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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    The s65 engine is indeed shorter but it is wider and sits further forward in the engine compartment.
    Excuse me how does it sit further forward when the idea is compact bore spacing for less length? It HAS to sit further back.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Excuse me how does it sit further forward when the idea is compact bore spacing for less length? It HAS to sit further back.
    I should of rephrased. The rear of the s65 sits further forward then the n54. Therefore the trans on a m3 sits further forward then on a n54. That is why the m3 driveshaft is about two inches longer.

    If you were making the point of the engine weight distribution then yes the s65 has more of its weight further back in the vehicle but physically the engine sits 2 inches further forward.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    If you were making the point of the engine weight distribution then yes the s65 has more of its weight further back in the vehicle but physically the engine sits 2 inches further forward.
    The weight distribution of the M3 is better plus the engine sits further back I don't see how it is sitting ahead of an inline-6 when specifically it is designed to sit further back. It's also lighter than the I6 it replaced...

    Regardless, I'm not really sure why you continue the 335 versus M3 stuff in a for sale thread. The M3 is the superior car, the debate has been done to death, just let it be a for sale thread.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #54
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    I only continue the debate when people insist that inaccurate information is correct. I'll take a picture for you. Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I rode in this car, it was awesome!

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbocripple Click here to enlarge
    I rode in this car, it was awesome!
    Welcome.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  7. #57
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    I don't know why N54 owners keep trying to dream this car to being another M3. They are not, completely two different animals.

    As for the DCT 335is, yes its probably the closest thing from the 3 series to come near to an M3

    Why throw M3 parts on a 335is when after market parts exist that are better than the M3 stock parts ? The only thing I see getting from the M3 is the rear control arm bushings, and the front control arm and bushings. That's it.....

    Struts, Springs, Driveshafts, LSD can all be independently upgraded and still hold with pride your 335is rather than trying to have a knock off M3

    Leave your DCT N54 be a DCT N54.....there is not reason trying to prove a point to M3 owners.

    Time slips speak louder the words Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I don't know why N54 owners keep trying to dream this car to being another M3. They are not, completely two different animals.

    As for the DCT 335is, yes its probably the closest thing from the 3 series to come near to an M3

    Why throw M3 parts on a 335is when after market parts exist that are better than the M3 stock parts ? The only thing I see getting from the M3 is the rear control arm bushings, and the front control arm and bushings. That's it.....

    Struts, Springs, Driveshafts, LSD can all be independently upgraded and still hold with pride your 335is rather than trying to have a knock off M3

    Leave your DCT N54 be a DCT N54.....there is not reason trying to prove a point to M3 owners.

    Time slips speak louder the words Click here to enlarge
    There we go.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I don't know why N54 owners keep trying to dream this car to being another M3. They are not, completely two different animals.

    As for the DCT 335is, yes its probably the closest thing from the 3 series to come near to an M3

    Why throw M3 parts on a 335is when after market parts exist that are better than the M3 stock parts ? The only thing I see getting from the M3 is the rear control arm bushings, and the front control arm and bushings. That's it.....

    Struts, Springs, Driveshafts, LSD can all be independently upgraded and still hold with pride your 335is rather than trying to have a knock off M3

    Leave your DCT N54 be a DCT N54.....there is not reason trying to prove a point to M3 owners.

    Time slips speak louder the words Click here to enlarge

    Never had the intension of making a m3 clone, my car doesnt have an identity crisis. I just had the oppurtunity to upgrade every aspect of my suspension and brakes. Have a much more reliable driveline, and do somthing that nobody has ever done before. If you think the only things worth upgrading from an m3 are bushings then you really dont understand these cars as well as you think you do. The suspension geometry is much different, not only from the control arms, thrust rods, trailing arms, but from the knuckles themselfs. Even the wheel bearings are a much better design with less rolling resistance. The brakes, huge upgrade. I warped 3 sets of 335i front rotors doing 4th gear logs and stopping from 120ish mph. I felt like i couldnt stay in the brakes in fear of warping them again. This is no longer a problem.

    I honestly perfer upgrades that keeps oem feel and looks. When done cleanly and professionally they are some of the best mods you can do (in my opinion). This does so with a huge increase in performance and zero effect on driveablity and comfort.

  10. #60
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    Trust me there will be a full writeup when I'm "done"
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    Trust me there will be a full writeup when I'm "done"
    Congrats, but the m3 subframe swap has been done quite a few times now. I DIY'd it last year and I know of two other ones completed here in the UK alone. That's not counting the people in America who have already done it. Not trying to piss on your cornflakes or anything but be happy with your car and stop comparing it to something it is not (m3).
    Alpine White 2008 6MT 335i - Cobb AP - PTF Tuned - RB Turbos - AR DPs - VRSF 3.5" exhaust - Custom FMIC - 380mm BBK F&R - BMS DCI - M3 DCT LSD - Whiteline subframe bushes - M3 Sways and rear arms - M3 wishbones - ER CP - Spec Stage 3+ clutch and steel SMFW - AST 4100 Coilovers - UUC DSSR -UUC Black tranny mounts - TMS Alu diff bushes - Forge DVs - Aquamist HFS-4 meth - Alufelgen CS7s - BMWP V1 Steering Wheel

  12. #62
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    I've never seen it done with complete brakes and suspension, and most certainly not on a dct.

  13. #63
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    I have seen it done with susp and brakes in fact I've got AST M3 coilovers and an M3 BBK.

    DCT makes no difference, its just a different flange and driveshaft length.
    Alpine White 2008 6MT 335i - Cobb AP - PTF Tuned - RB Turbos - AR DPs - VRSF 3.5" exhaust - Custom FMIC - 380mm BBK F&R - BMS DCI - M3 DCT LSD - Whiteline subframe bushes - M3 Sways and rear arms - M3 wishbones - ER CP - Spec Stage 3+ clutch and steel SMFW - AST 4100 Coilovers - UUC DSSR -UUC Black tranny mounts - TMS Alu diff bushes - Forge DVs - Aquamist HFS-4 meth - Alufelgen CS7s - BMWP V1 Steering Wheel

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by idnan Click here to enlarge
    DCT makes no difference, its just a different flange and driveshaft length.
    More to it then that. Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    More to it then that. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge centre bearing?
    Alpine White 2008 6MT 335i - Cobb AP - PTF Tuned - RB Turbos - AR DPs - VRSF 3.5" exhaust - Custom FMIC - 380mm BBK F&R - BMS DCI - M3 DCT LSD - Whiteline subframe bushes - M3 Sways and rear arms - M3 wishbones - ER CP - Spec Stage 3+ clutch and steel SMFW - AST 4100 Coilovers - UUC DSSR -UUC Black tranny mounts - TMS Alu diff bushes - Forge DVs - Aquamist HFS-4 meth - Alufelgen CS7s - BMWP V1 Steering Wheel

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    I have to disagree with you on a few of your points.

    The chassis of an m3 has rigidity due to the strut bar and underbody bracing. These components are BOLT ON the body of the car is the same. If you ever worked on one of these cars you would know that.

    The driveshaft of the m3 is required not because its a performance upgrade. It is larger and heavier. The reason it is required is because the m3 diff is bolted to the driveshaft differently then a 335. If you are going to use a m3 diff, you are required to use a m3 driveshaft and m3 axles. Again, if you ever even looked at the underside of both vehicles, you would know this, but obviously you haven't.

    The s65 engine is indeed shorter but it is wider and sits further forward in the engine compartment. That is why with the m3 driveshaft needs to be shortened to perform this swap.

    The dct is the SAME, only difference is programming.

    I did swap the rear subframe, and all components in the rear of the vehicle. Not sure how you are even making this argument. I completely agree with you that the aluminum control arms and more rigid subframe and mounts are a huge benefit. Thats why I used them Click here to enlarge

    The m3 rack does have a closer ratio for lock to lock, but since my swap I have found that the m3 steering is the way it is due to geometry of the front knuckle. The mounting point of the tie rod to the knuckle is moved further forward creating a more direct feel and less steering effort. It is a great upgrade and does feel very direct and precise.

    All bmws being currently produced have a flat panel underbody, but since its pretty clear you have never been under or worked on bmws you would have no idea.

    Next time you come up with stuff off the top of your head at least try and make sure its accurate.
    It sounds like you are doing the same thing though. He was 100% right - just because you have seen things/been under/worked on BMWs, doesn't make you any more or less knowledgeable than someone else you don't know.

    He is right in saying you would literally need to replace 85% of the car's parts to obtain the same rigidity as the M3. Although the parts you are replacing will make a huge difference - it will not ever handle/brake/etc. as good as an M3. There is a reason these parts were made/engineered separately for a different purpose.

    Nearly the entire body-shell is different between the standard 3 series, and an M3. The material in most cases is stronger, and in others also lighter. The thrust panel is reinforced/stronger and an entirely different P/N between both models; this increases rigidity and torsional strength - which helps steering feel/handling/etc. The ONLY parts on the exterior/shell of the car that are the same are the hood, and the doors - that's it. All other external parts are completely different and engineered specifically for the M3. The underbody of the M3 IS NOT the same as the 3 series as you allude. These are also specifically made/engineered/optimized for the M3 for aero/cooling. The entire rear seat frame is different - stronger and lighter (like on the CSL vs the old M3) - also adding rigidity to help handling/remove slop. The entire powertrain is different, as we know - and although you can increase the torque/power easily of the 335i, you do not have a system that is engineered specifically for a race purpose. This includes oiling capacity/scavenging/etc. - in other words, one car is purposely built to hard brake/corner continuously under load, the other is not. One can/will starve, the other will be less likely to. The M3's engine cooling is made specifically for the purpose of the M3. The driveshaft is indeed a performance upgrade - it was again specifically built for the M3 to have increased strength.

    So to sum up, you would need to replace the front axle carrier, the thrust panel, the driveshafts, the brakes, rear seat frame, the ... list goes on and on and on. Do you see the point? It would make no sense after all is said and done. IDK - I just thought you were trolling with the 80k stuff, I mean - again, to make them exactly the same (meaning, handling/rigidity/everything) would make no sense... Why do you think they make an M series?

    It's tiresome at best to keep up the bantering - but when you tell someone "next time you come up with stuff off the top of your head, make sure it's accurate" - but the person was mostly accurate, it's then bit much when you yourself correct him incorrectly.

    If you would like, I can send references for each one of the above mentioned parts/points from BMW M GmbH.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    If you would like, I can send references for each one of the above mentioned parts/points from BMW M GmbH.

    Sounds like a good read, send it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like a good read, send it.
    Sure thing --> 6 meg PDF_BMW_m3_tech_info

  19. #69
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    I've read that before, actually have it in hard copy. I dont see any info about the body construction being any different other then different part number rear quarters for the wider rear fenders. The chassis stiffening parts I have installed.

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    The hood is actually different (aluminum) and I believe Sticky meant the boot lid and the doors which are the ONLY two exterior body parts that are the same.

    I actually have been pretty darn familiar with my car. Have installed 2 xpipes, a rear section all in my garage so got pretty familiar with the underside of the car. I change my engine, sparks etc. Yes basic but enought o know the spaces and some of the more subtle diffference.

    THe DCT is not programmed the same-I am sorry. If you have ever driven the M3 you would know that.

    A huge HUGE benefit is the oil pump system in the m3. It has the benefits of the dry sump system essentially in terms of having ability to keep things lubricated at 1.3-1.4 Gs where the N54 is constantly oil starved. How many threads hav eyou read on the N54 cars being starved for oil during the one long sweeper at Laguna.

    Go on realoem.com and take a look at all of the parts that provide more rigidity for the m3. Its not just the strut bars and the underbody braces and beefier supports. You would be surprised how much extra beefy support the m3 has for rigidity. Why do you think it weighs 75-100 pounds more than a 335 despite using lighter parts in almost every component? Yes the engine is 30 pounds heavier but it simply has much more structural componentry to beef it up.

    And P.S the reason you were the first and probably last person to want to do this exact swap is because any normal person would realize it is ridiculous. Clearly you probably don't realize this as you think you can "let it go" for 80k. Needed a good laugh at the end of the day!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMWJunkie Click here to enlarge
    I've read that before, actually have it in hard copy. I dont see any info about the body construction being any different other then different part number rear quarters for the wider rear fenders. The chassis stiffening parts I have installed.
    Every single thing I wrote in that post was taken straight from that PDF... You didn't read it.

    "The doors and the tailgate are taken from the series-model E92. All other external body components are new." Page 30

    Page 25 references the shell being completely different other than doors/trunk. Page 27 lists all the rear reinforcements, 28 the front (more important than rear btw), underbody components are on page 38, interior rear seat bench/frame on page 40, etc, etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
    The hood is actually different (aluminum) and I believe Sticky meant the boot lid and the doors which are the ONLY two exterior body parts that are the same.

    Go on realoem.com and take a look at all of the parts that provide more rigidity for the m3. Its not just the strut bars and the underbody braces and beefier supports. You would be surprised how much extra beefy support the m3 has for rigidity. Why do you think it weighs 75-100 pounds more than a 335 despite using lighter parts in almost every component? Yes the engine is 30 pounds heavier but it simply has much more structural componentry to beef it up.
    ^this.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
    The hood is actually different (aluminum) and I believe Sticky meant the boot lid and the doors which are the ONLY two exterior body parts that are the same.

    I actually have been pretty darn familiar with my car. Have installed 2 xpipes, a rear section all in my garage so got pretty familiar with the underside of the car. I change my engine, sparks etc. Yes basic but enought o know the spaces and some of the more subtle diffference.

    THe DCT is not programmed the same-I am sorry. If you have ever driven the M3 you would know that.

    A huge HUGE benefit is the oil pump system in the m3. It has the benefits of the dry sump system essentially in terms of having ability to keep things lubricated at 1.3-1.4 Gs where the N54 is constantly oil starved. How many threads hav eyou read on the N54 cars being starved for oil during the one long sweeper at Laguna.

    Go on realoem.com and take a look at all of the parts that provide more rigidity for the m3. Its not just the strut bars and the underbody braces and beefier supports. You would be surprised how much extra beefy support the m3 has for rigidity. Why do you think it weighs 75-100 pounds more than a 335 despite using lighter parts in almost every component? Yes the engine is 30 pounds heavier but it simply has much more structural componentry to beef it up.

    And P.S the reason you were the first and probably last person to want to do this exact swap is because any normal person would realize it is ridiculous. Clearly you probably don't realize this as you think you can "let it go" for 80k. Needed a good laugh at the end of the day!
    I thought it was pretty obvious that the exterior parts on the car are completely different. I dont deny that. I'm saying that the FRAME of the e92 m3 and the FRAME of the e92 are not any more ridgid than each other.

    If you actually read what I wrote about the dct, I stated that the programming IS different. Its the same gearing, same mechatronics unit, and same clutches. PROGRAMMING IS DIFFERENT.

    Laugh all you want at the 80k. If you built your dream car, and couldnt get another one even if you tried, how much would you "let it go" for. Its the last month production, of the last 2dr 3series with a n54 in it ever. I couldnt order another one today if I wanted to.

    So yeah, for somthing thats not replaceable and is exactly what I want. I'd let it go for 80k.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Every single thing I wrote in that post was taken straight from that PDF... You didn't read it.

    "The doors and the tailgate are taken from the series-model E92. All other external body components are new." Page 30

    Page 25 references the shell being completely different other than doors/trunk. Page 27 lists all the rear reinforcements, 28 the front (more important than rear btw), underbody components are on page 38, interior rear seat bench/frame on page 40, etc, etc.

    All external parts are different, but have nothing to do with how well the car handles unless you wanna get all techinical with me again on downforce or somthing else that I really dont care about.

    The rear seat, sure its different. Why? They made it lighter, nothing is said about it being any more structually sound.

    Underpanals are different, due to different components being installed on that car, I see no performance advantage other then cooling ducts for the dct trans. If you look at both cars side by side the 335is actually has a smoother underbody, more components are covered.

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    Click here to enlarge this thread.....

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