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  1. #1
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    Actual experience with M157 turbo upgrades in 4matic models? Particularly heavy ML63?

    I currently have the Renntech tune installed on my 2013 ML63. It was recommended that the plugs be changed as well and I was told that the tune would be somewhat more aggressive (or in the alternative, if I didn't change plugs, the plug would be slightly less aggressive). I also got the BMC filters for the hell of it. The car has trapped 118 mph on VBOX, so I know it is definitely making power.

    I am interested in doing a turbo upgrade and I am wondering what is done differently as far as tuning goes in the 4matic models particularly the heavier models, like my ML63. Looking on Renntech's site, it appears they already limit the tuned power on the 4matic models as opposed to the lighter RWD models.

    I am also not set on staying with Renntech if Weistec or AMS/Alpha has experience with a turbo upgrade operating reliably on an ML63. I am definitely not looking to be a guinea pig.

    Significantly more reliable power with little to no increase in exhaust noise is what I am looking for. Who can provide this?

    Also, what is involved in the ML63 labor wise to swap the turbos?
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    I don't know of anyone with upgraded turbos in the all wheel drive cars yet.

    That's the main question, how will the driveline hold up?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    Also, what is involved in the ML63 labor wise to swap the turbos?
    The labor should be similar to the other cars maybe less due to having more room to work with in the ML.

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    I have modded turbos but torque limitation makes the difference with the OEM turbos only after 200km/h. On Superflow i got 691hp at crank (13% losses) and 1100 Nm of torque. Hence until they find how to deal with those limitations stock turbos are the only option.

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    I guess the availability of 4matic on other models may "force" Renntech, Weistec or AMS/Alpha to do some R&D on the platform though until it is done on something as heavy as the ML63 (or, even heavier the G63 or GL63) we won't really know about durability. I would have to think that the weight of the vehicle has a lot to do with the drivetrain stresses.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Vasily1 Click here to enlarge
    I have modded turbos but torque limitation makes the difference with the OEM turbos only after 200km/h. On Superflow i got 691hp at crank (13% losses) and 1100 Nm of torque. Hence until they find how to deal with those limitations stock turbos are the only option.
    What do you mean after only 200 km/h?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    I guess the availability of 4matic on other models may "force" Renntech, Weistec or AMS/Alpha to do some R&D on the platform though until it is done on something as heavy as the ML63 (or, even heavier the G63 or GL63) we won't really know about durability. I would have to think that the weight of the vehicle has a lot to do with the drivetrain stresses.
    Weight is a factor of course but we don't know if the 4Matic will be as strong as the rear wheel drive cars. Other problems present themselves with all wheel drive. When you launch and hook that is a lot of stress on the drivetrain. With rear wheel drive tire spin actually helps alleviate stress.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know of anyone with upgraded turbos in the all wheel drive cars yet.

    That's the main question, how will the driveline hold up?
    Done CLS63 Smodel, E63 Smodel, GL550, etc since last year. Drivetrain will hold up just fine... and now W222 S63 4matic.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    Done CLS63 Smodel, E63 Smodel, GL550, etc since last year. Drivetrain will hold up just fine... and now W222 S63 4matic.
    So with upgraded turbos it's fine?

    But at what point does it become a concern or will it not be with current upgraded turbo torque levels?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So with upgraded turbos it's fine?

    But at what point does it become a concern or will it not be with current upgraded turbo torque levels?
    Torque levels can be kept under 1100Nm & no issues for stock transmission. It's all in the code.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    Torque levels can be kept under 1100Nm & no issues for stock transmission. It's all in the code.
    Thank you.

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    Well, i mean that when i raced against the tune+catless exhaust car by the same Gorilla tuner, 100-200km/h we went pretty even, may be i was half car length ahead, but then and until 300 i was ahead for 5-6 car lengths or so.

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    Anyway my upgraded by Renntech turbos should already be in their German subsidiary and i am only waiting for Lukas' sign off to get my car there for an 850+ kit.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Vasily1 Click here to enlarge
    Anyway my upgraded by Renntech turbos should already be in their German subsidiary and i am only waiting for Lukas' sign off to get my car there for an 850+ kit.
    Awesome, congrats.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Vasily1 Click here to enlarge
    Anyway my upgraded by Renntech turbos should already be in their German subsidiary and i am only waiting for Lukas' sign off to get my car there for an 850+ kit.
    Hi Vasily1,

    Those special 850+ CHRA's Dragtimes Moscow specials are sitting in my desk now. Should be done this month Click here to enlarge. PM if you need any additional details.

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    That's great! Can't wait to get all the bolt-ons and try it in the upcomming Moscow Unlim500+ against my friends' MKB SL65 BS 1000+ and Brabus E63 RWD 850+ and Audi RS6 Sportmile 950+. Currently Audi holds a record for a standing mile (27,04).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    Done CLS63 Smodel, E63 Smodel, GL550, etc since last year. Drivetrain will hold up just fine... and now W222 S63 4matic.
    Tell me more about the GL550 that was done. I am particularly interested in how far the heavier models equipped with the M157 and 4matic have done with turbo upgrades, but the GL550 is a start if there are no others.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    Tell me more about the GL550 that was done. I am particularly interested in how far the heavier models equipped with the M157 and 4matic have done with turbo upgrades, but the GL550 is a start if there are no others.
    @m54b25
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    Guess nobody wants to sell me any turbos, lol.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    Guess nobody wants to sell me any turbos, lol.
    What happened, did nobody get back to you?
    @Weistec @m54b25 @ALPHA Performance
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What happened, did nobody get back to you?
    @Weistec @m54b25 @ALPHA Performance
    Roger that. I did speak with Eric from AMS on GTRLife and confirmed that AMS has not had the chance to yet do turbos on one of the 4matic SUVs.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    Roger that. I did speak with Eric from AMS on GTRLife and confirmed that AMS has not had the chance to yet do turbos on one of the 4matic SUVs.
    Gotcha. Wouldn't be surprised they spend more time on the GTR forums. Gotta change that Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    Roger that. I did speak with Eric from AMS on GTRLife and confirmed that AMS has not had the chance to yet do turbos on one of the 4matic SUVs.
    You can always reach RENNtech directly:

    http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/#

    RENNTECH, Inc.
    1369 N Killian DR
    Lake Park, FL 33403
    Tel: 561.845.7888
    Fax: 561.845.6777
    www.renntechmercedes.com
    OFFICE HOURS

    Mon-Fri: 8:30AM - 5:30PM EST
    Sat-Sun: By appointment only

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Vasily1 Click here to enlarge
    That's great! Can't wait to get all the bolt-ons and try it in the upcomming Moscow Unlim500+ against my friends' MKB S65 BS 1000+ and Brabus E63 RWD 850+ and Audi RS6 Sportmile 950+. Currently Audi holds a record for a standing mile (27,04).
    Hi Vasily, this will be a great showdown at Moscow Unlimited!! How is your friends MKB Sl65 BS 1000+ running? I know only 1 car of them in Germany running, and it was never really proved on the road, that it had real 1000+ HP...

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    Hi, well as i know both Brabus and MKB are still working. E63-850 is promised to be ready by the end of February. As for MKB i don't know yet.

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