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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Sorry sir, but there is not a single piece of evidence to back this story up. Sticky certainly did a mistake by creating this thread and claiming things that can't be supported other than thin air but that's almost-understandable as Weistec is a vendor and Sticky is the admin. But overall accusing people of stealing is really big, and we can't do that based on what he said/what she said. Solid evidence is needed.

    BTW, not all of the threads about SC'd M156's should be turned into a Weistec praising thread. Don't you guys think so? Every time someone discuss something, people will chime in telling how great Weistec products are and how not-complete/weak/late-to-the-party/crap other possible options can be and try to talk down on them by any means possible. What's up with that? I think some of you guys have been on M3post, and you can tell how massively annoying that place is. Why? Because of the ESS favorism and as the result ESS' image among the enthusiasts is not good even though ESS stuff are decent. There are tons of other examples around, you know better than me. The same is happening in here. We know the facts about Weistec and their products, any not-needed biased/fanboy-ish comments or favor-ism is just gonna hurt the image of Weistec.

    What bothers me is that from the day 1, competition has always brought good things for consumers. Members should be happy for more options, and welcome then, not bash them. Just my two cents.

    P.S. Flame suit on. Click here to enlarge
    You have no idea what you're talking about, at all, period.

    You think I made the thread out of thin-air? What mistake did I make exactly? I think everyone who actually has knowledge, not you, was very aware. You aren't capable of coming to your own conclusions?

    Of course solid evidence is needed to prove it. It's almost impossible to prove in this industry which is why it happens all the time unless you are so naive as to think code is not stolen. The fact of the matter is Kleemann had Weistec software for the M156 supercharger. They then came out with their own SC on the stock DME when people in Europe were using piggybacks, not the stock DME like Weistec. You are telling me during development (which took Weistec years) everything just went smoothly and they didn't look at the software that was already working to point them in the right direction where nobody around them was at?

    No, I think Weistec should be praised because they are the ones who actually got this working. They should be praised for honoring their agreement. It was their hard work that made this all happen. Now others are stealing that work. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get CARB certified let alone even supercharge an M156? They have the fastest Benz, they deserve all the credit and then some.

    Competition? Yes, competition is great. How about I compete with Microsoft by stealing Windows code and just re-labeling it? By your logic, that's "competition" and good for everyone.

    You seriously HAVE NO CLUE what you are talking about. Period.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    I find it hard to believe that a Google search from a Danish IP is going to return this site based in the US as a result; but when I run the identical search from a US IP I get nothing.


    Click here to enlarge

  3. #53
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    My Google placement keeps getting better, nice.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    My Google placement keeps getting better, nice.

    Have you read my ¤46

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    Have you read my ¤46
    Honestly, it's somewhat difficult to understand what you are trying to say.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, it's somewhat difficult to understand what you are trying to say.
    You are saing if i understand it right, that Kleeman have taken the codes from Weistac.

    My car and a SLS have been on a trip of 800 miles and back on a truck (transporter( to get the ECU programmed by a german company that have the hardware to program at all parameters in the is it Bosch 9,7.

    So i dont thing that it is stolen, but i dont know.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    You are saing if i understand it right, that Kleeman have taken the codes from Weistac.
    I'm emphatically implying it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    My car and a SLS have been on a trip of 800 miles and back on a truck (transporter( to get the ECU programmed by a german company that have the hardware to program at all parameters in the is it Bosch 9,7.
    And?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    So i dont thing that it is stolen, but i dont know.
    I know what I know. We're going to see more people enter this market because software has spread out. Whether you want to believe Kleemann came up with it on their own or took the shortcut they had sitting in front them, more people are now entering this market.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm emphatically implying it.



    And?



    I know what I know. We're going to see more people enter this market because software has spread out. Whether you want to believe Kleemann came up with it on their own or took the shortcut they had sitting in front them, more people are now entering this market.
    Why use all the money in prgramming if they allready got it ?

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    Why use all the money in prgramming if they allready got it ?
    What money in programming? You mean adjusting the software for a different blower, fuel, timing, etc.? That isn't the hard part. The hard part is what they "apparently" needed from the people who already did it.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What money in programming? You mean adjusting the software for a different blower, fuel, timing, etc.? That isn't the hard part. The hard part is what they "apparently" needed from the people who already did it.
    Apparently by shipping a car 1600 miles round trip you all of a sudden have mastered M156 tuning.
    Or, whomever is doing the tuning would rather not ask the customer to send his transmission along with the ECU for calibration. Just more smoke and mirrors in the aftermarket tuning scene.

    Has everyone forgot how a few years ago everyone said the torque limitations in the 722.9 were the only thing limiting the extra power the M156 was capable of ? I remember when Jim's black series was the first with long tubes and a tune and powerchip/Evosport was having issues with the additional 100 or so whp LOL.
    Last edited by LZH; 01-04-2013 at 04:23 AM.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Apparently by shipping a car 1600 miles round trip you all of a sudden have mastered M156 tuning.
    Or, whomever is doing the tuning would rather not ask the customer to send his transmission along with the ECU for calibration. Just more smoke and mirrors in the aftermarket tuning scene.

    Has everyone forgot how a few years ago everyone said the torque limitations in the 722.9 were the only thing limiting the extra power the M156 was capable of ? I remember when Jim's black series was the first with long tubes and a tune and powerchip/Evosport was having issues with the additional 100 or so whp LOL.
    I remember when upgrading the transmission was said to be impossible...

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What money in programming? You mean adjusting the software for a different blower, fuel, timing, etc.? That isn't the hard part. The hard part is what they "apparently" needed from the people who already did it.
    That they have could done i Denmark.
    Its all the things you only can do with a factory ECU tools, ore what you call it.

    The supercharger was installed in Denmark and testet for 3 weeks, then it wass shipped to Germany to a special company to do all the things you normaly dont can. Also the gearbox software etc.

    Another thing, how can they steal a thing that is allready stolen, if thats the case.
    maybe the last line shoot be written in another way.
    I dont think that Mercedes ore bosch like that the codes are broken in the first place.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    Another thing, how can they steal a thing that is allready stolen, if thats the case.
    maybe the last line shoot be written in another way.
    Ya maybe it should be.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    I dont think that Mercedes ore bosch like that the codes are broken in the first place.
    Without someone working close with Mercedes or Bosch nothing would happen in the first place. I'm sure they don't like their encryption circumvented but let's all be happy it is.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ya maybe it should be.



    Without someone working close with Mercedes or Bosch nothing would happen in the first place. I'm sure they don't like their encryption circumvented but let's all be happy it is.
    Do tou know that Weistec has changes the design of the supercharger, because some chargers has blown up at the german autobahn. long time running more than 200 km/h.

  15. #65
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    The new design of the supercharger from Weistec is made so the original engine cover on the M156 cant get space.

    I dont know if this is the right picture, but the axsel or what you call it, is to big/long.

    Click here to enlarge

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    Do tou know that Weistec has changes the design of the supercharger, because some chargers has blown up at the german autobahn. long time running more than 200 km/h.
    Ok now you're reaching man. Kleemann really should send someone else to post for them.

    I know that Wesitec with their "design of the supecharger" has the fastest Mercedes in the world. I wish you luck.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    The new design of the supercharger from Weistec is made so the original engine cover on the M156 cant get space.

    I dont know if this is the right picture, but the axsel or what you call it, is to big/long.

    Click here to enlarge
    I have no idea what you're trying to say.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH
    You're right, there is no evidence but if you look at the chain of events the writing on the wall is pretty clear and you can draw your own conclusions.
    I understand that this is a Benz forum, but let me tell you something about two M3 SC kits. There is a company called Evolve which has sold G-Power SC kits since 2-3 years ago. Recently, they came up with their own SC kit. Suspicious, no? And what makes its more interesting is that G-Power's kit and Evolve's kit have a lot of similarities. Someone who may doesn't know Evolve and the story behind the kit might say that Evolve copied G-Power's product but the fact is that someone is wrong as the kit simply was developed by Evolve, period.

    Now we are in the same situations, though this time instead of G-Power and Evolve, Weistec and Kleemann are involved. Am i missing something here? Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH
    What's up with that is the fact that Weistec pretty much came out of no where and buried the competition and have been able to do what many said couldn't be done. Not to mention offering the best performance mods for the M156 platform.
    Correct. But let the product, reputations and the records speak. That's the best way to promote. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    You have no idea what you're talking about, at all, period.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    You seriously HAVE NO CLUE what you are talking about. Period.
    Here we go again. The "you don't know, i know" game. OK, you have the gift to know what's wrong and what's right. That's cool.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    You think I made the thread out of thin-air?
    Don't you think so? Check post #8:
    Who is saying they[Weistec] didn't? Everyone has to have some kind of help from Europe from someone who has a close relationship to the factory or else nothing would happen for anyone.
    And now Weistec's response in post #10
    I'm not sure where any of you get this information. It is honestly insulting to read this. We never had help from anyone when calibrating the ECU to work with our supercharger.
    You didn't even know Weistec's story, the company that is a vendor here and you went out checking their facility, now you want us to believe that YOU KNOW what was/is going on in Kleemann, a company based in Denmark? Please.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I understand that this is a Benz forum, but let me tell you something about two M3 SC kits. There is a company called Evolve which has sold G-Power SC kits since 2-3 years ago. Recently, they came up with their own SC kit. Suspicious, no? And what makes its more interesting is that G-Power's kit and Evolve's kit have a lot of similarities. Someone who may doesn't know Evolve and the story behind the kit might say that Evolve copied G-Power's product but the fact is that someone is wrong as the kit simply was developed by Evolve, period.
    The hardware between Evolve and G-Power is different. Secondly, M3 kits have been on market for a very long time now comparatively with how many different people selling the software/hardware? Gintani, Evolve, Active, VF, ESS, and G-Power.

    I can tell you this much though, G-Power was one of the first and software did spread out.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Here we go again. The "you don't know, i know" game. OK, you have the gift to know what's wrong and what's right. That's cool.
    You don't. You haven't spoken to anyone involved in this. What do you know?

    You think I would just put something up basically accusing someone of IP theft without having anything to go on? I have nothing to fear from Kleemann for a reason.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    You didn't even know Weistec's story, the company that is a vendor here and you went out checking their facility, now you want us to believe that YOU KNOW what was/is going on in Kleemann, a company based in Denmark? Please.
    No, you're having trouble understanding two different things. The Bosh ECU's that keep being brought up require someone at the factory to help with decrpytion. To even get access to the ECU, understand? What Weistec did with their software to make the supercharger work is something separate entirely that required their own programming/testing.

    I find it funny that you so blindly believe Kleemann did nothing wrong when you don't have access to any of the parties involved. Oh ya, no possible way software in the supercharger market could get ripped off right? It happened in the BMW market all the time though.

    If anything, you should be doing a lot more reading rather than typing because you have no clue, no info, and nothing of substance. Yet what I posted sure seems a lot more realistic than your... well, blind guessing.

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok now you're reaching man. Kleemann really should send someone else to post for them.

    I know that Wesitec with their "design of the supecharger" has the fastest Mercedes in the world. I wish you luck.
    I have nothing to do with Kleemann. Else that they have tunet my car.
    Is it wrong that Weistec have changes thier Supercharger because of problems ?

    And yes, Weistec have the fastest Mercedes in the world. That is not why i got my tune.
    I just want a little more of power and tourge, but with the same "confort" in the driveline.

    Is it also wrong that the new designed supercharger cant go with the original engine cover ?

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    I have nothing to do with Kleemann. Else that they have tunet my car.
    Yet you're an expert on software tuning, cost, and what Weistec superchargers supposedly do on the Autobahn as well as criticizing their supercharger design for some reason?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    Is it wrong that Weistec have changes thier Supercharger because of problems ?
    Yes, it's very wrong to say that because I think I'm closer to Weistec and their customers, both literally and figuratively, than just about anyone and the only changes I have seen is them going to a bigger blower for more power. We also have several of their customers here who have posted and shown no issues just great results and support.

    So, you are bringing up supposed "problems" out of nowhere with no supporting documentation when all supporting documentation points to the opposite while at the same time being a Kleemann customer who allowed his car to be used for development likely for a discount.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    And yes, Weistec have the fastest Mercedes in the world. That is not why i got my tune.
    I just want a little more of power and tourge, but with the same "confort" in the driveline.
    And that's all Kleemann will be able to give you, they can't compete on the big boy end with Weistec or others for that matter. They just are getting a supercharger out while Weistec has done what, basically every major breakthrough on the M156? Kleemann is a name, an outdated name who apparently is resorting to desperation tactics now, nothing more.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    Is it also wrong that the new designed supercharger cant go with the original engine cover ?
    I don't know what you are referring to but you may be confusing what you call a new design with an optional 3.0 liter upgrade. As far as fitment with a hood, I personally haven't witnessed clearance issues but a larger supercharger certainly will take up more space.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And that's all Kleemann will be able to give you, they can't compete on the big boy end with Weistec or others for that matter. They just are getting a supercharger out while Weistec has done what, basically every major breakthrough on the M156? Kleemann is a name, an outdated name who apparently is resorting to desperation tactics now, nothing more.

    I think that 685 hp and 850 nm is fine.
    The simulair stage 1 at Weistec gives less.
    I also have to get my car approved at the danish inspection, and that cant be done with out a TÜV. That mens no headers ore anything other changes at the engine.
    Last edited by SVP03; 01-04-2013 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Wrong spelling

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    I think that 685 hp and 850 nm is fine.
    On paper that sounds nice, it isn't proven.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    The simulair stage 1 at Weistec gives less.
    Get out to a drag strip or a dyno and prove it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVP03 Click here to enlarge
    I also have to get my car approved at the danish inspection, and that cant be done with out a TÜV. That mens no headers ore anything other changes at the engine.
    That's nice.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Also to add to that, the VF S65 kit is extremely similar in layout to the ESS.

    Same blower, same location, pre rad, charge cooled but with differences.

    On first inspection people could say it's the same but look closer and you see that many of the parts would have required a completely ground up development process.

    Basically there is only so many ways you can do something especially given the space constraints.

    What about also the S54 SC kits? AA made the first ones with intercoolers and then everyone else made the same thing in almost the same layout. No one said anything back then.










    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I understand that this is a Benz forum, but let me tell you something about two M3 SC kits. There is a company called Evolve which has sold G-Power SC kits since 2-3 years ago. Recently, they came up with their own SC kit. Suspicious, no? And what makes its more interesting is that G-Power's kit and Evolve's kit have a lot of similarities. Someone who may doesn't know Evolve and the story behind the kit might say that Evolve copied G-Power's product but the fact is that someone is wrong as the kit simply was developed by Evolve, period.

    Now we are in the same situations, though this time instead of G-Power and Evolve, Weistec and Kleemann are involved. Am i missing something here? Click here to enlarge



    Correct. But let the product, reputations and the records speak. That's the best way to promote. Click here to enlarge




    Here we go again. The "you don't know, i know" game. OK, you have the gift to know what's wrong and what's right. That's cool.



    Don't you think so? Check post #8:


    And now Weistec's response in post #10


    You didn't even know Weistec's story, the company that is a vendor here and you went out checking their facility, now you want us to believe that YOU KNOW what was/is going on in Kleemann, a company based in Denmark? Please.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
    I agree. I'm a total idiot.
    Still, it takes balls to admit you are wrong and especially write the above. That in it's own right deserves respect.

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