Close

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 72 of 72
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's why I prefer wheel horsepower figures to show what the car is putting down to the ground as it can vary quite a bit.

    Power and torque are not going to be a problem with tuned M157's. Looking forward to the turbo upgraded 4Matic's.
    The car is a turbo upgraded 4 matic.
    As long you are comparing whp with whp or crank with crank you get the same picture from the same car. If the loss is 125 or 140 hp is not so important. But the times say a lot more about performance.
    I hope you can se what i am trying to say with mu bad english.

    if the same model of car have 600 whp with one tune and 650 hp with another tune.
    the crank hp also have a difference about 50 hp.
    Last edited by SVP03; 04-03-2014 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Ok

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    As long you are comparing whp with whp or crank with crank you get the same picture from the same car.
    No you don't, that is the reason we have dyno's and why we talk about wheel horsepower.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    If the loss is 125 or 140 hp is not so important.
    It's very important. It's why an M3 is faster than RS5 despite the RS5 having more crank HP supposedly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    I hope you can se what i am trying to say with mu bad english.
    I completely understand what you are saying.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    You can compare a M3 with another M3 on crank hp, but not a M3 with a C63. I know that
    So you did not understand it :-)
    Last edited by SVP03; 04-03-2014 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Ok

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    You can compare a M3 with another M3 on crank hp, but not a M3 with a C63. I know that
    So you did not understand it :-)
    No I understood it but considering say an M3 has two different transmission options, different wheels, weather, elevation, etc., the crank rating isn't a precise way of comparison.

    Wheel horsepower pretty much always is preferred. That's why we dyno.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No I understood it but considering say an M3 has two different transmission options, different wheels, weather, elevation, etc., the crank rating isn't a precise way of comparison.

    Wheel horsepower pretty much always is preferred. That's why we dyno.
    if you take the total same car model, and put in on the same dyno with the same wheels the same day, it dosent matter if it is wheel power or crank power you compare from the same car to car.
    if it is whp og chp you compare, you will get af different result on different dyno, and the temperature, the airpressure and water i the air % will all give different results.

    on page 1 there is a diff between whp and chp that looks pretty low for a 4wd car with aut gearbox. ? I think.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    The best way is anyway to put them head to head on the road. Then it is real life.
    there is also a diff on dyne due to cooling of the engine and if there is Co2 in the air if the ventilation in the room is not good. We can keep on write things that have effect on the resoult.
    and i have never said that whp is not good.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    if you take the total same car model, and put in on the same dyno with the same wheels the same day, it dosent matter if it is wheel power or crank power you compare from the same car to car.
    Why doesn't it matter? How do you know the drivetrain losses without ever getting a dyno in the first place?

    I mean I really don't see the point here. We dyno for a reason.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    The best way is anyway to put them head to head on the road. Then it is real life.
    there is also a diff on dyne due to cooling of the engine and if there is Co2 in the air if the ventilation in the room is not good. We can keep on write things that have effect on the resoult.
    and i have never said that whp is not good.
    The best way is to have the most data available from all sources.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why doesn't it matter? How do you know the drivetrain losses without ever getting a dyno in the first place?

    I mean I really don't see the point here. We dyno for a reason.
    I try a last time.
    if you take the e63 2014 amg S4matic
    if you have crank at standard car at 619 hp and tuned at 700 hp, there is a diff at 81 hp. 12%
    if you have whp at standard 541 whp and tuned 603 whp, there is a diff at 62 hp. 11%
    Is it then not the same 11-12% more power you get with the tune.
    here on page 1 it maybe is not the same car,
    but it is the 11-12% i an trying to explane to you.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    I try a last time.
    if you take the e63 2014 amg S4matic
    if you have crank at standard car at 619 hp and tuned at 700 hp, there is a diff at 81 hp. 12%
    if you have whp at standard 541 whp and tuned 603 whp, there is a diff at 62 hp. 11%
    Is it then not the same 11-12% more power you get with the tune.
    here on page 1 it maybe is not the same car,
    but it is the 11-12% i an trying to explane to you.
    Drivetrain losses are not standard across dynos. Drivetrain loss also is not static.

    Going by crank HP is not precise. I understand your point but it's just better to get a dyno than to estimate and it gives a better picture of what is going on especially through the entire curve which a peak crank hp figure does not provide.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Then there is another thing.
    should the drivtrain loss not always be the same hp/nm , lets say 75 hp, if the car have 500 hp or 700 hp. And not counted in % ? As you normaly do in US test video.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    I mean that loss is closer to static than % loss.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    I'm not really sure what you are saying.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not really sure what you are saying.
    Lets take whp on the dyno.
    if a standard car have 500 whp and we know that it have 600 hp power on the crank, then it have loss at 100 hp or 20 %.
    if the car is tuned to 650 whp, then
    will it have 650+100 hp, 750 hp on crank or
    will it have 650+20%, 780 hp on the crank ?? You meen.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    if a standard car have 500 whp and we know that it have 600 hp power on the crank, then it have loss at 100 hp or 20 %.
    if the car is tuned to 650 whp, then
    will it have 650+100 hp, 750 hp on crank or
    will it have 650+20%, 780 hp on the crank ?? You meen.
    I think you're trying to make a point that if you know the losses on a certain dyno you can work with the % from the crank figure not needing the wheel figures.

    What I'm trying to tell you is losses change based on the size and weight of the wheels tires, fuel, elevation, rpm, etc. There are a ton of factors.

    Plus, a peak figure only tells you so much. So we know a car makes 600 hp at the crank and 500 whp, so what? What does it make at 1500, 2500, 3500, 4500, etc., rpm? You need a dyno.

    I'm not really sure what we are discussing at this point but I mean dyno's are necessary, important, valid, and offer more data thank a crank rating ever can.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you're trying to make a point that if you know the losses on a certain dyno you can work with the % from the crank figure not needing the wheel figures.

    What I'm trying to tell you is losses change based on the size and weight of the wheels tires, fuel, elevation, rpm, etc. There are a ton of factors.

    Plus, a peak figure only tells you so much. So we know a car makes 600 hp at the crank and 500 whp, so what? What does it make at 1500, 2500, 3500, 4500, etc., rpm? You need a dyno.

    I'm not really sure what we are discussing at this point but I mean dyno's are necessary, important, valid, and offer more data thank a crank rating ever can.
    If a car have 600 hp on crank and 500 hp on dyno, will the loss always be 100 hp what ever hp it have.
    this is a theoretical example.
    Maybe you dont care, but then you have to gues like in the video here if the car have the hp that the factory claims.


  17. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    213
    Rep Points
    150.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    And still, i dont say that crank hp is better, but what is the best way to calculate between whp and crank hp.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    And still, i dont say that crank hp is better, but what is the best way to calculate between whp and crank hp.
    I disagree with you and that's fine.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    974
    Rep Points
    442.4
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    5


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    The S model AMG has a rear LSD that can vector torque left to right to sharpen up cornering big time and helping almost 100% neutralize the understeer of AWD. AMS Massive gains !! I know you guys made a thread last year about carbon fiber airboxes and a bunch of other parts any update on that?
    Alright yeah I thought so but I wasn't sure and didn't want to say something that wasn't true. Thanks for the info.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    West Chicago, IL
    Posts
    60
    Rep Points
    310.2
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    The S model AMG has a rear LSD that can vector torque left to right to sharpen up cornering big time and helping almost 100% neutralize the understeer of AWD. AMS Massive gains !! I know you guys made a thread last year about carbon fiber airboxes and a bunch of other parts any update on that?
    The carbon airbox is very close to complete, along with the turbine outlet pipes, down pipes and a few other things that will be announced soon Click here to enlarge

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,858
    Rep Points
    31,808.3
    Mentioned
    2089 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ALPHA Performance Click here to enlarge
    The carbon airbox is very close to complete, along with the turbine outlet pipes, down pipes and a few other things that will be announced soon Click here to enlarge
    This is really good stuff guys...

    Also @ALPHA Performance I'm close on getting nissanboost.com up. I really wouldn't mind if you started sending me some GTR info: http://www.nissanboost.com/content.p...ce-engine-porn

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    West Chicago, IL
    Posts
    60
    Rep Points
    310.2
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is really good stuff guys...

    Also @ALPHA Performance I'm close on getting nissanboost.com up. I really wouldn't mind if you started sending my some GTR info: http://www.nissanboost.com/content.p...ce-engine-porn
    There should be plenty of new content soon Click here to enlarge

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •