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  1. #1
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    AMG short teaser video on the new M178 4.0 liter bi-turbo V8 explaining the engineering choices

    This is a great piece of marketing from AMG. The M178 V8 is making some big headlines as AMG finally released the info confirming many of the reports over the past couple years. AMG clearly realizes how important this engine is and is presenting it to the world incredibly well. They started with the exhaust note sounds, then the specs, and now offer up this quick video overview. So what does this short video teach us?

    Click here to enlarge

    That Mercedes-AMG wants this motor to sit low and far back in the AMG GT chassis. The dry sumpy lubrication system allow the motor to sit 55mm lower than if it used a conventional system. Additionally, as the M178 is smaller at 4.0 liters than the M157 5.5 liter V8 many were clamoring for this lower center of gravity combined with a lighter motor means a car with better weight distribution and of course less weight on the nose.

    This is important as Mercedes is targeting the Porsche 911. By keeping weight balance toward the rear Mercedes will not allow the 911 to have a huge advantage thanks to its rear engine layout which pays dividends in traction off the line and braking performance. So Mercedes likely has a 49/51 front to rear weight balance going thanks to the dual clutch transmission transaxle setup that they are mimicking in the AMG GT from the SLS. The AMG GT will not suffer from the negatives of the 911 rear weight bias which usually means slower entry to an apex but quick exit speeds thanks to being able to get on the power earlier. It also means no problems with snap on oversteer. The AMG GT will be better balanced.

    Turbo spool should actually be better than the M157 despite the displacement disadvantage. Why? The M178 offers a 10.5:1 compression ratio whereas the M157 offers a 10.0:1. It is not just the compression ratio but the turbocharger manifold design which will affect spool and the M178 features shorter routing of the exhaust gases with its top mounted turbos. Mercedes built a very efficient design here clearly taking throttle response and spool for the track into account.

    This is going to be an exciting motor that will be with us for some time and a worthy successor to the great AMG engines that preceded it.


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    Looks like they're going to need this engine at full strength in the C63 to have a chance at competing with the M3/4 given recent developments Click here to enlarge

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    It's going to just use raw grunt like the previous generation did against the lighter and more efficient M3. It's really going to be the exact same thing over again.

    The M3 will be quicker on the track and offer more driving fun whereas the C63 will be the dragster again. Same old story.

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    ^ didn't the c63 p31 beat the m3 around the ring and I think I was reading in the other thread that the c63bs had better lap time then m3 GTS.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mthis Click here to enlarge
    ^ didn't the c63 p31 beat the m3 around the ring and I think I was reading in the other thread that the c63bs had better lap time then m3 GTS.
    The C63 BS did a 7:46 so two seconds quicker.

    I don't know about the P31.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Looks like they're going to need this engine at full strength in the C63 to have a chance at competing with the M3/4 given recent developments Click here to enlarge
    You do realize AMG is also under rating this engine as well LOL it's got an extra 2 cylinders with a whopping 33% more displacement and only revs 300 rpm less. The s55 won't be close for raw power can't beat displacement. Just like the cla45 will be behind the s55 for raw power the m177/178 will beat out the s55 for raw power.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The C63 BS did a 7:46 so two seconds quicker.

    I don't know about the P31.
    Yup the P31 c63 coupe did the ring in 8 minutes flat I believe beating out the times for the e92 m3. This was without LSD either and terrible stock tires. People don't give the facelift c63 enough credit for being a decent track car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Yup the P31 c63 coupe did the ring in 8 minutes flat I believe beating out the times for the e92 m3. This was without LSD either and terrible stock tires. People don't give the facelift c63 enough credit for being a decent track car.
    I don't think it is. That is just winning with raw power on a track that takes 8 minutes to lap.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Yup the P31 c63 coupe did the ring in 8 minutes flat I believe beating out the times for the e92 m3. This was without LSD either and terrible stock tires. People don't give the facelift c63 enough credit for being a decent track car.
    My buddy tracks his C63 all the time. It does quite well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't think it is. That is just winning with raw power on a track that takes 8 minutes to lap.
    lol I know it is I've done plenty of hpde events at NJMP and it holds it own against some fast cars. Once equipped with a LSD and sticky tires it's a beast. Like I said decent track car not track star. C63 coupe pulled a 1:13.6 vs e92 competition package 1:14.0 at hockenheim so it's not just at the ring. Besides the ring is a great track to get a total feel of the car if it was just straights the Veyron would be king. C63 BS also laps hockenheim faster the the m3 GTS.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    My buddy tracks his C63 all the time. It does quite well.
    Yupp it suprises quiet a few people. & my words exactly "decent track car" didn't say it was a gt3 Rs competitor lol forgot I can't mention anything against the great e92 m3. The car really needs a LSD and sticky tires idk how they sold it with an open diff and 235/255 continentals. Huge difference with a quaife and r888

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    lol I know it is I've done plenty of hpde events at NJMP and it holds it own against some fast cars. Once equipped with a LSD and sticky tires it's a beast. Like I said decent track car not track star. C63 coupe pulled a 1:13.6 vs e92 competition package 1:14.0 at hockenheim so it's not just at the ring. Besides the ring is a great track to get a total feel of the car if it was just straights the Veyron would be king. C63 BS also laps hockenheim faster the the m3 GTS.
    I'm not saying it's terrible but come on man, it's not M3 in the handling department.

    The Ring is a lot about power. You put an M3 on any tighter track and it will run circles around the C63. As it does in the comparisons.

    I mean, 50/50 weight distribution with less curb weight?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not saying it's terrible but come on man, it's not M3 in the handling department.

    The Ring is a lot about power. You put an M3 on any tighter track and it will run circles around the C63. As it does in the comparisons.

    I mean, 50/50 weight distribution with less curb weight?
    Circles? Highly doubt it and no m3 has run circles around me at the track. Passed plenty and have been passed by some but all were battles and they deff weren't running circles around me. The tighter the track the more an advantage the m3 will have but its nowhere near the advantage you think it is. At an autocross the m3 would clearly be the better car but at a track its a battle you have to remember straights are important at the track and the c63 is not far behind in handling especially high speed sweepers so it can make up in straights what it lost through turns. a p31 c63 will do 60-130 almost 1 sec faster then a dct m3 which is typical of coming out of a turn and end of straight away which can happen 2+ times at the track.

    I weighed my c63 few days ago as its going to get corner balanced when my KW DDC's come in I was at 3760 with a full tank of gas and no spare with a 51/49 front to rear weight distribution. Ive seen DCT M3's weigh low to mid 3600's with DCT. My car isn't stock but telling you its not as big of a difference as you think and its mostly the cars tested with no LSD and terrible/under sized stock tires the chassis is capable

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    ehhh a little under 3/4 tank just checked I lied. I have my rear seats removed as well as primary/secondary cats which are heavy, resonator removed, and muffler boxes of AP exhaust are lighter then stock + 2 piece rotors (13 pounds lighter each front, 6 pounds lighter each rear). Im currently waiting for a custom carbon fiber roof to be made for my car all measurements were taken, have a carbon fiber hood from mode carbon coming in 2 weeks, carbon fiber driveshaft from weistec, and am thinking about replacing my 65 pound battery with a 15 pound lithium ion. Want to get to 3500 area full street trim

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Circles? Highly doubt it and no m3 has run circles around me at the track. Passed plenty and have been passed by some but all were battles and they deff weren't running circles around me. The tighter the track the more an advantage the m3 will have but its nowhere near the advantage you think it is. At an autocross the m3 would clearly be the better car but at a track its a battle you have to remember straights are important at the track and the c63 is not far behind in handling especially high speed sweepers so it can make up in straights what it lost through turns. a p31 c63 will do 60-130 almost 1 sec faster then a dct m3 which is typical of coming out of a turn and end of straight away which can happen 2+ times at the track.

    I weighed my c63 few days ago as its going to get corner balanced when my KW DDC's come in I was at 3760 with a full tank of gas and no spare with a 51/49 front to rear weight distribution. Ive seen DCT M3's weigh low to mid 3600's with DCT. My car isn't stock but telling you its not as big of a difference as you think and its mostly the cars tested with no LSD and terrible/under sized stock tires the chassis is capable
    There really isn't much for me to say here. The M3 is a superior track car all around. The C63 is a straightline sedan. It's heavier, it has an automatic, it has worse weight distribution, etc.

    Even if you do go to a power track what, it takes a P31 C63 to overcome the handling deficiency? Because stock based C63 for stock DCT M3 the cars are even and the M3 is going to win every single time.

    My DCT M3 weighed 3570 btw.

    I mean I've driven both cars on the track. I know how they feel and I know the specs backwards and forwards. The M3 is on a different level as a track car.

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    Talking about handling this thing is a beast
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    ^ Need to get myself one of those although I'm thinking Z06 now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There really isn't much for me to say here. The M3 is a superior track car all around. The C63 is a straightline sedan. It's heavier, it has an automatic, it has worse weight distribution, etc.

    Even if you do go to a power track what, it takes a P31 C63 to overcome the handling deficiency? Because stock based C63 for stock DCT M3 the cars are even and the M3 is going to win every single time.

    My DCT M3 weighed 3570 btw.

    I mean I've driven both cars on the track. I know how they feel and I know the specs backwards and forwards. The M3 is on a different level as a track car.
    It sounds good on paper but like I said I track my car and NO m3 has run circles around me and ive gone against some extensively modified ones with good drivers my experience says different. 1% more weight in the front is "better" that's a little crazy youll never feel that 1% and ill prob be at 50/50 with my CF hood. It has a MCT clutch based trans not automatic that weve now seen duke it out plenty of times in the e63 vs m5 video and it never loses ground to the DCT. Also the c63 has much better brakes stock vs stock and not just one 60-0 test im talking about beating on a track where the single piston m3 brakes over heat and fade while the 6 piston c63 doesn't fall off. The funny part is you say the c63 is a straight line sedan but you also feel the s65 is a better motor for power LOL yup it also has better seat warmers, much better headlight washer system, horn sounds much louder, and the windows roll up way better don't know why anyone would choose a c63 over an m3 .... I will agree the m3 is the better track car once you agree the m156 is the better motor for raw power Click here to enlarge AKA NEVAAAAA

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    ^ Need to get myself one of those although I'm thinking Z06 now.
    Got a deposit down with the dealership on a z06 from the week before I picked this up. Going red exterior Z07 package with Black alcantara interior

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Got a deposit down with the dealership on a z06 from the week before I picked this up. Going red exterior Z07 package with Black alcantara interior
    I need to see the pricing. If it's going to cost me $100k I'm going to need to around $40-$50 down. Ugh...

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    Funny thing is were talking about handling on these 2 cars but this stingray with the z51 package SH1TS on both its crazy how tossable this thing is. I was happy with my cars handling until I drove this. Now the Z06 will just make me sell the c63

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I need to see the pricing. If it's going to cost me $100k I'm going to need to around $40-$50 down. Ugh...
    Im sure the z07 package will cost a good amount but like the z51 will be "necessary" for max performance. Talking about carbon ceramics, crazy aero package, Michelin pilot sport cup 2 tires that are on the 918 spyder in 335 rears :-0. Now with 650hp/650 tq stock im sure a quick pulley/header/intake will bring it deep into the 600 wheel territory if not more with e85

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    I think it will be around 600 stock. Car will rip... I need one. Like my existence is physically dependent on it.

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    everyone got so sick of the C63 vs M3 discussion that the vette intercedes lmao
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    everyone got so sick of the C63 vs M3 discussion that the vette intercedes lmao
    LMAO its all good me and sticky always get into these discussion but always keep it respectful unlike some people. Ive learned a lot here and its good to throw a wrench into things every once in a while. On a serious note the stingray is a great car i really can't believe the speed you can carry into a corner and just toss the car into the grip is tremendous. Cant imagine what the z06 will be like with those 335 michelin sport cup tires on the rear

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