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    Gintani's E63 M6 supercharged S85 V10 versus Renntech tuned 2013 W212 E63 AMG M157 V8

    This E63 is running very strong and Renntech clearly has a great M157 V8 tune. The M6 you see here has the Gintani supercharger package based around a Vortech blower. This car showed over 700 horsepower at the wheels on a Dynojet last month so it is a powerful car and no slouch. The E63 is not making as much power but has a torque advantage and the MCT transmission sure looks like it does a better job holding boost between shifts than the M6 SMG-III.

    Click here to enlarge

    The race is fairly close but the E63 opens a bit of a lead on the shifts. The M6 does not close the gap before the end of the race and also does not look to be pulling up top.

    A longer race might tell a different story but this E63 is running very well. From pulling a 997.2 Turbo to a 458 Italia it Renntech has a strong running car here.


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    e63 is badass

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    m6 is loosing so much momentum between shifts...the benz mct makes the smg look like a mt

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    E63 is getting some right there!
    Click here to enlarge
    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

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    i think dct swap in the m6 will tell a different story Click here to enlarge

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    Yeah I can't wait to see that DCT swap.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
    m6 is loosing so much momentum between shifts...the benz mct makes the smg look like a mt
    Well the SMG is a lot older too..

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    Much older and never designed with boost between shifts in mind.

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    I've been trying to tell people this for a while MCT shifts are very fast ! Not quite DCT but closest I've experienced to it and way faster then any slush box or single clutch it's just the paddle delay that doesn't let you appreciate the quickness. If left in S+ or once shift points are learned it's a beast and has shown to take almost 800whp with just a valve body/ TCU tune. Very under rated

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Much older and never designed with boost between shifts in mind.
    MCT was designed for the M156 N/A v8. Made it's debut in the sl63 and later on E63(m156). The C63 coupe then was the first to get the slightly redesigned MCT and it's the same one in this e63 and other m157 cars. They are able to get much faster shifts with the combination of the wet clutch and very briefly interrupting ignition between shifts to achieve a crazy fast shift that other wise would be brutal like in the aventador at wot. That's the "pop" you hear when the MCT shifts. When your in the car you barely "feel" the shift bang it just pops and your already in the next gear accelerating before you know what happened

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    the real point is SMG is just bad for FI..lol it can barely stand on its toes even on stock cars Click here to enlarge
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    MCT was designed for the M156 N/A v8. Made it's debut in the sl63 and later on E63(m156). The C63 coupe then was the first to get the slightly redesigned MCT and it's the same one in this e63 and other m157 cars. They are able to get much faster shifts with the combination of the wet clutch and very briefly interrupting ignition between shifts to achieve a crazy fast shift that other wise would be brutal like in the aventador at wot. That's the "pop" you hear when the MCT shifts. When your in the car you barely "feel" the shift bang it just pops and your already in the next gear accelerating before you know what happened
    But being as it is basically an auto box it holds boost between shifts. The SMG is basically a manual with a hydraulically actuated clutch. Different technologies at work with different applications.

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    That's hot

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    2-3rd shift bogged a lil, you can hear it. 3-4th was alot cleaner. 4-5 it didnt lose any ground at all.

    Its a stock SMG with stock clutch, pushing almost 300WHP more then it was designed for..
    Racing a modded E63 with massive tq doesnt help either. Even with a DCT, that M6 wouldnt be able to overcome the E63's tq over it down low.

    In the other video (posted in another thread) racing the F10 M5 which has a DCT, the M6 didnt have any trouble and the shifts didn't lose any ground..
    Still impressive for me from a 8 year old tranny design.

    I have yet to see someone make a tune for the SMG, besides the euro tune which doesnt do much except unlock a full LC and different default settings.

    With 300WHP extra and boost, that SMG needs a tune, but then again that isnt what it was designed for.
    Last edited by 5soko; 02-28-2014 at 05:22 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    2-3rd shift bogged a lil, you can hear it. 3-4th was alot cleaner. 4-5 it didnt lose any ground at all.

    Its a stock SMG with stock clutch, pushing almost 300WHP more then it was designed for..
    Racing a modded E63 with massive tq doesnt help either.

    In the other video (posted in another thread) racing the F10 M5 which has a DCT, the M6 didnt have any trouble and the shifts didn't lose any ground..
    Still impressive for me from a 8 year old tranny design.

    I have yet to see someone make a tune for the SMG, besides the euro tune which doesnt do much except unlock a full LC and different default settings.

    With 300WHP extra and boost, that SMG needs a tune, but then again that isnt what it was designed for.
    I don't know if they have upgraded the clutch or not but I would think you have to at that point.

    This is a 700 whp S85 V10. It's making much more power than the E63 and should pull it. This event unfortunately skewed results considerably due to the length and starting speeds.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    I have yet to see someone make a tune for the SMG, besides the euro tune which doesnt do much except unlock a full LC and different default settings.
    I'm trying to think of who had a full SMG tune. Maybe Evolve? @Imran@Evolve @evolve

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know if they have upgraded the clutch or not but I would think you have to at that point.

    This is a 700 whp S85 V10. It's making much more power than the E63 and should pull it. This event unfortunately skewed results considerably due to the length and starting speeds.
    I dont know of anyone who has successfully upgraded the SMG clutch. Such a complicated system, it only seems to like and accept the OEM clutch. I believe i was reading on gintani's instagram it was all stock SMG.
    I was surprised the gintani M6 did so poorly, but then again the race ends once it really starts, and most cars there have some good tq!.. The M6 def started holding better at the end of the race or as speeds starting climbing.
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    I dont know of anyone who has successfully upgraded the SMG clutch. Such a complicated system, it only seems to like and accept the OEM clutch. I believe i was reading on instagram it was all stock SMG.
    I was surprised the gintani M6 did so poorly, but then again the race ends once it really starts, and most cars there have some good tq!.. The M6 def started holding better at the end of the race or as speeds starting climbing.
    The SMG-II clutch is upgraded routinely so I don't see the problem really. It really isn't that complicated.

    Look the reason it struggles is clearly the trans. This car makes more power and torque than the VT3 M3 that was there yet that car easily pulled this E63.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The SMG-II clutch is upgraded routinely so I don't see the problem really. It really isn't that complicated.

    Look the reason it struggles is clearly the trans. This car makes more power and torque than the VT3 M3 that was there yet that car easily pulled this E63.
    The SMGIII hydraulics are alot more complicated then the SMGII, that is why no1 has yet to upgrade the clutch and make the SMG accept it to work properly. Using INPA to adapt and put the SMG in clutch teach in mode, the program would only accept the oem clutch unless somebody has a work around this. I wish someone would tackle again to upgrade it. Wouldnt be surprised a VT3 M3 would win, it probably has some weight advantage and a DCT, which cant even compare to the SMG
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    The SMGIII hydraulics are alot more complicated then the SMGII, that is why no1 has yet to upgrade the clutch and make the SMG accept it to work properly.
    This is true but it is still essentially a manual that is hydraulically actuated.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    sing INPA to adapt and put the SMG in clutch teach in mode, the program would only accept the oem clutch unless somebody has a work around this.
    I can relate.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    I wish someone would tackle again to upgrade it. Wouldnt be surprised a VT3 M3 would win, it probably has some weight advantage and a DCT, which cant even compare to the SMG
    This car would the DCT would be even faster up top. The weight difference of course is a factor.

    Guess I'm not surprised as to why they are swapping that DCT in.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is true but it is still essentially a manual that is hydraulically actuated.



    I can relate.



    This car would the DCT would be even faster up top. The weight difference of course is a factor.

    Guess I'm not surprised as to why they are swapping that DCT in.
    Yea, i hope that swap works, would be super interesting, haven't heard anything of it in a while..At these power levels, racing cars with DCT's at the same power level, unless there making alot more power, the SMG is gonna hold them back.
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    Yea, i hope that swap works, would be super interesting, haven't heard anything of it in a while..At these power levels, racing cars with DCT's at the same power level, unless there making alot more power, the SMG is gonna hold them back.
    Absolutely., That transmission is showing it rules performance right now when even a lower powered car can beat a higher powered car based on shift speed alone.

    With equal power the DCT is going to win every time. Against manuals it will be ugly.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Absolutely., That transmission is showing it rules performance right now when even a lower powered car can beat a higher powered car based on shift speed alone.

    With equal power the DCT is going to win every time. Against manuals it will be ugly.
    Still interests me that comparing how the M6 did aganist the 640WHP F10 M5 with DCT and this E63 with MCT; The shifts in this video dont seem as dramatically bad either, but the M6 does better. I thought if the E63 did so well, the F10 was gonna give it the business with the DCT. Not that it did bad being 60WHP down, but comparing it to the E63's power and run aganist the M6.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig9e...utu.be&t=8m15s
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    Here let me help you:


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    I don't know why it does so much better in that video. I can't quite explain it. I do know I have a new article for tomorrow though. Did not see that video yet.

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