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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    I think if your friend is truly unfit to own a weapon, you should do more than just post about it on the Internet.


    Why would I jump through any hoops or perform tricks to exercise a natural right that is protected by our Constitution? The odds of being shot and killed by a mentally disturbed person are significantly lower than the probability of being killed in a car accident. And yet the standards you outlined for gun ownership are far, far more stringent than what is expected of anyone who wants to drive a car.

    We can very easily enforce speed limits electronically. Eliminate drunk driving with breathalyzer interlocks on all cars. We can track the whereabouts of anyone in the country with a cell phone, or by using a national ID card with an RFID chip. Read everybody's mail and snoop on their phone calls. Take everyone's DNA at birth and catalog it in case someone does something in the future.

    All of those things are possible, but most people resist them because of privacy concerns. But for me to have a gun to exercise my natural right to self defense, I have to suffer invasions of privacy that nobody else is willing to do to save far, far more lives. The double-standard is incredible.
    Very much agreed.

    I really don't think those for the expansion of gun laws understand the MAJORITY of gun violence comes from those that can give 2 squats about a gun law. How will more laws stop the people that already don't obey the existing ones ? Last time I checked, murder was pretty illegal in the U.S.. If the threat of 25-life isn't stopping people, I don't see how a few years in jail ( or months in some places ) for violating the gun laws will make them change their mind.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    sorry, i had gotten called to go in early before i could finish my argument.

    so, to recap,
    1 chicago, the safest city in the US thanks to strict gun control
    2. you can legally buy a shotgun in LI NY with no background check- this must be stopped because background checks prevent gun crime

    now, i cant even accuratley complete my statement here, because the stats are so low.. but, safe city, Chicago, had 500+ gun murders in 2012- strcit, VERY STRICT gun control

    Long Island- I cant even find gun murder stats for LI because its so low, and we are waiting for 2012 FBI results.. so I have to go by 2011.

    in 2011, NY STATE had 44x firearms murders

    let that sink in again.. an ENTIRE STATE, that has no background checks, had less firearms murder than 1 city that doesnt allow anyone than law enforcement and criminals carry a weapon..

    re-read that one more time:
    an ENTIRE STATE, that has no background checks, had less firearms murder than 1 city that doesnt allow anyone than law enforcement and criminals carry a weapon..\

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...ables/table-20

    The numbers + sensible logic that forced Piers Morgan to always changed the subject when introduced.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sr20seb Click here to enlarge
    I no longer care to discuss this any further. I've said what I wanted to and I'm perfectly ok living the rest of my life knowing that there are people who disagree with me.
    I wonder if what LostMarine posted had anything to do with the withdrawal. You seemed to be pretty strong in your argument in the beginning. I understand everyone has a right to their own ideas but, when the statistical facts point out the clear conclusion that idea doesn't work, why hold on to it ? As someone said earlier, it's pretty much like still rooting for the war on drugs. 40+ years later: 1+ trillion dollars spent, millions of people jailed for simple possession and you can still get illegal drugs without much problem. And yet, we still continue it.

    The pro-gun people i've talked with all understand that having a gun doesn't automatically guarantee you safety. Nor does it completely eradicate gun violence. However, they know if the other person has one ( by the other person, i'm talking about the criminal who can care less about tighter gun laws ) and you don't, well your chances of survival just dropped dramatically. What they advocate is at least the CHANCE of saving their own life or someone else's. Surely that's not insensible is it ?

  2. #52
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    +rep ^^
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  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    40+ years later: 1+ trillion dollars spent, millions of people jailed for simple possession and you can still get illegal drugs without much problem. And yet, we still continue it.
    Pharmaceutical companies don't want competition hence they keep this going.

    Imagine if you could just buy certain drugs legally. Doctors wouldn't get their cut, the pharmacy wouldn't get its cut, and the drug companies wouldn't get the same cut.

    It's all about what makes the most money for the right people and not what is right for people.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    +rep ^^
    Thx !


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Pharmaceutical companies don't want competition hence they keep this going.

    Imagine if you could just buy certain drugs legally. Doctors wouldn't get their cut, the pharmacy wouldn't get its cut, and the drug companies wouldn't get the same cut.

    It's all about what makes the most money for the right people and not what is right for people.
    Oh i'm fully aware and agree. It's a practice that's understandable from a biz capitalist view but, disgusting from even the most basic humanistic view. What's even more disgusting is even when you play their stupid little game and go the proper route, you get a scenario like Dr. Bruzynski. To say our medical system sucks would be an understatement.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    Oh i'm fully aware and agree. It's a practice that's understandable from a biz capitalist view but, disgusting from even the most basic humanistic view. What's even more disgusting is even when you play their stupid little game and go the proper route, you get a scenario like Dr. Bruzynski. To say our medical system sucks would be an understatement.
    I just don't get why the people don't have control of the system. The older I get the more ridiculous this all seems.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Pharmaceutical companies don't want competition hence they keep this going.

    Imagine if you could just buy certain drugs legally. Doctors wouldn't get their cut, the pharmacy wouldn't get its cut, and the drug companies wouldn't get the same cut.

    It's all about what makes the most money for the right people and not what is right for people.
    Big pharma is only half of the War on Drugs. When the debate about legalizing pot was going on here in Colorado, the police were all up in arms about losing funding. Cops don't get their shiny new toys when budgets get slashed if dope becomes legal. And you can bet that attitude extends all the way up the chain from local PD up to DEA, Border Patrol, etc.

    When you think about it, the drug companies have a huge amount of blame for all of the recent mass shootings. The psychos that at one time were actually treated for their mental issues are now just given a bunch of meds and told to check back in next month. Easier to make a bunch of zombies on a chemical cocktail than take the time to fix people. And when the cocktail gets out of whack and you get the killings like we have seen... time to blame the guns rather than the society that allowed the monsters to go past the brink.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    ok, new topic
    what do you think about this:




    @LZH
    All I can say is that the FBI must be hiring those laid off from the DMV. How the FBI, CIA, DHS and JTT can miss something like this is just absurd. Only a matter of time until a well organized group kills tens of thousands of people....And when that happens I'm moving to Switzerland.

  8. #58
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    I'll tell you guys what it's like in a country where you don't have the right to bear arms (South Korea). You fist fight with police officers (they can shoot three bullets in their whole career), use florescent bulbs to hit people in the face, use hammers to attack people and prick people with needles and boxcutters dipped in poison.

    I don't own a gun, but people can do some serious damage without them.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    I'll tell you guys what it's like in a country where you don't have the right to bear arms (South Korea). You fist fight with police officers (they can shoot three bullets in their whole career), use florescent bulbs to hit people in the face, use hammers to attack people and prick people with needles and boxcutters dipped in poison.

    I don't own a gun, but people can do some serious damage without them.
    Sounds like how I grew up.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    I'll tell you guys what it's like in a country where you don't have the right to bear arms (South Korea). You fist fight with police officers (they can shoot three bullets in their whole career), use florescent bulbs to hit people in the face, use hammers to attack people and prick people with needles and boxcutters dipped in poison.

    I don't own a gun, but people can do some serious damage without them.
    pretty sure you left out machete's.. granted not as prevelent as south america's usage, but im sure still used

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    pretty sure you left out machete's.. granted not as prevelent as south america's usage, but im sure still used

    this country also doesn't have labor laws, sick leave, medicaid, bankruptcy, or federal assistance. all us American bellyachers need to know how good we have it compared to others. first world problems indeed.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    Big pharma is only half of the War on Drugs. When the debate about legalizing pot was going on here in Colorado, the police were all up in arms about losing funding. Cops don't get their shiny new toys when budgets get slashed if dope becomes legal. And you can bet that attitude extends all the way up the chain from local PD up to DEA, Border Patrol, etc.

    When you think about it, the drug companies have a huge amount of blame for all of the recent mass shootings. The psychos that at one time were actually treated for their mental issues are now just given a bunch of meds and told to check back in next month. Easier to make a bunch of zombies on a chemical cocktail than take the time to fix people. And when the cocktail gets out of whack and you get the killings like we have seen... time to blame the guns rather than the society that allowed the monsters to go past the brink.
    I can't disagree with anything here.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    this country also doesn't have labor laws, sick leave, medicaid, bankruptcy, or federal assistance. all us American bellyachers need to know how good we have it compared to others. first world problems indeed.
    Just because other places are even $#@!tier doesn't mean we don't have problems and that our problems aren't necessarily bigger due to their sophistication. We may have clean drinking water (even this is debatable) but there's a whole lot of other issues on a whole different level.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I just don't get why the people don't have control of the system. The older I get the more ridiculous this all seems.
    I can only chalk it up to there being more brain dead citizens than aware, conscious folk. The system does a great job at distracting the feeble minded with nonsense. Your second statement is my sentiment exactly.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    this country also doesn't have labor laws, sick leave, medicaid, bankruptcy, or federal assistance. all us American bellyachers need to know how good we have it compared to others. first world problems indeed.
    Sure, there are some who take the blessings of this country for granted. That doesn't mean there isn't a copious amount who are aware and exceedingly grateful. There is a level of give and take with what you feel you can/want to deal with BUT, that doesn't mean we HAVE to submit to the negatives about our reality if we have the ability to change it.

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    Governments don't provide the utopian living 320 million people seek?

    Imagine that!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
    Very much agreed.

    I really don't think those for the expansion of gun laws understand the MAJORITY of gun violence comes from those that can give 2 squats about a gun law. How will more laws stop the people that already don't obey the existing ones ? Last time I checked, murder was pretty illegal in the U.S.. If the threat of 25-life isn't stopping people, I don't see how a few years in jail ( or months in some places ) for violating the gun laws will make them change their mind.





    The numbers + sensible logic that forced Piers Morgan to always changed the subject when introduced.




    I wonder if what LostMarine posted had anything to do with the withdrawal. You seemed to be pretty strong in your argument in the beginning. I understand everyone has a right to their own ideas but, when the statistical facts point out the clear conclusion that idea doesn't work, why hold on to it ? As someone said earlier, it's pretty much like still rooting for the war on drugs. 40+ years later: 1+ trillion dollars spent, millions of people jailed for simple possession and you can still get illegal drugs without much problem. And yet, we still continue it.

    The pro-gun people i've talked with all understand that having a gun doesn't automatically guarantee you safety. Nor does it completely eradicate gun violence. However, they know if the other person has one ( by the other person, i'm talking about the criminal who can care less about tighter gun laws ) and you don't, well your chances of survival just dropped dramatically. What they advocate is at least the CHANCE of saving their own life or someone else's. Surely that's not insensible is it ?
    +1000 well said man !!!

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