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  1. #426
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by paradoxical3 Click here to enlarge
    Pontet-Canet is still like $175 for the good recent years (03, 05). Can you throw out a few $35 bdx that are worth drinking? Would love to pick a few up.
    Ya it has gotten expensive which was the point I was trying to make regarding the growths (classes) of French wine.

    Take a look at this. Anything on this list in your price range: http://images.winespectator.com/wso/...0AtAGlance.pdf

    Look at number 70 for example.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Take a look at this. Anything on this list in your price range: http://images.winespectator.com/wso/...0AtAGlance.pdf
    Look at number 70 for example.
    saved for future reference, merci beaucoup!

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    Interesting article about wine tasting:

    http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bulls...-why-496098276

    Wine tasting is bull$#@!. Here's why.

    The human palate is arguably the weakest of the five traditional senses. This begs an important question regarding wine tasting: is it bull$#@!, or is it complete and utter bull$#@!?

    There are no two ways about it: the bull$#@! is strong with wine. Wine tasting. Wine rating. Wine reviews. Wine descriptions. They're all related. And they're all egregious offenders, from a bull$#@! standpoint.

    Exhibit A: Wine experts contradict themselves. Constantly.

    Statistician and wine-lover Robert Hodgson recently analyzed a series of wine competitions in California, after "wondering how wines, such as his own, [could] win a gold medal at one competition, and 'end up in the pooper' at others." In one study, Hodgson presented blindfolded wine experts with the same wine three times in succession. Incredibly, the judges' ratings typically varied by ±4 points on a standard ratings scale running from 80 to 100. Via the Wall Street Journal:

    A wine rated 91 on one tasting would often be rated an 87 or 95 on the next. Some of the judges did much worse, and only about one in 10 regularly rated the same wine within a range of ±2 points.

    Mr. Hodgson also found that the judges whose ratings were most consistent in any given year landed in the middle of the pack in other years, suggesting that their consistent performance that year had simply been due to chance.
    It bears repeating that the judges Hodgson surveyed were no ordinary taste-testers. These were judges at California State Fair wine competition – the oldest and most prestigious in North America. If you think you can consistently rate the "quality" of wine, it means two things:

    1: No. You can't.

    2. Wine-tasting is bull$#@!.

    Exhibit B: Expert wine critics can't distinguish between red and white wines

    This one's one of my favorites. In 2001, researcher Frédéric Brochet invited 54 wine experts to give their opinions on what were ostensibly two glasses of different wine: one red, and one white. In actuality, the two wines were identical, with one exception: the "red" wine had been dyed with food coloring.

    The experts described the "red" wine in language typically reserved for characterizing reds. They called it "jammy," for example, and noted the flavors imparted by its "crushed red fruit." Not one of the 54 experts surveyed noticed that it was, in fact a white wine.

    Exhibit C: We taste with our eyes, not our mouths

    Actually, scratch that. We taste with our eyes, ears, noses, and even our sense of touch. We taste with our emotions, and our state of mind. This has been demonstrated time after time after time.

    Research out of Cornell University's Food and Brand Lab has shown that people will rate food as more enjoyable if it's consumed in the relaxed atmosphere of a fine dining environment, as opposed to a noisy fast food restaurant.

    A 2006 study, published by the American Association of Wine Economists, found that most people can't distinguish between paté and dog food.

    A recent New Yorker piece describes a followup to Brochet's 2001 study, wherein he served wine experts a run-of-the-mill Bordeaux in two different bottles:

    One bottle bore the label of a fancy grand cru, the other of an ordinary vin de table. Although they were being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the bottles nearly opposite descriptions. The grand cru was summarized as being “agreeable,” “woody,” “complex,” “balanced,” and “rounded,” while the most popular adjectives for the vin de table included “weak,” “short,” “light,” “flat,” and “faulty.”
    Exhibit D: Wine critics know wine reviews are bull$#@!

    Here's Joe Power, editor of the popular Another Wine Blog, in a post titled "Wine Reviews are Bull$#@!!":

    Today, with apologies to messieurs Penn and Teller, I am going to stand up and shout, “Wine reviews are bull$#@!!”

    If you are wondering if this is going to be some justification of why our reviews at AWB are just spiffy and everyone else is full of $#@!, you can stop wondering; ours are bull$#@! too. It is just the nature of the beast.

    There is no hard science involved in reviewing wine, no real way to quantify results, no test cases, and certainly no verifiable set of standards that everyone adheres to. Everyone makes up their own processes for reviewing from Wine Spectator to us and all of the way down to the most recent person who just discovered how easy it is to set up a blog of their own.
    When asked point blank what he thought of the aforementioned results from Robert Hodgson's study (see Exhibit A) wine-maker Bob Cabral said he was "not surprised":

    In Mr. Cabral's view, wine ratings are influenced by uncontrolled factors such as the time of day, the number of hours since the taster last ate and the other wines in the lineup. He also says critics taste too many wines in too short a time. As a result, he says, "I would expect a taster's rating of the same wine to vary by at least three, four, five points from tasting to tasting."
    See? Horse$#@!.

    Exhibits E – ZZZ: Countless other studies

    In 1996, research published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology concluded that wine experts cannot reliably identify more than three or four of a wine's flavor components. Most wine critics routinely report tasting six or more. The wine review excerpted in the top image for this post, for example (which is a real review, by the way – somebody actually wrote those words about a bottle of wine, in earnest) lists the following components in the wine's "principle flavor" profile: "red roses, lavender, geranium, dried hibiscus flowers, cranberry raisins, currant jelly, mango with skins [Ed. note: jesus wine-swilling christ – mango with skins?], red plums, cobbler, cinnamon, star anise, blackberry bramble, whole black peppercorn," and more than a dozen other flavors that I refuse to continue listing lest my head implode.

    Fun fact: MIT behavioral economist Coco Krume recently conducted a meta-analysis of the classifiers used in wine reviews, and found that reviewers tend to use "cheap" and "expensive" words differently. Cheap descriptors are used much more frequently, expensive ones more sparingly. Krume even demonstrated that it's possible to guess the price range of a wine based on the words used in its review. "From a quantitative standpoint," Krume writes, "there are three types of words more likely to be used for expensive wines":

    Darker words, such as intense, supple, velvety, and smoky
    Single flavors such as tobacco or chocolate versus fruity, good, clean, tasty, juicy for cheap wines
    Exclusive-sounding words in place of simple descriptors. For example, old, elegant, and cuveerather than pleasing, refreshing, value,and enjoy
    Additionally, cheap wine is preferentially paired with chicken and pizza, while pricey wine goes with shellfish and pork
    Using her scientific metric, Krume goes on to create the most expensive-sounding wine review ever penned: "A velvety chocolate texture and enticingly layered, yet creamy, nose, this wine abounds with focused cassis and a silky ruby finish. Lush, elegant, and nuanced. Pair with pork and shellfish." If that sentence made you yearn for a glass of classy red, congratulations, there's a very real chance you're a pompous $#@!.

    The Exception

    You want an exception to the wine-tasting is bull$#@! mantra? Here it is.

    In 2008, a survey comprising more than 6,000 blind tastings found a positive correlation between price and enjoyment – for individuals with wine training. In other words: if you're a wine expert, there's a chance you'll enjoy expensive wines more than cheaper ones. HOWEVER, it bears emphatic mentioning that whether this suggests more expensive wines are objectively better (which it doesn't) is irrelevant, because among amateur wine drinkers (which, let's face it, you are), the survey found the opposite, i.e. a negative correlation between price and happiness, “suggesting that individuals on average enjoy more expensive wines slightly less.” This lead the researchers to conclude that "both the prices of wines and wine recommendations by experts may be poor guides for non-expert wine consumers."

    The upshot: screw the experts. Drink what tastes good/whatever you can afford. Or just have a beer – it's unequivocally better, anyway

  4. #429
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    Interesting article about wine tasting:

    http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bull$...-why-496098276

    Wine tasting is bull$#@!. Here's why.

    The human palate is arguably the weakest of the five traditional senses. This begs an important question regarding wine tasting: is it bull$#@!, or is it complete and utter bull$#@!?

    There are no two ways about it: the bull$#@! is strong with wine. Wine tasting. Wine rating. Wine reviews. Wine descriptions. They're all related. And they're all egregious offenders, from a bull$#@! standpoint.

    Exhibit A: Wine experts contradict themselves. Constantly.

    Statistician and wine-lover Robert Hodgson recently analyzed a series of wine competitions in California, after "wondering how wines, such as his own, [could] win a gold medal at one competition, and 'end up in the pooper' at others." In one study, Hodgson presented blindfolded wine experts with the same wine three times in succession. Incredibly, the judges' ratings typically varied by ±4 points on a standard ratings scale running from 80 to 100. Via the Wall Street Journal:

    A wine rated 91 on one tasting would often be rated an 87 or 95 on the next. Some of the judges did much worse, and only about one in 10 regularly rated the same wine within a range of ±2 points.

    Mr. Hodgson also found that the judges whose ratings were most consistent in any given year landed in the middle of the pack in other years, suggesting that their consistent performance that year had simply been due to chance.
    It bears repeating that the judges Hodgson surveyed were no ordinary taste-testers. These were judges at California State Fair wine competition – the oldest and most prestigious in North America. If you think you can consistently rate the "quality" of wine, it means two things:

    1: No. You can't.

    2. Wine-tasting is bull$#@!.

    Exhibit B: Expert wine critics can't distinguish between red and white wines

    This one's one of my favorites. In 2001, researcher Frédéric Brochet invited 54 wine experts to give their opinions on what were ostensibly two glasses of different wine: one red, and one white. In actuality, the two wines were identical, with one exception: the "red" wine had been dyed with food coloring.

    The experts described the "red" wine in language typically reserved for characterizing reds. They called it "jammy," for example, and noted the flavors imparted by its "crushed red fruit." Not one of the 54 experts surveyed noticed that it was, in fact a white wine.

    Exhibit C: We taste with our eyes, not our mouths

    Actually, scratch that. We taste with our eyes, ears, noses, and even our sense of touch. We taste with our emotions, and our state of mind. This has been demonstrated time after time after time.

    Research out of Cornell University's Food and Brand Lab has shown that people will rate food as more enjoyable if it's consumed in the relaxed atmosphere of a fine dining environment, as opposed to a noisy fast food restaurant.

    A 2006 study, published by the American Association of Wine Economists, found that most people can't distinguish between paté and dog food.

    A recent New Yorker piece describes a followup to Brochet's 2001 study, wherein he served wine experts a run-of-the-mill Bordeaux in two different bottles:

    One bottle bore the label of a fancy grand cru, the other of an ordinary vin de table. Although they were being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the bottles nearly opposite descriptions. The grand cru was summarized as being “agreeable,” “woody,” “complex,” “balanced,” and “rounded,” while the most popular adjectives for the vin de table included “weak,” “short,” “light,” “flat,” and “faulty.”
    Exhibit D: Wine critics know wine reviews are bull$#@!

    Here's Joe Power, editor of the popular Another Wine Blog, in a post titled "Wine Reviews are Bull$#@!!":

    Today, with apologies to messieurs Penn and Teller, I am going to stand up and shout, “Wine reviews are bull$#@!!”

    If you are wondering if this is going to be some justification of why our reviews at AWB are just spiffy and everyone else is full of $#@!, you can stop wondering; ours are bull$#@! too. It is just the nature of the beast.

    There is no hard science involved in reviewing wine, no real way to quantify results, no test cases, and certainly no verifiable set of standards that everyone adheres to. Everyone makes up their own processes for reviewing from Wine Spectator to us and all of the way down to the most recent person who just discovered how easy it is to set up a blog of their own.
    When asked point blank what he thought of the aforementioned results from Robert Hodgson's study (see Exhibit A) wine-maker Bob Cabral said he was "not surprised":

    In Mr. Cabral's view, wine ratings are influenced by uncontrolled factors such as the time of day, the number of hours since the taster last ate and the other wines in the lineup. He also says critics taste too many wines in too short a time. As a result, he says, "I would expect a taster's rating of the same wine to vary by at least three, four, five points from tasting to tasting."
    See? Horse$#@!.

    Exhibits E – ZZZ: Countless other studies

    In 1996, research published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology concluded that wine experts cannot reliably identify more than three or four of a wine's flavor components. Most wine critics routinely report tasting six or more. The wine review excerpted in the top image for this post, for example (which is a real review, by the way – somebody actually wrote those words about a bottle of wine, in earnest) lists the following components in the wine's "principle flavor" profile: "red roses, lavender, geranium, dried hibiscus flowers, cranberry raisins, currant jelly, mango with skins [Ed. note: jesus wine-swilling christ – mango with skins?], red plums, cobbler, cinnamon, star anise, blackberry bramble, whole black peppercorn," and more than a dozen other flavors that I refuse to continue listing lest my head implode.

    Fun fact: MIT behavioral economist Coco Krume recently conducted a meta-analysis of the classifiers used in wine reviews, and found that reviewers tend to use "cheap" and "expensive" words differently. Cheap descriptors are used much more frequently, expensive ones more sparingly. Krume even demonstrated that it's possible to guess the price range of a wine based on the words used in its review. "From a quantitative standpoint," Krume writes, "there are three types of words more likely to be used for expensive wines":

    Darker words, such as intense, supple, velvety, and smoky
    Single flavors such as tobacco or chocolate versus fruity, good, clean, tasty, juicy for cheap wines
    Exclusive-sounding words in place of simple descriptors. For example, old, elegant, and cuveerather than pleasing, refreshing, value,and enjoy
    Additionally, cheap wine is preferentially paired with chicken and pizza, while pricey wine goes with shellfish and pork
    Using her scientific metric, Krume goes on to create the most expensive-sounding wine review ever penned: "A velvety chocolate texture and enticingly layered, yet creamy, nose, this wine abounds with focused cassis and a silky ruby finish. Lush, elegant, and nuanced. Pair with pork and shellfish." If that sentence made you yearn for a glass of classy red, congratulations, there's a very real chance you're a pompous $#@!.

    The Exception

    You want an exception to the wine-tasting is bull$#@! mantra? Here it is.

    In 2008, a survey comprising more than 6,000 blind tastings found a positive correlation between price and enjoyment – for individuals with wine training. In other words: if you're a wine expert, there's a chance you'll enjoy expensive wines more than cheaper ones. HOWEVER, it bears emphatic mentioning that whether this suggests more expensive wines are objectively better (which it doesn't) is irrelevant, because among amateur wine drinkers (which, let's face it, you are), the survey found the opposite, i.e. a negative correlation between price and happiness, “suggesting that individuals on average enjoy more expensive wines slightly less.” This lead the researchers to conclude that "both the prices of wines and wine recommendations by experts may be poor guides for non-expert wine consumers."

    The upshot: screw the experts. Drink what tastes good/whatever you can afford. Or just have a beer – it's unequivocally better, anyway
    Bull$#@!?

    Taste some two buck chuck and then have quality napa cab and tell me tasting is bull$#@!. You can be drunk out of your mind and still know the difference between the two.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Bull$#@!?

    Taste some two buck chuck and then have quality napa cab and tell me tasting is bull$#@!. You can be drunk out of your mind and still know the difference between the two.
    LOL, I knew that'd get a rise out of you, but youre prob the most qualified guy to refute the article. Click here to enlarge

    Actually you're spot on that the difference between a 2-buck cab and 7-buck cab IS noticeable. The difficulty is telling the difference between a $40 zin and $100 zin, I honestly couldn't tell the difference.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    The difficulty is telling the difference between a $40 zin and $100 zin, I honestly couldn't tell the difference.
    $ amount isn't everything. Take an average zin and an amazing zin that is top of the line and you'll know the difference. At least I hope so.

    There is a massive difference among the top wines and "average" stuff.

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  7. #432
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    cheap wine

    Click here to enlarge
    i give away free stickers...lol
    phillyb hates me!

  8. #433
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by phillyb™ Click here to enlarge
    Sacre bleu! We tried their cab and pinot, terrible! Not to mention the headache the following morning. o_O

    Here's my take on entry level wines you can even find at CVS:

    a) Bay Bridge cabernet $4
    b) Lindmans cabernet, pinot, or zinfandel $6
    c) Woodbridge cabernet or pinot $8

    Any other suggestions for decent wine <$10 ?

  9. #434
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    $ amount isn't everything. Take an average zin and an amazing zin that is top of the line and you'll know the difference. At least I hope so.

    There is a massive difference among the top wines and "average" stuff.
    No argument here.

    The question is that according to the above studies, the wine experts weren't even consistent when rating the same wines in succession; hence the conclusion that wine tasting reviews are bunk. Your thoughts?

  10. #435
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    Any other suggestions for decent wine <$10 ?
    '

    Ya, my suggestion is to skip two $10 bottles and get one $20 bottle.

    Less than $10? No thanks.

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  11. #436
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    The question is that according to the above studies, the wine experts weren't even consistent when rating the same wines in succession; hence the conclusion that wine tasting reviews are bunk. Your thoughts?
    I think once you have some wine it affects your judgement.

    Robert Parker is the premier critic and said to be able to taste 100 wines a day. He's the best of the best.

    I think to review wine well you need to spit, not swallow (someone will make a joke here), and definitely avoid getting inebriated.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    Sacre bleu! We tried their cab and pinot, terrible! Not to mention the headache the following morning. o_O

    Here's my take on entry level wines you can even find at CVS:

    a) Bay Bridge cabernet $4
    b) Lindmans cabernet, pinot, or zinfandel $6
    c) Woodbridge cabernet or pinot $8

    Any other suggestions for decent wine <$10 ?
    Gnarly Head Zin (2009+) - $8
    There are a number of Old Vine Zins out of Lodi and Dry Creek that are fantastic. Many are less than $15.

    Another great value is Layer Cake's Malbec. $15, screw top, but excellent.

    -Rich

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
    Another great value is Layer Cake's Malbec. $15, screw top, but excellent.
    Screw top is actually preferable and Layer Cake is a great value. They re-use Hundred Acre French barrels, same owner I believe.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Screw top is actually preferable
    Totally agree. Unfortunately, not everyone has evolved to that point.

    -Rich

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
    Totally agree. Unfortunately, not everyone has evolved to that point.
    People are stupid.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    Sacre bleu! We tried their cab and pinot, terrible! Not to mention the headache the following morning. o_O

    Here's my take on entry level wines you can even find at CVS:

    a) Bay Bridge cabernet $4
    b) Lindmans cabernet, pinot, or zinfandel $6
    c) Woodbridge cabernet or pinot $8

    Any other suggestions for decent wine <$10 ?
    i actually really liked the merlot. but i don't think i've ever had _good_ wine in my life, so i can tolerate the 10-15 dollar bottles.
    and until i do indeed have good wine, i'll never know what i'm missing. lol
    i give away free stickers...lol
    phillyb hates me!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by phillyb™ Click here to enlarge
    i actually really liked the merlot. but i don't think i've ever had _good_ wine in my life, so i can tolerate the 10-15 dollar bottles.
    and until i do indeed have good wine, i'll never know what i'm missing. lol
    Good to hear they make at least one drinkable wine. Yeah im also not much of a wine aficionado, those under $10 tasted pretty good to me so no need to upgrade for the time being.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    Good to hear they make at least one drinkable wine. Yeah im also not much of a wine aficionado, those under $10 tasted pretty good to me so no need to upgrade for the time being.
    Don't try anything truly spectacular as it will ruin you...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Don't try anything truly spectacular as it will ruin you...
    +1

    At the last winery I stopped at $45, incredible zin from Paso Robles with full bouquet, balanced flavor, and smooth finish. I would've loved to get a half case even, but this hobby isn't as high priority.

    If you enjoy a vintage, do you get X quantity or by the case?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hifiguy@gaphix Click here to enlarge
    If you enjoy a vintage, do you get X quantity or by the case?
    I buy by the case only if it favors me by a huge margin monetarily. I get bored fast so I sort of like to have a few of everything.

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    Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  22. #447
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    Enjoying a 2004 Haut-Brion... this is pretty tasty.

    Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  23. #448
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    Found a way to use emojis
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  24. #449
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    We have tons of smileys...

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  25. #450
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    I see 15 Click here to enlarge

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