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Thread: Crank Walk

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    Crank Walk

    After recently having upgraded to a Spec II+ Hybrid a few weeks ago (Extremely satisfied btw!!) I ran across this article regarding crank walk with high pressure plates.

    A word about crankwalk:

    It isn't so much the grippyness of the clutch that kills the thrust bearings or the power the motor is making, is the increased clamp loads on some pressure plates such as ACT and RPS that are used to get more friction and thus hold more power. With the factory clutch start switch, you must depress the clutch to start the car; when the motor is not running there is no oil between the thrust bearings and block/crankshaft, so it's essentially metal on metal which is not how the bearing is supposed to operate. At factory clamp loads this is not a huge issue unless you own a DSM, but increasing the clamp loads with a stiffer pressure plate puts more stress on the thrust bearing every time you start the car with the clutch pressed. The wear on the thrust bearing is also not the biggest issue, but the design of it where it will fall into the rotating assembly if it wears too much and do lots of bad things.

    2 Solutions:0
    - Disable clutch start switch (illegal on cars after 1990 or something like that even though most nissans in the 90s didn't have them). I've done this and I see no signs of crankwalk on my heavy pressure plated-2jz

    -Get new thrust bearings and pull small tack welds to hold them to the block, so they can never fall down into the rotating assembly. This is a bit overkill IMO but if you have access to them, its a bit of added security for relatively cheap. Even just changing the thrust bearings periodically is sufficient I'd think, if you insist on leaving the clutch-start enabled


    **
    The clutch start doesn't necessarily have anything to do with lubrication, its the fact that without the engine running, there is no lubrication and you're applying direct thrust from the pressure plate to an otherwise un lubricated bearing. Pretty much the only time the crankshaft sees any signifant amount of thrust is during clutching, the power strokes are all acting radially aswell any tension from the drive belts and torsional resistance from the clutch/tranny/tires.

    Wondering if this is something to be concerned about.??

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    I've never heard of any N54 suffering any crank walk, but I don't know everything.
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    This is the first time I've heard of crank walk being a concern for the N54 world Click here to enlarge

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    man, this thread had me going back in time. Was just shopping a stock Black 1999 GSX with low mileage. Absolutely impossible to find. If anyone has a black/black 1999 gsx with less than 60k miles for a reasonable price then hit me up. Sadly, things get cheaper and cheaper, until the point they get more expensive.

    EDIT: Also, needs to be a 6 bolt motor lol. No 7 bolt = crank walk.
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    Lol as soon as I saw this post I thought about my old GSX

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    man, this thread had me going back in time. Was just shopping a stock Black 1999 GSX with low mileage. Absolutely impossible to find. If anyone has a black/black 1999 gsx with less than 60k miles for a reasonable price then hit me up. Sadly, things get cheaper and cheaper, until the point they get more expensive.

    EDIT: Also, needs to be a 6 bolt motor lol. No 7 bolt = crank walk.
    My next car will be a 2G GSX Click here to enlarge I've been looking around too. You're never going to find one with less than 60k miles. Why would a 7 bolt matter? Wouldn't you prefer to grab a 6 bolt and build it yourself? That's what i plan to do. I just saw a 6 bolt bare block for $150 LOL. check out DSM/EVO Owners Parts Trader on Facebook and DSMtuners forum.
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


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    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


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    I'm hoping someone had a stock body 6bolt swap, save me the headache. What's the aftermarket like? Is it still easy to get parts or is it fading? Building it I'm not opposed to. I mention 6 bolt because I e heard of and many 7 bolts walking. I had a 1995 and it was broke down for like 7 hears I towed it from house to house until I finally had to sell it when I had to move to a condo where I didn't have garage space. I always loved my eclipse. But I couldn't have a 2005 330i, a 2007 335i and a broken Eclipse all at a condo. I said I'd never sell it, but life got in the way.
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    Wth are they talking about tack welding bearings???
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    Quick question since I've been out of the dsm game since 04, what power are these things putting down on e85 without dumping stupid money? Also I like my luxuries, and would likely add weight by dampening the body and interior and tear it apart to eliminate every rattle(my biggest gripe were the doors). What times is a "full built", 2g gsx cutting with top and bottom end work and fully loaded options? If I can't cut 10's in street form I may look at keeping it near stock and saving the novelty.
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    Blast from the past...

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    Couldn't help myself.
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    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    There's a 625HP 2G e85 car with GT35r on it running 10.6 here. You're not going to go faster for cheaper than a GSX. SO many parts for them.
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


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    I found a couple rollers for around $800-1200. Get a motor and build it for $1500. Build tranny and TC for $200-3000. Great turbo kit $1500-2000. E85 fuel system $1500. Now you have a mid 10 sec car for $9200 max. Can't beat that
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I found a couple rollers for around $800-1200. Get a motor and build it for $1500. Build tranny and TC for $200-3000. Great turbo kit $1500-2000. E85 fuel system $1500. Now you have a mid 10 sec car for $9200 max. Can't beat that
    How good was the roller though? I'm going to be a little particular about the shape the body is in. I also don't think theres going to be as many parted out 1999's lol.
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    You're too picky haha. It's a 14 year old car. If you want a perfect body you'll prob have to get it painted. That's what I'm going to do. Mitsubishi paint sucks anyways. I'm more concerned with interiors. I can't just go to mitsu and buy new tan leather seats.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Couldn't help myself.
    Awesomeness!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    You're too picky haha. It's a 14 year old car. If you want a perfect body you'll prob have to get it painted. That's what I'm going to do. Mitsubishi paint sucks anyways. I'm more concerned with interiors. I can't just go to mitsu and buy new tan leather seats.
    I was going to have all the leather redone if I got one. I'd be more concerned with all the plastic molded pieces warping and rattling. That includes the pieces in the back seats and trunk. Always seems like that stuff is POS and makes me appreciate my BMWs.
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    My buddy just picked up a 99 GSX AUTO. He doesn't like the auto either. I'm lurking around for the day he says he wants to get rid of it to get a manual and I'm snatching it up! Lol. Auto GSX are fast as hell!!
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


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    I think I'd prefer the manual. The purpose for me would be weekend fun car, not rush hour dd or drag queen.
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    I'm going drag car for sure haha. AT FTMFW!
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    This happened to a race team on their N52 race motor. They had to crank a built race motor with a stiff clutch for a long period to get it to start. Someone thought the clutch had to be pushed in to start, but it had a standalone Bosch MS ECU. The prolonged cranking with low/no oil pressure damaged the thrust bearing.

    The N52 and N54 (and N55 I assume, too) have only ONE HALF of a thrust bearing - main #3 top shell.

    I have wondered/slightly worried about this problem being a possibility, too. I don't know how you would disable the clutch sensor, since it is not just a switch. It's a non-contact position sensor. If you mess with it, it would probably throw codes in the CAS, DME, and/or DSC.

    This can be checked easily with the transmission off and a dial indicator. Might be something to look into for those with really heavy clutches that daily drive.

    As an aside, how is the feel/effort on the Spec clutches? Stage 2, 2+, etc? I bought an ACT last year, and I was immediately unhappy with the pedal effort. It's less than before, but still significantly stiffer than stock.
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    Non contact position sensor= hall sensor. Just get it close to where it needs to be and glue it/secure it in that position.
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    I had a Spec Stage 3+ with aluminum FW. The pedal is a little stiffer than stock which I liked. The clutch started to engage pretty low to the floor but didn't engage completely until a little higher than stock so I caught myself slipping it alot. I could tell that when i lifted the clutch pedal just an inch or two that it would start to engage and i could start to roll the car forward. But if I was launching it it wouldn't fully engage until a little higher than stock. Like i said, it was a real $#@! to launch because of this.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    This happened to a race team on their N52 race motor. They had to crank a built race motor with a stiff clutch for a long period to get it to start. Someone thought the clutch had to be pushed in to start, but it had a standalone Bosch MS ECU. The prolonged cranking with low/no oil pressure damaged the thrust bearing.

    The N52 and N54 (and N55 I assume, too) have only ONE HALF of a thrust bearing - main #3 top shell.

    I have wondered/slightly worried about this problem being a possibility, too. I don't know how you would disable the clutch sensor, since it is not just a switch. It's a non-contact position sensor. If you mess with it, it would probably throw codes in the CAS, DME, and/or DSC.

    This can be checked easily with the transmission off and a dial indicator. Might be something to look into for those with really heavy clutches that daily drive.

    As an aside, how is the feel/effort on the Spec clutches? Stage 2, 2+, etc? I bought an ACT last year, and I was immediately unhappy with the pedal effort. It's less than before, but still significantly stiffer than stock.
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Non contact position sensor= hall sensor. Just get it close to where it needs to be and glue it/secure it in that position.
    That would mean the CAS, DME, DSC, and LDM (logitudinal dynamics module or cruise control) all see the clutch pedal down at all times. That is where the implausible codes come in. Maybe you could 'adjust' the position so you still have to push it down a little bit, but not enough to really load the throwout bearing and crank thrust bearing for startup.
    James Muskopf
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