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  1. #1
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    Tuned W212 E63 AMG M157 with downpipes beats down a tuned F10 M5 S63TU with downpipes from a roll

    On paper this does not add up but that is why we put things to the test in practice. The F10 M5 and W212 E63 AMG are both making similar power from their twin turbo V8's and both sending that power to the rear wheels. Both cars feature tunes with the F10 M5 running the BMS Stage I tune good for roughly 630 horsepower at the wheels with downpipes. The E63 AMG is a 2013 model and has an Renntech 'intermediate' tune with RADO downpipes good for around the 630 wheel horsepower range as well.

    Click here to enlarge

    The E63 uses an MCT wet clutch automatic gearbox while the M5 has a DCT dual clutch transmission. Roll racing with the M5's higher redline and quicker shifting transmission favors it against the E63 stock for stock. So why does the E63 make such easy work of it?

    It seems the advantage of over 100 lb-ft at the wheels for the E63 once tuned just gives it a much fatter curve. While the new E63 AMG models are heavier due to the addition of 4Matic all wheel drive the lighter rear wheel drive E63's have lower drivetrain losses making them the stronger roll on racing option.

    There is no denying what happens in this race, the E63 is a beast.


    2013 E63 AMG
    BMC Air Filters
    Renntech Intermediate Tune
    RADO Downpipes
    630whp/735wtq SAE Dynojet 224

    2014 BMW M5 BMS Shop Car
    BMS Tune
    Catless Downpipes
    635whp

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    That same E63 pulled the weistec 4matic e63 with upgraded turbos and everything ! Seems AMS is the only tuner to get around the torque limitations right now. I understand the higher drivetrain losses and weight but a 4matic with upgraded turbos should walk away from just a tune/DP E63.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    That same E63 pulled the weistec 4matic e63 with upgraded turbos and everything ! Seems AMS is the only tuner to get around the torque limitations right now. I understand the higher drivetrain losses and weight but a 4matic with upgraded turbos should walk away from just a tune/DP E63.
    ezec63, 4matic are just as quick as RWD by 1/10th slower in 1/4 & trap speed will only change by 1-2mph. When it gets turbo upgrade on both RWD & 4matic there should be no issue if installed & sized properly. Torque limitation it's just an excuse, maybe they can use it as a sales pitch j/k.

    Oh btw, the tuned F10 M5 dyno Hp does not really translate into real world (it might sale alot of products thou). An Audi S8 4.0TFSI+ with tune only will do 11.2sec (from stock average 11.9sec) if it makes 600whp without any patches.
    Last edited by LW@MTG; 04-04-2014 at 05:11 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    That same E63 pulled the weistec 4matic e63 with upgraded turbos and everything ! Seems AMS is the only tuner to get around the torque limitations right now. I understand the higher drivetrain losses and weight but a 4matic with upgraded turbos should walk away from just a tune/DP E63.
    +1
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    Interesting...that extra torque must really be helping. Still a surprising result.

  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    ezec63, 4matic are just as quick as RWD by 1/10th slower in 1/4 & trap speed will only change by 1-2mph. When it gets turbo upgrade on both RWD & 4matic there should be no issue if installed & sized properly. Torque limitation it's just an excuse, maybe they can use it as a sales pitch j/k.

    Oh btw, the tuned F10 M5 dyno Hp does not really translate into real world (it might sale alot of products thou). An Audi S8 4.0TFSI+ with tune only will do 11.2sec (from stock average 11.9sec) if it makes 600whp without any patches.

    So you are saying the rwd e63 is not much faster then the awd varient?

    surely when turbos come into the mix the traction the awd will make it walk away from the rwd no

  7. #7
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    ezec63, 4matic are just as quick as RWD by 1/10th slower in 1/4 & trap speed will only change by 1-2mph. When it gets turbo upgrade on both RWD & 4matic there should be no issue if installed & sized properly. Torque limitation it's just an excuse, maybe they can use it as a sales pitch j/k.

    Oh btw, the tuned F10 M5 dyno Hp does not really translate into real world (it might sale alot of products thou). An Audi S8 4.0TFSI+ with tune only will do 11.2sec (from stock average 11.9sec) if it makes 600whp without any patches.
    Please clarify. You do acknowledge the significant torque management still present in Renntech's 4matic tunes, right? My ML63 has Renntech's tune with spark plugs and BMC filters, the intervention of the car cutting power from a stop, low speeds and on some shifts is dramatic. An upgraded turbo car should still be faster than a tune only car all things considered especially if the race continues to any speed above, say, 60 mph, but wouldn't you agree that doing the turbo upgrade on a 4matic M157 without significantly revamping the torque management is a waste?
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  8. #8
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    no replacement for displacement I guess

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