Brabus inflates for Sheik status so they can rape.
    ESS is only releasing figures now on M5board saying release should be late spring early summer.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    You mist my point. The US$30,000 is the development cost not the kit price.
    Wow? 30 grand for months of research, design, engineering, testing, and then tuning? Its going to cost more than 30k just to pay the engineers for those months of design, and testing.

    Hell I would wager that Whipple spends more than that for the development of their new mustang blowers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    You mist my point. The US$30,000 is the development cost not the kit price.
    I think Brabus inflates for Sheik status so they can rape.
    ESS is only releasing figures now on M5board saying release should be late spring early summer.
    I agree with Mike, no way that all gets done for $30K unless it's a junkyard build.

    Kits will have to be priced in the 25-30K range due to volume, just a bad idea all around.

    Both Kleemann and MKB have spent exponentially more than $30k and have gotten nowhere.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    . They (shop in Norway) also have a tube frame chassis car made to look like a E90 M3 stuffed with a twin supercharged S85 running on alcohol making 2100HP. Sounded interesting...
    it's not supercharged , it's turbocharged


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