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    AMS Alpha 9 & Weistec M157 Turbo upgrade

    I'm surprised that none of you question or realized this, I immediately noticed it.Check out the larger turbos that are offered by both tuners for the M157:From AlphaClick here to enlarge From Weiste:Click here to enlargeMaybe I'm blind, but aren't those EXACTLY THE SAME?Click here to enlarge

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    They aren't the exact same. The housing is the same though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They aren't the exact same. The housing is the same though.
    I disagree. My understanding is that they are both twin Garret ball bearing turbos Gt22. Can you please show me how they are different with photos or data?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
    I disagree. My understanding is that they are both twin Garret ball bearing turbos Gt22. Can you please show me how they are different with photos or data?
    You're right that one of these is the GT22 per my information.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
    I disagree. My understanding is that they are both twin Garret ball bearing turbos Gt22. Can you please show me how they are different with photos or data?
    The GT22 is a journal bearing turbo. Nowhere in Weistec's post or website does it say they change the center section to ball bearing, in fact, they state the opposite:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weistec
    Tailored for use exclusively with the factory M157 Garrett gt22 frame makes this a 100% bolt-on installation.
    Whereas AMS states:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AMS
    Our turbo upgrade for your M157 powered Merc consists of a complete replacement Garrett ball bearing center cartridge opposed to a wheel swap upgrade where just a larger compressor wheel is installed on the OEM journal bearing turbo
    In fact, you can see where AMS cut and welded the turbine housing in the pictures above.

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    They look the same from the photos, but I would assume the tuning from each tuner to be diffrent

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    They look the same from the photos, but I would assume the tuning from each tuner to be diffrent
    They will of course look the same because they are using the same turbo housings which are OEM.

    Nobody is doing aftermarket turbo manifolds with completely aftermarket turbos... yet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They will of course look the same because they are using the same turbo housings which are OEM.

    Nobody is doing aftermarket turbo manifolds with completely aftermarket turbos... yet.
    If they are not the same. Then how are they diffrent ?, especially that they both come from Garret??

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    If they are not the same. Then how are they diffrent ?, especially that they both come from Garret??
    Garret has several different options. You can put various impellers in the housing.

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    Of course they look the same. They are taking the stock turbos. Getting rid of the journal bearing GT-22 CHRA's and modifying the housings to take a Dual BB Garrett GT30XX CHRA. They are both doing the same thing which is why they look the same. It is exactly what we are doing with the N55 turbos. The machining is quite a process which is why we are still not testing. I am going to jump into this world as soon as I source a set of cores or man up and buy a new set of turbos. The price point they are asking leaves a lot of room for competition.

    Edit: I forgot Weistec is leaving the GT22's for stock like line fitment and just going with bigger wheels. The AMS upgrade is a better upgrade. The BB CHRA's are tougher, will spool slightly better, and have better transient response.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Of course they look the same. They are taking the stock turbos. Getting rid of the journal bearing GT-22 CHRA's and modifying the housings to take a Dual BB Garrett GT30XX CHRA. They are both doing the same thing which is why they look the same. It is exactly what we are doing with the N55 turbos. The machining is quite a process which is why we are still not testing. I am going to jump into this world as soon as I source a set of cores or man up and buy a new set of turbos. The price point they are asking leaves a lot of room for competition.

    Edit: I forgot Weistec is leaving the GT22's for stock like line fitment and just going with bigger wheels. The AMS upgrade is a better upgrade. The BB CHRA's are tougher, will spool slightly better, and have better transient response.
    You are not going to make a lot of Mercedes friends Tony lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are not going to make a lot of Mercedes friends Tony lol.
    I am not taking sides, just stating facts. The BB CHRA's are superior but you do have to modify the lines, so its a give and take, and as far as jumping into the frey. Seriously those price points leave a LOT of room for competition. The hardware is the hardware, the tune will work with an upgrade of the same type from anywhere. We are on the cusp of becoming a Master Garrett Distributor as soon as we make our stage 3 turbo order. Then things get interesting.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I am not taking sides, just stating facts. The BB CHRA's are superior but you do have to modify the lines, so its a give and take, and as far as jumping into the frey. Seriously those price points leave a LOT of room for competition. The hardware is the hardware, the tune will work with an upgrade of the same type from anywhere. We are on the cusp of becoming a Master Garrett Distributor as soon as we make our stage 3 turbo order. Then things get interesting.
    Tony I do not deny your turbo expertise but a vendor on the BMW side jumping on the Mercedes side and essentially proclaiming one vendors products over another is not the best tact. In addition implying you will undercut pricing. We all welcome technical discussion but as a vendor you wouldn't like it yourself if it was reversed. Feel free to post details but let the users and customers conclude don't conclude for them when it's at the expense of a fellow sponsor please. Just a matter of decorum.

    Both companies have a great upgrade.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Tony I do not deny your turbo expertise but a vendor on the BMW side jumping on the Mercedes side and essentially proclaiming one vendors products over another is not the best tact. Additionally implying you will undercut pricing. We all welcome technical discussion but as a vendor you wouldn't like it yourself if it was reversed. Feel free to post details but let the users and customers conclude don't conclude for them when it's at the expense of a fellow sponsor please. Just a matter of decorum.

    Both companies have a great upgrade.

    I, for one, appreciate the honest and direct post.
    Thanks, Tony.

    Turbos are Turbos.
    Obviously $12k for a set of turbos is ridiculous.
    Competition is needed.

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    What part of stating facts don't you understand? The BB CHRA's are superior products. They last longer, they spool better, the have no thrust parts meaning nothing on that end to fail. If we made an upgrade and it was journal bearing and another company made one with a BB CHRA I would say the same thing, the BB CHRA is superior. Does it mean weistecs upgrade is not a good one? Of course not. But it's a lot cheaper and easier to produce, these are facts. And we are not a BMW vendor, we produce turbos for all kinds if vehicles and industries, we just happen to cater to the BMW crowd in these forums at the moment. The day I can't state a fact on the Internet for fear of offending someone is the day I never go on the Internet again. I appreciate you trying to keep people happy Joe, but something as simple as which CHRA is superior a journal bearing or a BB is pretty self explanatory. As far as undercutting pricing, I didn't say that in the least. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see at those price points there is room for competition on the MB side of things. Not sure what what your issue is here. If you don't want vendors from other parts of your sites posting on other sections, then why do all the forums feed together? I didn't post in either vendors threads, someone made a direct comparison and I commented with a technical fact about hardware. Period
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 07-07-2013 at 12:39 PM.

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    @VargasTurboTech , we appreciate your informative posts. So, do you believe that both turbos I posted from both AMS & Weistec are the same garret turbos with AMS being slightly better due to the BB CHRA?I guess this explains why they make much more whp than Weistec!
    Last edited by Fast Lane; 07-07-2013 at 12:19 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
    @VargasTurboTech , we appreciate your informative posts. So, do you believe that both turbos I posted from both AMS & Weistec are the same garret turbos with AMS being slightly better due to the BB CHRA?I guess this explains why they make much more whp than Weistec!
    I think this has been stated. The stock turbos are of course the same. The upgraded products are different. You can see if you look closely the weistecs retain the factory vband mouting for the CHRA as they upgraded the stock center section and the AMS has an adapter plate welded on to make use of the BB CHRA which comes assembled. The wheels are most likely not the same, I cant comment on that as I do not know which wheels either party is using. To be clear I was in no way bashing either product, pointing out from a purely technical standpoint, the internals of the BB CHRA are superior. But in another persons mind the OEM fitment of the weistec unit might make it superior. Either way they are both good choices.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    What part of stating facts don't you understand? The BB CHRA's are superior products. They last longer, they spool better, the have no thrust parts meaning nothing on that end to fail. If we made an upgrade and it was journal bearing and another company made one with a BB CHRA I would say the same thing, the BB CHRA is superior. Does it mean weistecs upgrade is not a good one? Of course not. But it's a lot cheaper and easier to produce, these are facts. And we are not a BMW vendor, we produce turbos for all kinds if vehicles and industries, we just happen to cater to the BMW crowd in these forums at the moment. The day I can't state a fact on the Internet for fear of offending someone is the day I never go on the Internet again. I appreciate you trying to keep people happy Joe, but something as simple as which CHRA is superior a journal bearing or a BB is pretty self explanatory. As far as undercutting pricing, I didn't say that in the least. Anyone with a pair of eyes can see at those price points there is room for competition on the MB side of things. Not sure what what your issue is here. If you don't want vendors from other parts of your sites posting on other sections, then why do all the forums feed together? I didn't post in either vendors threads, someone made a direct comparison and I commented with a technical fact about hardware. Period
    Tony like I said state the facts as much as you want your knowledge is appreciated just please don't step on toes in the process and respect fellow vendors that is all.

    I understand you produce more products than just for BMW's but your sponsorship status here is in BimmerBoost only for now if this was 'another site' all your posts would be deleted until you paid more. You know I don't work like that and have no desire to extort money as I try to keep everyone happy and appreciate vendors knowledge and contributions. Hope my position makes sense.

    There is room for competition everywhere and I think it will ultimately lead to the best products so good luck to all of you guys as it is a benefit to the consumer and enthusiast.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Tony like I said state the facts as much as you want your knowledge is appreciated just please don't step on toes in the process and respect fellow vendors that is all.

    I understand you produce more products than just for BMW's but your sponsorship status here is in BimmerBoost only for now if this was 'another site' all your posts would be deleted until you paid more. You know I don't work like that and have no desire to extort money as I try to keep everyone happy and appreciate vendors knowledge and contributions. Hope my position makes sense.

    There is room for competition everywhere and I think it will ultimately lead to the best products so good luck to all of you guys as it is a benefit to the consumer and enthusiast.
    Just my opinion....but I didn't feel like he was stepping on anyones toes whatsoever. In fact, I thought he was very nice about it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Just my opinion....but I didn't feel like he was stepping on anyones toes whatsoever. In fact, I thought he was very nice about it.
    Yes, these latest few posts were great I just want to make the position clear regarding vendor's interaction among each other and where it takes place. They are held to a higher and more professional standard.

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    I learned some useful info from this thread. Thanks everybody

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    Tony, thanks a lot for your professional input. As i understand Weistec turbos are about $3k. cheaper than those by AMS ($8.6k. vs $12k.) and now it is clear why, however what about Renntech turbos? The price is practically the same ($12k.) and they claim to use BB CHRA as well. So any professional thoughts of which is better? Thx. in advance.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    But it's a lot cheaper and easier to produce, these are facts.

    And we are not a BMW vendor, we produce turbos for all kinds if vehicles and industries, we just happen to cater to the BMW crowd in these forums at the moment.

    Anyone with a pair of eyes can see at those price points there is room for competition on the MB side of things.

    Hello Vargas. Thank you for your useful info that you posted. Although i need to comment on one thing. Perhaps you are not aware of this, I hope you are, but figuring out the tuning for the M157 and having a matched tune for the upgraded turbos is %75 of the cake. maybe its difrent in the BMW, I really dont know, but on an AMG, especially a complicated ECU like the M157, no matter what "superior" hardware you put into it, if you cant tune for it you will go no where brother.

    Part of the pricing for both AMS and Weistec upgraded turbos is due to the tuning. Its not easy, you need to know this!
    Weistec Supercharged SL63 AMG
    Click here to enlarge
    Fastest Overall Mercedes SL Class VBOX 60-130, 6.86-
    Dragtimes.com, FEB 16 2013







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    I think modified heads will give good power to this M157 engine

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