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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    ...
    Someone walks into a school/mall/movie theater and takes a few shots, someone with a pistol returns fire and neutralizes the shooter. Problem de-escalated.

    its true..its a lot diferent when someone is shooting back at you

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    man thats horrible..from now on, my gun goes everywhere I do
    My fathers takes his, even into the gym and keeps it in his workout bag (by his side) while he is working out, Its horrible to say, but you could end up saving a lot of people if the situation arose and YOU WHERE PROPERLY PREPARED beforehand.




  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    My fathers takes his, even into the gym and keeps it in his workout bag (by his side) while he is working out, Its horrible to say, but you could end up saving a lot of people if the situation arose and YOU WHERE PROPERLY PREPARED beforehand.
    very true man, very true

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    @dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks no no How do you think taking away everyone's legal properly used guns would "fix" a criminal problem? That has a socially driven mental issue.

    Do you really think that someone that is going to go shoot a bunch of people care if the gun is "legal"?

    Do you think that it would honestly be harder for a criminal that plans on killing himself after to find a illegal gun if it there was a "ban" in the US? Really?

    If you answered "yes it would be harder" think about all of the illegal pot that is moved all over the US, all illegal, not hard to find..

    The mall shooting last week, the guns used where all stolen ILLEGAL guns (just a fact).
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    look at mexico..some of the strongest gun laws in the world..yet the leading cause of death in mexico is gun violence..
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

    The lady mentioned who wanted to go for her .38 was a champion target shooter. No doubt, had she had her pistol on her instead of in her car, that incident would have ended much differently.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    I would actually say, if everyone had a weapon and was properly trained with it, there would be less crime..

    Someone walks into a school/mall/movie theater and takes a few shots, someone with a pistol returns fire and neutralizes the shooter. Problem de-escalated.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    man thats horrible..from now on, my gun goes everywhere I do
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    My fathers takes his, even into the gym and keeps it in his workout bag (by his side) while he is working out, Its horrible to say, but you could end up saving a lot of people if the situation arose and YOU WHERE PROPERLY PREPARED beforehand.
    Given the situation you're in as a society that allows guns I don't see any other way but to have everyone have a gun strapped to them 24/7. However, I am still of an opinion that a ban on guns will see these issues minimized as it'll be harder to get to them. Look at other countries..

    You can use a gun for self defence but you wouldn't need to if a guy came out flying fists and you took a large 2x4 and beat the crap out of them Click here to enlarge or threw a bottle in their face...there are ways...when guns are involved though and so readily out there you clearly have no choice BUT to let everyone else have them and live in fear of someone else trying to shoot you or your children in class...what's next? Equip all the children with guns and have all schools have them strapped to each desk so they can defend themselves? C'mon guys Click here to enlarge its really clear MUCH stricter gun control or a full ban is needed here. No one is talking criminals here, we're talking kids!

    Gun violence in Mexico...please don't go there, that's another topic...that's gang related violence that's inevitable and there are solutions other than gun control to that which need to come from the government/law down into the society...that's very different that what's happening in classrooms here
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    I guess my point is that we have ahad our gun rights since the birth of our country, yet it seems like only recently these horrible thinhs have been happening..i just really think society is the problem, not the guns..like i said..if guns were banned, this guy would have probaly found something else to do this
    Exactly. There are plenty of other countries/societies with very high numbers of legal guns per captita, enough for a solid sample size, yet they have low gun crime rates and tragedies such as these and yet these things keep happening here. Perhaps it's been a large downward march from morality, from community, a fragmentation and loss of values. I don't know what it is. Maybe some of the social changes that have taken place over the past 100 years have been fine in the short term but ultimately destructive. Perhaps the fragmentation caused by the aggressive and rapid modernization of society has really taken hold. I just don't know anymore. But as I sit here watching an ironically beautiful, strikingly red sunset, I reflect on my increasingly bearish feelings on the moral, character and social fiber of our society as a whole with each passing year...and it makes me awfully sad.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    ...


    Gun violence in Mexico...please don't go there, that's another topic...that's gang related violence that's inevitable and there are solutions other than gun control to that which need to come from the government/law down into the society...that's very different that what's happening in classrooms here
    I agree but I was just trying to make a point..criminals will find ways of breaking the law, because thats what they do..Im all for sticter gun control, but I dont think a full ban is the answer..

    china for example, no guns but it seems like every other month some crazy guy is slashing kids with a machete in school..eveil people will do evil things, and owning a gun is IMO, the best way to defend yourself from the crazy aholes out there

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Exactly. There are plenty of other countries/societies with very high numbers of legal guns per captita, enough for a solid sample size, yet they have low gun crime rates and tragedies such as these and yet these things keep happening here. Perhaps it's been a large downward march from morality, from community, a fragmentation and loss of values. I don't know what it is. Maybe some of the social changes that have taken place over the past 100 years have been fine in the short term but ultimately destructive. Perhaps the fragmentation caused by the aggressive and rapid modernization of society has really taken hold. I just don't know anymore. But as I sit here watching an ironically beautiful, strikingly red sunset, I reflect on my increasingly bearish feelings on the moral, character and social fiber of our society as a whole with each passing year...and it makes me awfully sad.
    I share your sentiments

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    hell..look at switzerland i think it is..everyone at age 16 or 18(?) gets a government issued rifle..yet we dont hear about this happening over there..

    a responsible adult with a firearm make this world alot safer for all of us..sorry that just how I feel, and I know many wont agree with me

    the problem is weeding out the irresponible from the responsible

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    hell..look at switzerland i think it is..everyone at age 16 or 18(?) gets a government issued rifle..yet we dont hear about this happening over there..

    a responsible adult with a firearm make this world alot safer for all of us..sorry that just how I feel, and I know many wont agree with me

    the problem is weeding out the irresponible from the responsible
    They come back from the army with the gun they were trained with. They also go back into military service on a periodic basis. That's very different than someone random getting a gun and being proud they got a bigger one than the other guy that can penetrate through anything...and they also picked up some hand grenades too along the way...i'm sorry, i'm just very negative on the whole gun topic and to me i just see no other way but to lock them down heavily
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Given the situation you're in as a society that allows guns I don't see any other way but to have everyone have a gun strapped to them 24/7. However, I am still of an opinion that a ban on guns will see these issues minimized as it'll be harder to get to them. Look at other countries..
    apologies for being blunt, but you're wrong.

    In the late 1990s, England moved from stringent controls to acomplete ban of all handguns and many types of long guns.Hundreds of thousands of guns were confiscated from thoseowners law‐abiding enough to turn them in to authorities.Without suggesting this caused violence, the ban’s ineffective‐ness was such that by the year 2000 violent crime had so in‐creased that England and Wales had Europe’s highest violentcrime rate, far surpassing even the United States.




    More interesting information in the linked research paper:

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Given the situation you're in as a society that allows guns I don't see any other way but to have everyone have a gun strapped to them 24/7. However, I am still of an opinion that a ban on guns will see these issues minimized as it'll be harder to get to them. Look at other countries..

    You can use a gun for self defence but you wouldn't need to if a guy came out flying fists and you took a large 2x4 and beat the crap out of them Click here to enlarge or threw a bottle in their face...there are ways...when guns are involved though and so readily out there you clearly have no choice BUT to let everyone else have them and live in fear of someone else trying to shoot you or your children in class...what's next? Equip all the children with guns and have all schools have them strapped to each desk so they can defend themselves? C'mon guys Click here to enlarge its really clear MUCH stricter gun control or a full ban is needed here. No one is talking criminals here, we're talking kids!

    Gun violence in Mexico...please don't go there, that's another topic...that's gang related violence that's inevitable and there are solutions other than gun control to that which need to come from the government/law down into the society...that's very different that what's happening in classrooms here
    Ok i respect your opinion, lets have a mature conversation about this Click here to enlarge

    So you think taking guns away from people that use them to protect themselves will reduce shootings? I personally do not no anybody that carries a weapon, that has ever shot or killed anybody.
    or
    You think that a gun ban would make it "harder" (even though to buy a pistol in fl you have to wait 3 days, after your background check etc.) for someone that is looking to use it in a illegal fashion.. Which you're right, we wouldn't have gun stores, we would have illegal gun stores Click here to enlarge Out of homes, cars etc, just like the currently pot problem.

    Please explain how a gun ban would have prevented the recent mall shooting where both guns used where not legal. (you could say if it was illegal it would be harder to find a gun, yes you are correct, But in reality thats like saying nobody would ever break into a house because the front door is locked.)

    Criminals will find weapons to commit crime, but banning weapons from people, is taking away a protection eliminate that will make us dependent on "cops" and last time I called the cops (truck was stolen from driveway) it took them more then 30 minutes to arrive.

    Maybe what we really need to look at our society and the influx of recent mass murders and then look at other "personal" issues affecting our society. Starting with, where do people get/learn morals in todays society? TV (haha no), Radio (haha no), Schools?? (do you think that they teach good morals, I personally don't but thats my opinion)

    And since more people don't believe in a "god" or "higher power" these days, they obviously are not getting it their.

    There is no good and bad for society these days, we're numb to violence, and things like this will continue to escalate..

    edit* for typo's and to fix my poor english Click here to enlarge (or try)
    Last edited by Legionofboom; 12-14-2012 at 06:08 PM.




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    just glad we can have a civil conversation here..theres a lot of filth being spewed right now over the interent..its really sad actually

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Ok i respect your opinion, lets have a mature conversation about this Click here to enlarge

    So you think taking guns away from people that use them to protect themselves will reduce shootings. I personally do not no anybody that carries a weapon, that has ever shot or killed anybody.

    Please explain how a gun ban would have prevented the recent mall shooting where both guns used where not legal.

    Maybe what we really need to look at our society and the influx of recent mass murders and then look at other "personal" issues affecting our society. Starting with, where do people get/learn morals in todays society? TV (haha no), Radio (haha no), Schools?? (do you think that they teach good morals, I personally don't but thats my opinion)

    And since more people don't believe in a "god" or "higher power" these days, they obviously are not getting it their.

    There is no good and bad for society these days, we're numb to violence and things like this will continue to escalate..
    Funny you mention that, as I've always believed that most "religions" (I say that because Eastern religions are conceptualized as such by Western society, when they function differently than Western religion) are essentially guidelines/frameworks to having a healthy, productive society, and to being a healthy, productive member of said society, and that the people in charge are the ones who ultimately corrupt the lessons to serve their own interests. Ironically, the very behavior that leads religion to become corrupted by leaders is what the religion tries to prevent or mitigate in the first place. Anyhow, I don't know what came first, the decline in religion or a decline in community/society, but whatever there is, there obviously is a moral vacuum that has been growing for decades, and I really don't know what it will take to reverse the trend.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Funny you mention that, as I've always believed that most "religions" (I say that because Eastern religions are conceptualized as such by Western society, when they function differently than Western religion) are essentially guidelines/frameworks to having a healthy, productive society, and to being a healthy, productive member of said society, and that the people in charge are the ones who ultimately corrupt the lessons to serve their own interests. Ironically, the very behavior that leads religion to become corrupted by leaders is what the religion tries to prevent or mitigate in the first place. Anyhow, I don't know what came first, the decline in religion or a decline in community/society, but whatever there is, there obviously is a moral vacuum that has been growing for decades, and I really don't know what it will take to reverse the trend.
    economical collapse, where we have to get back to "farm living" and out of the bureaucracy bull$#@!.

    Define farm living: Living off land and one another, almost like amish (not sure if i spelled that correctly)




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    My engine builder buddy that I used to work with build mustang engines/heads/etc lives there. Been there many times. Small, rural, sleepy section of Newtown, CT. It looks like the name (shady and peaceful).

    My boss's kids went to a different school in the town so suffice it to say he almost crapped himself when he first saw the news. Been on the phone with his wife on/off all day.

    I was listening the Fairfield County police scanner on my scanner radio app when the police were still en route. Sad and scary stuff.

    When they reported the classroom full of murdered children, my day and a lot of others here pretty much went to heck.

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    This post by e92 is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.



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    Yes banning guns could probably prevent some of these types of deaths but how exactly would you measure that to see if the trampling of everyone's rights is worth it?

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    not a ban on guns... a limitation on guns; in other words complete rewording of 2nd amendment. Not you can have a gun simply because you live here but rather you can have a gun if you are mentally fit and competent. I would highly advise the enactment of deep and thorough psychological and background testing to be able to carry or buy a gun.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    not a ban on guns... a limitation on guns; in other words complete rewording of 2nd amendment. Not you can have a gun simply because you live here but rather you can have a gun if you are mentally fit and competent. I would highly advise the enactment of deep and thorough psychological and background testing to be able to carry or buy a gun.
    Yes i'd vote for that...current situation is really absurd and not doing anything directly about it imho will only make things worse...that and working on values and morals more than what most have been accustomed to with today's so called "busy" lifestyles
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    not a ban on guns... a limitation on guns; in other words complete rewording of 2nd amendment. Not you can have a gun simply because you live here but rather you can have a gun if you are mentally fit and competent. I would highly advise the enactment of deep and thorough psychological and background testing to be able to carry or buy a gun.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    That's exactly what I've been saying for years.
    Again, how would this protect people from an illegal person getting a illegal gun and committing a illegal crime. It wouldn't. Nobody that is going to commit a crime cares about the laws. This is all pre meditated and planned out, its not a random shooting (like the person is mad and goes out and buys a gun to shoot someone).

    It would just make it harder for the honest person to have another form of protection.

    (hypothetical)
    Now lets look at the flip side, each teacher has a pistol, hears gunshots, kids and teacher barricade themselves into the room, Shooter A breaches the door and the teacher fires at the incoming intruder.
    Last edited by Legionofboom; 12-14-2012 at 07:09 PM.




  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    not a ban on guns... a limitation on guns; in other words complete rewording of 2nd amendment. Not you can have a gun simply because you live here but rather you can have a gun if you are mentally fit and competent. I would highly advise the enactment of deep and thorough psychological and background testing to be able to carry or buy a gun.
    That's exactly what I've been saying for years.
    Click here to enlarge
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    I don't buy the "decline in religion = a decline in morals" for one millisecond. Regardless of religion all religious holy books are VERY dicey when it comes to how moral they are.

    I'm as atheist as they come and I would consider myself to be a person of very sound morals. And not because of a promise of a reward or punishment in the after life but because it's the right thing to do.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I don't buy the "decline in religion = a decline in morals" for one millisecond. Regardless of religion all religious holy books are VERY dicey when it comes to how moral they are.

    I'm as atheist as they come and I would consider myself to be a person of very sound morals. And not because of a promise of a reward or punishment in the after life but because it's the right thing to do.
    I understand how it opposes your views because you feel that you have morals and have found them with other sources. BUT for many, there religion is what guides them to what is good and bad (or good and evil)

    Without this, people get lost (maybe not you, or your friends) but people in general. You have to have a base, a belief that forms your morals

    Why do you think society is declining in such a rapid rate, and almost opposite of the religious beliefs?
    Last edited by Legionofboom; 12-14-2012 at 07:22 PM.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92 Click here to enlarge
    Thank you for showing us, that our society is still numb




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    Well this is a dicey subject that will cause a never ending argument. Not too long ago I remember we already had a thread on this when the movie theater shooting happened earlier this year in Aurora. This country has pretty lax gun control and that leads to many guns circulating, changing, hands both legally and illegally. The only thing we can do here is ask some questions on what possibly can remedy or lessen the probability of something like this occurring again.

    1. A full ban on guns?
    2. A stricter gun control? No assault weapons?
    3. Stricter background checks? Psychological evaluations every few years, with heavy fines if you miss your evaluation?
    4. Giving police more power to crack down on illegal weapons?

    I will think that number 1 on the list doesn't have any chance ever occurring in this country. Number 4 seems like a very real possibility, the police forces in this country have been quietly growing in power. Personally I would be all for number 3 on that list. Keep guns in the hands of the responsible people.
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