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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    What happens if because your mining power is insufficient, you NEVER solve a block? How much money are you keeping to yourself, exactly?
    If I'm talking about 6-8 cards at 600 gh/s how is that not sufficient mining power?
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you mean a pool offers the most steady return.

    I'd rather keep all 25 coins per block for myself.

    Regardless, is it really worth investing in the hardware? I thought about it and have yet to do so.
    yes, it's reliable.. you won't get that lottery win, but you won't come out with zero at the end.

    Bitcoin: no

    scrypt: yes


    If you spend $10k on a few GPU rigs, it should pay itself off in ~40-45 days, and end up making somewhere around (less electricity, not counting price rises) around the $70-90k mark over 12 months

    factoring in price rises (and that you'll get less and less coins over time)... ...
    boop

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If I'm talking about 6-8 cards at 600 gh/s how is that not sufficient mining power?
    because the network hash rate of bitcoin isn't far off 30,000 terahash per second (iirc)

    a 200 gh/s ASIC will cost you about $2k... 8*600 @ 6k/card is $48k... and you've still only got 4.8/30,000... and again, that 30,000 value is rising by a $#@!load every day

    then in 6 months, when the even more efficient ASIC's hit the market and hash rate goes even more exponential?

    Mining bitcoin is NOT worth it unless you like to gamble.

    There's a dude in canada who got a few hundred grand off bitcoin.. then spend $200k on a GPU farm to mine dogecoin. that's solid reliable money there... but again, $200k investment.
    boop

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well isn't money the goal? Why else do it?
    Yes money is the goal, but it shouldn't be a 100/0 gamble unless you're willing to take that 0..
    boop

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes that's about right.



    How would you not solve a block at some point?
    it relies on you getting the last calculation, in order to solo mine the reward

    when you're going up against several thousand times your hash rate potentially.. and simple bad luck (others getting that last calculation), as well as network hash rate rising constantly... no reward for you.. Bitcoin only has 144 blocks per day, 1 every 10 minutes.. if you have 30,000/4.8, you have 1/6250th of the network hash rate.. you'll find one block every 6250 blocks, or 43 days on *average*... MAYBE.

    with a scrypt coin? yeah mostly you're BOUND to find a block, like with said $166k setup, you'll average 1-1.5 blocks a day (but again, the reward is randomized to average out).. on the HIGHEST difficulty coin... easier coins, you can find several blocks an hour no worries lol.

    with bitcoin, that the hash rate massively rises every day.. yeah there's a GOOD chance you'll never find a block.

    Bitcoin/SHA256 you have to mine with ASIC's.. they hash hundreds of times faster than a graphics card, and use a fraction of the power.. this presents a problem in itself, as stated.
    boop

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Solving a block is like solving a soduko puzzle. You might get it perfectly right the first time, requiring little effort(Hash power). On the other hand, you're house might catch fire and burn down into rubble, and the rubber from your tires might melt and form the winning lottery numbers for the next megamillions(And a valid barcode).
    LOL that's not far off the reality of how hard it is Click here to enlarge
    boop

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Setting up a pool is something I already thought about and decided against. Too much DDoS, too many problems with people dumping you for the next big pool etc... Netcodepool has done a lot for the community and everyone has jumped ship and is just joining multipools. Those multipools are just killing the scene really.

    In the united states, exchanges are money transmitters, and pool owners are money 'administrators'. Both of which have to register as a money business service with the feds, and on top of that registering with each and every state except montana and I think south carolina. For florida alone, they require a surety bond of 50k MINIMUM up to 2% of your gross volumes. Multiply that by 48 states and you are in for a world of hurt. Thats why I'll be hosting off shore.

    As far as mitigating risk, I've considered making my exchange be completely 100% cold storage. In otherwords, you are transmitting to a cold storage wallet. And 24-72 hour withdrawls are required. Even if the server is hacked, they have access to no private keys. The worst they could do is alter the tables which hold the user balances. But an audit system in place which audits prior to withdrawl should eliminate that. The biggest downside, is this requires being in close proximity to the server unless you want to pay someone at the datacenter to insert and remove drives on a daily basis. Security has its costs.
    Oh yeah, 100% agree, multipools are totally wrecking everything. they massacre the crappy altcoins that pop up for profit... i feel dirty by mining on one lol... but the returns... they're stable while doge is in a bit of turmoil

    OTOH.. the owner of middlecoin was/is getting about $10k usd in fees.. that's good money.

    man that sucks @ the laws in the USA. no thanks.

    as for the last paragraph... IMO, that's not good, no one wants 24-72 hour waits to get their funds.. people don't even like a 1 hour wait as is

    speed has to be a huge consideration, unless you have some other high draw feature?

    if people want security, they send to a fast exchange, trade, put on a personal wallet.
    boop

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    because the network hash rate of bitcoin isn't far off 30,000 terahash per second (iirc)

    a 200 gh/s ASIC will cost you about $2k... 8*600 @ 6k/card is $48k... and you've still only got 4.8/30,000... and again, that 30,000 value is rising by a $#@!load every day

    then in 6 months, when the even more efficient ASIC's hit the market and hash rate goes even more exponential?

    Mining bitcoin is NOT worth it unless you like to gamble.

    There's a dude in canada who got a few hundred grand off bitcoin.. then spend $200k on a GPU farm to mine dogecoin. that's solid reliable money there... but again, $200k investment.
    It's a never ending game of trying to sell your hardware and get new hardware.

    I guess it just makes more sense for me to make the money the old fashioned way.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Bitcoin/SHA256 you have to mine with ASIC's.. they hash hundreds of times faster than a graphics card, and use a fraction of the power.. this presents a problem in itself, as stated.
    Of course you want to mine with ASIC's for bitcoin. Anything else is a waste of time.

    With litecoin there still is not dedicated mining hardware from what I understand.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's a never ending game of trying to sell your hardware and get new hardware.

    I guess it just makes more sense for me to make the money the old fashioned way.
    yeah hence scrypt is a bit of a safer bet. The increase in hash rate isn't hugely exponential, no threat of killer ASIC's. within the next 12-18 months.

    but yeah, personally from what i researched/worked out, it's the best way for me to make money.. a hell of a lot of money, relatively quickly... For some people, may not see it the same way.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course you want to mine with ASIC's for bitcoin. Anything else is a waste of time.

    With litecoin there still is not dedicated mining hardware from what I understand.
    yeah, scrypt (litecoin etc.) has nothing better than a GPU right now.. there's one company (viper) in planning stages still, basically 12-18 months away at best, and still not a GPU *killer*
    boop

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    yeah, scrypt (litecoin etc.) has nothing better than a GPU right now.. there's one company (viper) in planning stages still, basically 12-18 months away at best, and still not a GPU *killer*
    Maybe I'll get into litecoin then and get a rig with several Radeon's.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Maybe I'll get into litecoin then and get a rig with several Radeon's.
    yep, AMD/ATI GPU's are the most efficient.. so popular, that prices have MASSIVELY risen over the past 3 months.. a $200 GPU in the used market now fetches $300. it sucks.

    i bought out the last stock of the $370 280x here.. then i bought out the last stock of the $388 ones..

    the motherboards that have 6 slots, they come in stock and sell out within an hour

    If you do want to try it out, and have some spare cash, start off small maybe, and see how you like it?

    On average, some of the other scrypt based coins (or a multipool) then trading for litecoin or bitcoin.. will get ~150% better profit than mining litecoin directly.

    ED: and for a full rig.. it's about $2940 for a 6x 280x rig (australian prices, i think it's actually a tiny bit cheaper here for 280x lol) or a touch under $2000 for a 6x R9 270 rig (at $219 per GPU here.. you can get, with rebates, 270's for like $150 in the states Click here to enlarge )
    Last edited by Flinchy; 02-19-2014 at 01:05 AM.
    boop

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    yep, AMD/ATI GPU's are the most efficient.. so popular, that prices have MASSIVELY risen over the past 3 months.. a $200 GPU in the used market now fetches $300. it sucks.

    i bought out the last stock of the $370 280x here.. then i bought out the last stock of the $388 ones..

    the motherboards that have 6 slots, they come in stock and sell out within an hour

    If you do want to try it out, and have some spare cash, start off small maybe, and see how you like it?

    On average, some of the other scrypt based coins (or a multipool) then trading for litecoin or bitcoin.. will get ~150% better profit than mining litecoin directly.

    ED: and for a full rig.. it's about $2940 for a 6x 280x rig (australian prices, i think it's actually a tiny bit cheaper here for 280x lol) or a touch under $2000 for a 6x R9 270 rig (at $219 per GPU here.. you can get, with rebates, 270's for like $150 in the states Click here to enlarge )
    6 x 7990's...
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Maybe I'll get into litecoin then and get a rig with several Radeon's.
    Why would you mine litecoin when there are other scrypt coins that are much more profitable? Dogecoin for instance... The mining power on dogecoin has surpassed litecoin in just 2 months.
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Why would you mine litecoin when there are other scrypt coins that are much more profitable? Dogecoin for instance... The mining power on dogecoin has surpassed litecoin in just 2 months.
    I don't know man I don't have all the answers. Litecoin seems to be the second most stable behind bitcoin.
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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know man I don't have all the answers. Litecoin seems to be the second most stable behind bitcoin.
    Stable? What does stability have to do with profitability?
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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Stable? What does stability have to do with profitability?
    Your mom.
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    6 x 7990's...
    poor hash/watt *and* poor hash/$ invested

    the PC to run 6*280x (1700w PSU total) is $690 roughly including PCIe risers. you'd easily need 2200+ watts to run 6*7990.. you'd probably struggle to get them below 350w each, and they'd do say.. 1100-1400kh/s (if you're LUCKY) each?..

    that, and they still command an insane price on the used market.. you're looking at likely around 2500W, the full PC setup inc power supply somewhere around the $1000 mark to run it, and 8400kh/s IF THEY ALL WORK PERFECTLY.. .. and you'd be lucky to get 6 for probably $700ea on the used market (still $1000 new).. so that's a $5200, 61c/kh at best.. possibly up to $1.06.. plus the fact you have to hunt for them, rather than just being able to buy better priced cards off the shelf.

    6x 280x will get you 4500kh/s for $2900~, or a reliable $.64/kh

    6x 290x aren't very good either, 1000kh/s each but they're expensive, and work out to about $.83/kh.

    i tried going down the cheaper used card path to begin with, with 7950's... too hard, few and far between, and they command a too-high price.
    boop

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know man I don't have all the answers. Litecoin seems to be the second most stable behind bitcoin.
    i suggest checking out the community behind dogecoin, and WHY it's so promising

    people like moolah working on software platforms that far surpass anything ever done for bitcoin or litecoin..

    tip bots on every major social media website (facebook almost done!), SMS tip bots in more and more countries... i believe someone is even working on an extension tipbot (good for long term at least)

    a network hash rate higher than ALL other scrypt based coins put together

    a lite-wallet (so you don't have to download the whole blockchain).. and a $90m (was at least) market cap in only 2 months. the third highest market cap in such a short time, highest tx volume, highest dollar tx volume based on market cap...

    once you get past the fact it's meme-based, and *looks* childish and stupid... you see why it's what is is already, and where it will likely go.

    might be a bit much when you're just learning about it, that and there's $#@!loads of crappy coins released every day, more than you can possibly remember just about haha.
    boop

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Stable? What does stability have to do with profitability?
    that, and since dogecoin stole it's thunder, it's been pretty unstable haha.
    boop

  21. #46
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    You guys are really sold on Dogecoin.
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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You guys are really sold on Dogecoin.
    it's infectious.

    that, and i have a decent amount of it already haha

    I'm not saying it's a bitcoin killer, it's not innovative in a base coin sense.. but it's going to overtake litecoin this year easily... And it has more reason to be a usable currency than bitcoin does (mild inflation etc.)

    i'm going to hold a few BTC, but at least for the next 12-24mo, mostly doge yes.
    boop

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You guys are really sold on Dogecoin.
    Bitcoin will NEVER be a transactional currency AND a secure crypto at the same time... Its impossible.

    When all coins are mined, there is ONLY the transaction fee. This fee would have to be such a huge percentage of the money spent that it would be like paying massive merchant processing fees. If those fees are reasonable, then no miner would want to stay on board, hence reducing the hash power which verifies the transactions and ensures their security from a 51% attack.
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  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Bitcoin will NEVER be a transactional currency AND a secure crypto at the same time... Its impossible.

    When all coins are mined, there is ONLY the transaction fee. This fee would have to be such a huge percentage of the money spent that it would be like paying massive merchant processing fees. If those fees are reasonable, then no miner would want to stay on board, hence reducing the hash power which verifies the transactions and ensures their security from a 51% attack.
    that, and due to the fact it's deflationary.. it's ALWAYS going to rise in value higher than other currencies.. especially as lots are being lost/destroyed/forgotten about.. I've personally probably lost 20-50 somewhere, years ago.

    when you treat it like an investment which it effectively is.. why spend it?

    only the people with reasonably high amounts they have had for years would want to spend it...

    and re: 51% attack.. due to ASIC's being prevalent, 51% attacks are easier on bitcoin, despite what the high network hash rate indicates.. just build a really high efficiency ASIC, don't sell it, destroy bitcoin..
    boop

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    I'm just waiting for someon to pop in here and say, "Hey, I'm a crypto coder and I'm interested in your exchange project! AND I live in the United States or somewhere besides India(No offense)".

    I just need someone local so I can sue them if they put a back door or for intellectual property rights reasons.
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