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  1. #26
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    There is always a way. It may not be practical or cheap but there will be a way.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    I've noticed that harrower seems very knowledgeable and forthright - any thoughts on this? Will people only have piggyback solutions available for "tuning," or perhaps even those wouldn't work?
    There is always a way, always. Software is software, they have been trying to do this with basically everything forever. All it will do is slow the process down, not eliminate it.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
    There is always a way. It may not be practical or cheap but there will be a way.
    Great minds, yadda yadda yadda.
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  4. #29
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    I was just re-reading the "What parameters..." thread on MBW, and sifting through all the posts, one excellent post stood out and seems intriguing.

    I've noticed that harrower seems very knowledgeable and forthright - any thoughts on this? Will people only have piggyback solutions available for "tuning," or perhaps even those wouldn't work?
    Dave's a bright guy with a lot of connections and he is correct.

    I'm not one of the guys that's ever said EFI, OBDII, etc was the end of tuning, google your heart out, you won't find anything close however hese new super encrypted processors are. They are already in use in the 2010 Panamera TT, 2010 Audi S4 (no the BS canbus tuners available for this car are not real tuning nor do they achieve anywhere near the results a real remap of the ECU file would) and no one's made a dent in over 1.5 years of working on them. I don't mean tuners on this side of the world either, I mean the guys over in Europe that make the tools and software that nearly everyone uses to remap with.

    Even if the encryption keys for the Siemens (now Continental) 104 byte RSA encrypted processors were leaked ala N54 the CPU lockout is not defeatable.

    Manufacturers have been tolerating the aftermarket for a long time, however with stricter emissions regulations and this garbage economy (causing them to monitor and crack down on driveline warranty fraud even further), the time for tuning is coming to an end. By 2013-2014 everyone will be using these processors, and if you can't control the software end, hardware is useless. Increasing pressure from Green parties and misguided politicians will also play into making "tuning" illegal in this country in the next 5-10 years--add 1 degree of timing, go to jail. There are ways around this, like moving operations to a different country for instance, but it's still a pathetic sign of how far we've fallen for the current envirofad and as a pussified country. They way they see it, we just increase pollution, even though the truth is the complete opposite; a tuned motor is an efficient air pump that will see increased fuel economy at part throttle. HP is not the enemy but they will paint it like that guaranteed.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There is always a way, always. Software is software, they have been trying to do this with basically everything forever. All it will do is slow the process down, not eliminate it.
    Huge advances in automotive computer software encryption have been made in the past few years, combined with the current environmental factors listed above the door that was purposefully left cracked open will be slammed shut and double pad locked. There are many variables beyond what I posted with the new processors, each one is a landmark in it's own right as far as keeping us out.

    There are plenty of badass vehicles for us to modify at this point in 2010, but it will mark the end of an era when the last manufacturer switches over.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Manufacturers have been tolerating the aftermarket for a long time
    Some more than others. Frankly, BMW is pissing me off with their anti-tuning BS.

    If the BMW performance program consisted of more than carbon spoilers and was more like the Ford Racing program, we wouldn't have to look elsewhere for everything.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Some more than others. Frankly, BMW is pissing me off with their anti-tuning BS.
    Hey at least they offer a motorsports catalogue, MB/AMG is probably the worst at helping the end user achieve more performance.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Some more than others. Frankly, BMW is pissing me off with their anti-tuning BS.

    If the BMW performance program consisted of more than carbon spoilers and was more like the Ford Racing program, we wouldn't have to look elsewhere for everything.
    I thought they even offered the 4.4L in the Euro GTS no?

  9. #34
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    if it was created by a man, it can be hacked by a man.. not easy, but everyting can be cracked. now if it can be crackd w/o them knowing is a different story

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Hey at least they offer a motorsports catalogue, MB/AMG is probably the worst at helping the end user achieve more performance.
    I'm not an expert on what is going on with Mercedes ECU's right now but is MB trying to actively stop tuning? BMW is. The performance parts catalog is a joke and the motorsport parts void warranty and are only available through 4 dealers. The process is so convoluted and not user friendly third party tuning just makes more sense.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    I thought they even offered the 4.4L in the Euro GTS no?
    Yes, but the GTS does not apply to us here unfortunately.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    if it was created by a man, it can be hacked by a man.. not easy, but everyting can be cracked. now if it can be crackd w/o them knowing is a different story
    I would agree with you, but I can't. If vegas would take this bet I'd put my livlihood on the line asap.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not an expert on what is going on with Mercedes ECU's right now but is MB trying to actively stop tuning? BMW is. The performance parts catalog is a joke and the motorsport parts void warranty and are only available through 4 dealers. The process is so convoluted and not user friendly third party tuning just makes more sense.
    I had no idea it was that bad with the motorsports stuff...

    Yes, you could say that everyone is, by switching over think of how many hundreds of millions or billions of dollars will be saved (blown drivelines and accessories). There are so many reasons to do this and only one not to--the bad part is the one "not to" only involves 2-5% of vehicle owners.

    I'm not selling anything by saying this, it's obviously bad for my business as well, but I simply don't see any other possiblity.

  14. #39
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    i guess we will all be driving Ford then

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    Just stick with older cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, but the GTS does not apply to us here unfortunately.
    So you can't buy that motor from BMW in the U.S.? What about other countries not in Europe?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    I'm not selling anything by saying this, it's obviously bad for my business as well, but I simply don't see any other possiblity.
    So are you saying you won't be able to tune the newer cars?
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i guess we will all be driving Ford then
    Ford is switching too. The new PCM used in the 6.7L Scorpion is super encrypted. By 2013 they will be on board as well. '08+ Vipers are another good example. The technology exists to stop us now more than ever, and they also have more reason now than ever.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Just stick with older cars.
    This is absolutely correct and also the most plausible solution for gearheads.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    So you can't buy that motor from BMW in the U.S.? What about other countries not in Europe?
    No you can not. Any country that had the GTS available for purchase can purchase the parts if they need to be replaced but you can't just order up the motor.
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So are you saying you won't be able to tune the newer cars?
    I will find out for sure what processor the 5.5L TTs use in the next day or so, but by 2013-2014 it's game over.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No you can not. Any country that had the GTS available for purchase can purchase the parts if they need to be replaced but you can't just order up the motor.
    That sucks! AMG is doing almost the same thing with the SLS, in order to receive a SLS part or parts the dealer must first send the defective part or parts back to the motherland before they ship new parts to the dealer.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    That sucks! AMG is doing almost the same thing with the SLS, in order to receive a SLS part or parts the dealer must first send the defective part or parts back to the motherland before they ship new parts to the dealer.
    This is why Ford and Chevy are much cooler and may end up getting my business, especially if tuning is taken out of the equation for the Germans.
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  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is why Ford and Chevy are much cooler and may end up getting my business, especially if tuning is taken out of the equation for the Germans.
    Ford's really doing some great things now, and Chevy has always made their best attainable to the average joe props to them.

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    I think I will just stick with my gross polluter 25 year old BMW.

    And if I get another car its going to be a gross polluter 25 year old Porsche. These greenies can go shove their organic $#@! soapbox up their asses along with their priuses and other bull$#@! hybrids.

    Ever wonder why you can't finance an ML450 hybrid? Cuse the company that makes the battery for the car went out of business when the economy crashed, so god forbid a battery takes a $#@!, they can't replace it cuse it costs $20k. So they just lease them out. If it dies, they just get you a new one...and junk the old one. And what do you do with this now huge battery that's useless? Throw it out? Oh but the greenies don't see it that way.


    There are two kinds of people I can do with out. Liberals and greenies. And I'll add the ones that want to kill people for no reason other than to get 72 virgins.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I think I will just stick with my gross polluter 25 year old BMW.

    And if I get another car its going to be a gross polluter 25 year old Porsche. These greenies can go shove their organic $#@! soapbox up their asses along with their priuses and other bull$#@! hybrids.

    Ever wonder why you can't finance an ML450 hybrid? Cuse the company that makes the battery for the car went out of business when the economy crashed, so god forbid a battery takes a $#@!, they can't replace it cuse it costs $20k. So they just lease them out. If it dies, they just get you a new one...and junk the old one. And what do you do with this now huge battery that's useless? Throw it out? Oh but the greenies don't see it that way.
    +1

    Don't wory the electric cars will save us because 80% of our electricity doesn't come from burning fossil fuels or anything... Click here to enlarge


    The gearheads need to band together like the NRA, we have no real voice presently. Give credit to SEMA for being there but we need a group representing us that attacks the issues head on.

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