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  1. #101
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    @Sticky

    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...-carmel-police

    Unfortunate to see. Like I said, he was not sober.
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  2. #102
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky

    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...-carmel-police

    Unfortunate to see. Like I said, he was not sober.
    That is so $#@!ing stupid.
    ​#Chuckstrong

  3. #103
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    PS it's not alcohol.
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  4. #104
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky

    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...-carmel-police

    Unfortunate to see. Like I said, he was not sober.
    Man like that can have a driver... wtf is he doing?

  5. #105
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Man like that can have a driver... wtf is he doing?
    A driver isn’t the issue here, Jim has been struggling for years now, just sounds like it was worse than most thought. The public at large didn’t really get a sense of it, because the issues weren’t primarily with alcohol- though to be clear anyone who tells you he’s been off the bottle 100% is 110% full of it.

    I’ve heard Oxycodone thrown around, but it’s nothing more than a rumor and it’s not my place to substantiate that. Either way, it’s not good, and not befitting of an NFL franchise.

    I’m not at all involved with the team building side of football, but never underestimate the degree to which distractions can ruin a season before it starts.
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  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    A driver isn’t the issue here, Jim has been struggling for years now, just sounds like it was worse than most thought. The public at large didn’t really get a sense of it, because the issues weren’t primarily with alcohol- though to be clear anyone who tells you he’s been off the bottle 100% is 110% full of it.

    I’ve heard Oxycodone thrown around, but it’s nothing more than a rumor and it’s not my place to substantiate that. Either way, it’s not good, and not befitting of an NFL franchise.

    I’m not at all involved with the team building side of football, but never underestimate the degree to which distractions can ruin a season before it starts.
    I really, honestly do not care about him but what I find interesting is people saying the NFL should discipline him. He's not an employee or player, he owns the team. I really don't care what he does with his life but it's not like he's on the field or subject to the rules players are.

  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I really, honestly do not care about him but what I find interesting is people saying the NFL should discipline him. He's not an employee or player, he owns the team. I really don't care what he does with his life but it's not like he's on the field or subject to the rules players are.
    Nope. EVERY employee of the NFL is subject to the broad conduct code, which is ultimately at the discretion of the commish. I expect him to be suspended at the very least. Owners are 100% not above the rules that govern the league. Nothing is above the shield, Goodell takes that very seriously.

    There are a few aspects that only apply to players, but the personal conduct policy states quite plainly that it applies to all employees or "stewards" of the NFL. He counts as both.
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  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Nope. EVERY employee of the NFL is subject to the broad conduct code, which is ultimately at the discretion of the commish. I expect him to be suspended at the very least. Owners are 100% not above the rules that govern the league. Nothing is above the shield, Goodell takes that very seriously.

    There are a few aspects that only apply to players, but the personal conduct policy states quite plainly that it applies to all employees or "stewards" of the NFL. He counts as both.
    How is he an employee though? He owns the team, not the NFL.

  9. #109
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How is he an employee though? He owns the team, not the NFL.
    He is the Owner of the Indy Colts- but ultimately an “employee” of the league. I see what you are saying in the sense that he can’t be fired, but from a legal standpoint as I understand it, he is beholden to the same personal conduct code that applies to all “employees and stewards of the NFL, NFLPA, and registered entities”.

    The legal technicalities I won’t pretend to understand, but as a bottom line matter, Goodell can suspend him for as long as he pleases. It’s a very, very rare thing to have happen- but it can happen.
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  10. #110
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    Now what I don’t understand is the “steward” part- I had never heard of it until this AM…so for instance, is Paul Tags (former NFL commish) still accountable to the league’s personal conduct policy? He is no longer actively employed but still represents the league on a variety of matters. Is he covered? I have no idea. Some very wealthy lawyers could explain, but not me.
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  11. #111
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    He is the Owner of the Indy Colts- but ultimately an “employee” of the league. I see what you are saying in the sense that he can’t be fired, but from a legal standpoint as I understand it, he is beholden to the same personal conduct code that applies to all “employees and stewards of the NFL, NFLPA, and registered entities”.

    The legal technicalities I won’t pretend to understand, but as a bottom line matter, Goodell can suspend him for as long as he pleases. It’s a very, very rare thing to have happen- but it can happen.
    Owners can be suspended? Man why would owners ever agree to that? I wouldn't let some $#@! in the front office tell me what to do.

  12. #112
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Owners can be suspended? Man why would owners ever agree to that? I wouldn't let some $#@! in the front office tell me what to do.
    Lol. I hear ya man. It just goes back to the fact that the NFL at the end of the day is a cartel- it’s not a marketplace. So the traditional exec structure doesn’t really hold up. You can be the owner of a team (Irsay)- but not be the BOSS (Goodell). Owners are probably comfortable with the language as is because

    1. Generally speaking they are grown ass men with families and important reputations. They stay home on weekends
    2. Those who do not stay home on weekends, are smart enough to pay for a driver or whatever is needed to keep it out of the newspaper.

    That’s just me guessing though.
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  13. #113
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    Just got back from Tallahassee and wanted to share my thoughts on a player who I felt was very, very impressive. For you sleuths out there, no I was NOT part of the Patriots or Chargers contingent down there over the weekend. Anyways, onto the good stuff

    Kelvin Benjamin – 6.05 241

    Positives:
    -Outstanding size. A true 6.05 with room for another 10 pounds of good weight, could play on Sundays at 250 or so and still retain his movement abilities.
    -Extremely long arms give him a wingspan that is fantastic. Huge catch radius will be a redzone threat from day 1.
    -Well built, thick lower body. Sufficient bulk in the upper body, good bubble and tapered ankles.
    -Well coordinated athlete. Does not overwhelm in this regard, but moves well for a man of his size and weight. Plays to 4.5 speed on tape, consistently eats up cushion with deceptive burst off the snap. Long stride can be a blessing and a curse.
    -Can legitimately threaten all 3 potions of the field. Flashes the ability to sink in and out of cuts.
    -Enormous hands and a natural hands catcher. Does not let the ball get into his frame, can make the circus grab and displays ability to easily snatch passes outside of his frame.

    Negatives:
    -Too many concentration drops
    -Limited experience, tape through ’12 was not impressive and showed an extremely raw player. Why did it take him so long to get on the field?
    -Has the ability to be a dominant on or off the ball blocker, but is average. Does not show the desire or technique required.
    -Can get his feet caught up underneath him and is not always comfortable with his speed, height and length can create issues with center of gravity. A good but not outstanding athlete. Will not run away from NFL corners, will require him to better use his size and length.
    -Faced virtually zero press in the ACC. Very difficult to know how the larger guys get off the press, since it’s rarely used at the collegiate level. Deceptive explosion off LOS but not a quick twitch player, could struggle against the range and power of some NFL corners.
    -Raw as a route runner and tactician. Does not finish his routes with aggressiveness, allows himself to drift and fade off of his route stem, does not show nuance in setting up the stem.
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  14. #114
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    Thoughts on Vick and Sanchez?

    I don't think Sanchez can play or at least at no more than a backup level and Vick isn't a pocket passer and with him being effective outside the pocket he can't seem to last a full season doing so.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Thoughts on Vick and Sanchez?

    I don't think Sanchez can play or at least at no more than a backup level and Vick isn't a pocket passer and with him being effective outside the pocket he can't seem to last a full season doing so.
    You more or less summed it up, good points all around. I know I have a scouting report on the Sanchize from ‘SC, but I didn’t write it. I’ll find it and post it here tonight, will be interesting to see if it bears out what we now know with access to results.

    RE: Vick- he’s an interesting signing for them. I like it. Could roll out of bed tomorrow and whip Geno Smith up and down the field from an ability standpoint. Health will be the issue, of course. And at this point he is what he is as a passer, that will never change.

    Look he’s still a pretty darn explosive athlete, every time he touches the ball he’s one of the fastest players on the field. The issue with Vick remains what has always been, he’s 6.00 at best and 215lbs soaking wet. He has a slight frame and just does not avoid contact, I don’t get it. In some ways I worry Robert Griffin will suffer the same fate. Similar builds, similar ability to break the pocket, similar refusal to get their ass on the ground and not take the huge shot.

    Look at ANY game played by Mike Vick over the last couple seasons, and he takes a handful of clean shots every time. I mean flush to his torso, the type of hits a tailback sees. Brady and Peyton go weeks on end without taking some of the licks he subjects himself to, and they are both much larger frames.

    But all in all I think it’s a good move from a pure football standpoint. I had a roughly 3-5th ground grade on Geno last year; do not think much of him as a player.
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  16. #116
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    The basic dilemma you just illustrated is why I always, always am hesitant to anoint the next “player X will change the game”.

    Seriously, who was the last player who fundamentally changed the way his position was played? I have never, ever seen a player who genuinely transcended the ideal qualities and responsibilities of the relevant position. Think about some truly dominant talents…Lawrence Taylor, Ronnie Lott, Dan Marino, Julius Peppers, Randy Moss, Adrian Peterson, Rob Gronkowski…all dominant, but did they change our expectation of the position? I’d argue no, across the board.

    So a quarterback who can break the pocket is all well and good- no question it is an asset and should be graded as one. But these guys who break the pocket are generally smaller, lighter players. The guys trying to tackle them are not so light, and not so small. So you got 6.01 210lb RG3 taking a clean shot to the ribs from 6.03 255LB Brandon Graham, or whoever. And what do you know, these players get hurt. I think the NFL is too hesitant to consider new tactics and ideas, but generally speaking, there is no such thing as “changing the game”. It’s a media myth.
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  17. #117
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    I think Vick did change what a quarterback can be in the sense that you do not have to be a pocket passer although that is the general mold. Vick can force a defense to have to make one of the linebackers a spy which can open up some space due to the threat of the run. I just haven't seen anyone actually take this formula to a superbowl.

    We all know pocket passers have won it. I think the position can evolve though and certainly speedier linebackers have changed what they can do in the passing game as Belichick certainly likes to drop his linebackers back into passing coverage.

    As far a complete fundamental change of a position? I don't even know if that is possible.

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    All fair points, but as you note, the degree to which Vick changed what is expected out of the position is very much up for debate. He’s never won a game of real consequence outside of his rookie season, and it’s been largely due to his inability to win from the pocket. The league is simply too full of talent for any one player to substantively alter the expectations for the position.

    And to your point about the game becoming faster, more spread out, etc. It’s certainly true we’re seeing more long, linear corners outside, with smaller, faster front 7 players.

    But watch how the league reacts to it- more 12 personnel, more power iso blocking, more wham and trap concepts in the run game. They’ll get a hat on a hat, and a 230lb inside ‘backer is not shedding a 310lb guard. So then you’ll see the return of larger, sturdier inside players. And we’re back to square one.

    Longer, larger corners playing more man means the premium on reactive athleticism is receding. So what will offenses do to counter the Richard Shermans of the world? Test their movement skills, get smaller, faster players out in space. Run jet sweeps right at isolated corners on the boundary- NE used to do this against Revis and it was effective. If you shade the entire defense over to one side bc you trust your start corner, there is now a grand total of 1 defensive player outside the hash to that side. Just get the ball in the hands of a playmaker and let him attack the “naked” side. It’s such a chess match.

    This is why I love the tactical aspect of the NFL. Teams try new things, the league observes, adjusts, and usually ends up phasing it out. Remember how successful NE was with its 11 (two TE base) personnel a few seasons ago? It was to become the “blueprint”, except it proved almost impossible to replicate. Now there are very few teams that are even attempting it as a base, you need special talent at the position and it’s a PITA to do.
    Last edited by 135pats; 03-26-2014 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Holy wall of text batman
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  19. #119
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    I see things change pretty fast. I remember NE having success and I also remember their defense struggling against a 'gimmick' formation in the wildcat. They quickly adjusted though. The wildcat now seems abandoned but a fast QB definitely makes it more of a threat.

    We will see how strategy evolves. I'd like to see less restrictions on formations. The tight end makes things interesting these days with how that position is being used. I'd like to see more development in speed on the line. What if some quicker lineman can get further upfield quicker to block linebackers to open up the running game for example?

    We'll see what happens but with Clowney it seems there is an emphasis on speed and size these days. To offset it maybe you need even more size. Lines are getting heavier that is for sure.

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    Something that came to mind as I watch some cutups of a few Missou guys…Always scout traits and talent, never-ever allow yourself to scout production. Production at the collegiate level is close to useless as a measure of NFL potential. The best players show objective, quantifiable traits that can be seen on tape. Do not allow yourself to be distracted by gaudy numbers and production. Sometimes you see the #s these college guys put up and it’s just startling. Important to stay grounded in that reality, easier said than done. Access to results changes everything.
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  21. #121
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    Manziel threw the ball quite well this morning. Always tough to really gauge these throwing sessions, but I only saw about 3 passes I’d consider “poor” from a placement standpoint. As expected his footwork was a mess, but frankly that’ll never be his game. There is no chance he is over 6.00 by the way, just no shot. Threw several nice verts but again, I’m not seeing the ability to really drive it. If I were a cold weather team that would concern me, I see some Mark Sanchez in that he can make all the throws, but questionable velocity and what I call a “high effort” thrower. Watch Matthew Stafford or Ryan Mallett spin it, it’s just effortless. NFL pockets are a messy, cluttered place. Need to be able to get the ball out with velocity in non-optimal situations. Now those guys have rare arm talent, but the point stands. I wanted to see him do a few more stick type throws that require late velocity on the throw, but it’s his show. To that point- what a ridiculous spectacle. He needs to settle his ass down with that type of nonsense, and I’m not exactly an old crank. A good showing though, some team is going to fall in love with him.
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    People seem to be making a big deal of Manziel's pro day. I don't put too much stock in this pro day stuff.

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    Apparently the Patriots are working out Manziel and considering drafting him. Any truth to them taking him in the first round if he falls?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Apparently the Patriots are working out Manziel and considering drafting him. Any truth to them taking him in the first round if he falls?
    I wonít/canít get into speculation about who will draft who, but a few thoughts.

    1. This is media driven, bottom line. Important to keep perspective.

    2. Teams are allowed numerous in-person work outs. There are numerous ulterior motives for bringing a prospect in- and many have nothing to do with an intention to draft him. For instance- letís say NE feels that Manziel could be a target for the Bills or Jets if he slides just a bit? They have 0 prior contact with him, so this is a unique and singular opportunity to get inside his head. What does he do well? Where does he struggle? What concepts confuse him? Advance scouting would be the formal term for it.

    3. NE in particular has visits with players who they have 0 intention of drafting. Bill doesnít care what you or I think, truly.

    4. The first round is ridiculously volatile. No team ďknowsĒ who theyíre going to draft, not even the Texans. It all depends on how the board shakes out, which of course is impossible to know in advance. As such, it behooves you to have at least a baseline of knowledge on certain players.

    5. They also had Bridgewater in this morning, for whatever thatís worth. Iíve heard theyíll be hosting Savage from Pitt in the near future as well. Bill worked out Bortles about a week ago.

    So ultimately, in my opinion this is nothing more than due diligence. Itís smart on their part- stirs up the media types, confuses other teams (though it really shouldnít), and leverages the only opportunity they will ever get to have these guys in their building, on their terms. Huge opportunity to advance scout a rookie QB.
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    So what do we think of Jackson signing in DC? I absolutely loved his game coming out of Cal, and obviously it’s transferred over at the pro level. He is every bit the headache described, however. Was an open secret that he was running with the wrong crowd, though in fairness to him, he has never been charged with anything “gang related”.
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