Close

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,230
    Rep Points
    502.1
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No

    2014 E63 4Matic Test

    Friend of mine just sent me this. Sounds like this new E is going to be a game changer. Add a tune and it will be ridiculous.


    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1212_2014_mercedes_benz_e63_amg_4matic_development _mule_first_look/viewall.html#ixzz2E1lItkwo



    Mercedes-Benz is going to introduce the refreshed 2014 E-Class this January at the Detroit Show. That of course means a new E63 AMG is coming, both sedan and wagon. We love cars of that nature. We also noticed a couple of things when we tested the wildly excellent Audi S8 last month. One is that its 4.0-liter, twin-turbo V-8 made around 575 horsepower (we stuck it on a dyno) and not 520 hp, as Audi claims. The other is that AWD makes a whole lot of sense in a near-600-hp sedan. And the S8 wasn't the first time we noticed the performance advantage AWD has over RWD in two-ton-plus sedans. When we pitted the AWD Porsche Panamera GTS against the RWD BMW M5, there was only a 0.1-second difference in the 0-60 time, despite near identical vehicle weights and the M5's 130 horsepower advantage over the Porsche. Moreover, the GTS was able to keep up with the M5 on twisty roads because of its traction advantage. We're obviously not the only folks noticing this trend, as AMG CEO Ola Kaellenius invited yours truly down to get a preview of the new E63 AMG 4Matic. Yup, for the first time ever, a non-SUV AMG product will come complete with AWD. And I got a day in the passenger seat. Click here to enlarge "We didn't just use Mercedes' all-wheel-drive system. That wouldn't work for AMG." So said Ola a few days earlier at a sit down in our office. "Yeah," chimed in Tobias Moers, the refreshingly blunt head of AMG Vehicle Development. "We completely reengineered 4Matic to make it work for us." The biggest difference between regular 4Matic and the AMG version is a permanent torque split. In the Mercedes version, the standard split is 45/55 front/rear. However, if conditions change, torque can be moved to the wheels that are losing grip, from 30/70 to 70/30. Not so with the AMG version. Torque is cut 33/67 front to back, and that's how it stays. There are two main reasons why this is. One is that AMG is first and foremost a performance company. The second -- and this ties into the first -- is that by removing all three of the electronically locking clutches and reducing the size of the rear half-shafts, the AWD E63's weight only goes up by 44 pounds, according to AMG. A pretty impressive achievement if true -- we'll weigh it as soon as we can and let you know. The last E63 sedan we weighed checked in at 4347 pounds, meaning the AWD version could be as "light" as 4391 pounds, or about the same as the RWD M5 (4406 pounds) if AMG is right. Also, Ola and Tobias did little more than smile at me when I asked, but I think we can infer that the next S63 will be AWD as well. The S65 will remain RWD.
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge


    I was given the rare opportunity for a ridealong in two of the three camouflaged pre-production 2014 E63 AMG 4Matic mules that currently exist. In fact, after myself and a few other auto-journo types were done, AMG crated 'em both up and shipped them off to Spain for further testing. Interestingly, the two cars were dressed differently. They were initially camo'd identically, but because one car would be running around an autocross course AMG set up on the former Marine base El Toro (where we film our World's Greatest Drag Race videos), Tobias ripped off the panels hiding the front fascia because they were blocking the radiator and the twin intercoolers. As you'll read in a bit, the car needed them. Much to the chagrin of the AMG PR folks, this partially revealed the new, much sportier-looking AMG corporate nose. The big news is a curved front splitter they're calling the A-Wing. (Let's hope Disney, which just bought "Star Wars," doesn't sue!) In the photos it's taped up black, but I strongly suspect that underneath it's chromed. The A-Wing is but a small part of AMG's new design language that we'll first see fully implemented when the new C-Class launches in about 18 months. Rumor has it that flics will be standard! Click here to enlarge We set off towards the track from the unbelievably posh Montage Hotel in Laguna Beach in the silver, less disguised E63. AMG went so far as to camouflage the interior with a series of black, neoprene-like shrouds. About 20 seconds into our journey, Tobias tore off the piece covering the navigation screen. "It used to be beige," he spit, obviously annoyed at the halfhearted effort to conceal the refreshed E-Class's innards. "Now it's gray." Tobias was referring to the background color of the COMAND system. Benz must have shelled out for a more expensive video card, because the graphics in the test mule looked much sharper than in current Mercedes models. As for the rest of the interior, I didn't look too closely (the metal vents are pretty sweet), but the unhidden steering wheel looks much more "sportive."
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge As we roll up to the staging area, Tobias finds a nice secluded strip of runway to show me the refreshed E63's launch control. He twists the knob from C through S and S+ to Race Launch (just like in the range-topping SLS Gullwing), stands on the brake and the throttle, and dumps the brake. Yup. AWD makes an already extremely quick car feel even quicker. Consider this: The last E63 sedan we tested -- a 2012 model -- hit 60 mph in 3.8 seconds. Tobias tells me that the new car will do 60 mph in 3.4 seconds. "Well, it does 100 kilometers an hour in 3.5 seconds. So, we removed a tenth." If 3.4 seconds is indeed accurate, the new E63 will be the quickest four-door vehicle in the world. Currently, the Porsche Panamera Turbo, Panamera Turbo S, and Audi S8 are all tied up at 3.5 seconds to 60 mph. And if that 0-60 time holds true, the next E63 should easily run the quarter-mile in the elevens. Based on the two blasts I experienced, it's hard to say. The mule felt quick, for sure. But it also happened to be sprinkling, and the runway we were on was not only slick, but in particularly poor shape. Obviously, as soon as they give us a production version we'll test the bejesus out of it. With AWD and launch control, you can expect a pretty sensational number. Especially because the E63 will be packing more wallop. Click here to enlarge We must first discuss how AMG used to do it, and still does it for the time being. The current E63 comes with a 518 hp 5.5-liter twin-turbo V-8 that produces 516 lb-ft of torque. However, you can opt for the Performance Package, which nets you 550 hp and a ridiculous 590 lb-ft of twisting force. I can't get into the specifics (AMG made me promise to keep a bunch of stuff secret -- sorry) but you can forget about this two-pronged approach. Starting with this car, the M157 engine will produce 575 horsepower and an unspecified for now (though with AMG you can always assume more) amount of torque. That's right, the horsepower wars are dead like Frankenstein. The familiar seven-speed, wet-clutch planetary transmission remains. The cars I rode in didn't have it, but U.S.-spec E63s will have a rear limited-slip differential. Tobias claims the suspension hasn't been altered too much, but obviously the AWD components necessitated some fiddling -- a steering knuckle here, a refined damping rate there, etc. However, the front wheels receive 1.9 degrees of camber. Carbon ceramic brakes are still -- of course -- an option, and the silver mule had 'em. It also had fancy new Pirellis on the same size wheels as before 255/35R19 front, 285/30R19 rear. I should note that the horrible surfaces at El Toro (and the drifting) chewed them right up. I wouldn't be surprised if the production car showed up with some different meats.
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge
    • Click here to enlarge


    Yeah, drifting. To borrow a phrase from O.J. Simpson, if I drove it, I could tell you that on initial turn in, the AWD E63 feels tail-happy. Remember that with the 2:1 fixed torque split, more than 400 lb-ft of torque (probably) is being shot to the rear wheels. More than enough to send its butt sliding. To reel the back end in, a yank of opposite lock and an increase in throttle are all it takes to get the front end to bite. At least, that's what Tobias seemed to be up to from my perch in the passenger seat. I'd also like to be able to definitively tell you that new E63 feels more aggressive, more nimble, more sporting. Sure seemed that way, but obviously I can't say for sure. If I drove it, I'm fairly sure I would have been impressed. What did greatly impress me is how well this Tobias cat can drive. All heads of development should be so gifted. And if you need proof of Tobias' driving prowess transferring to products, look no further than the C63 Black Series, a car he developed and the second-place finisher at our 2012 Best Driver's Car. Click here to enlarge What I can say with certainty is this: A vacuum has opened atop the segment once dominated by the BMW M5. Since the M5 is now essentially a super-fast long-haul cruiser (as opposed to a precision sports car in executive sedan clothing), the segment crown is up for grabs. And the competition is fierce. Right now, the best is either the Porsche Panamera ($$$$) or the Cadillac CTS-V ($$). But let's not forget about the Tesla Model S, the just-announced 550-hp Jaguar XFR-S or the not-really-announced (however, the head of Quattro GmbH told me it's coming, so I'm calling it fair game) but significantly more than 520-hp Audi RS7. Truthfully, the 420 hp S6 and S7 are both pretty incredible machines as is. And then of course there's this new AWD E63, and the CLS63 AMG that will be released simultaneously. Which one will be the champ? Can't say. But I can tell you that it will be one comparison test I wouldn't miss for all the horsepower in Swabia. Especially since we'll be driving it.
    Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2E1u6qKpL

    Last edited by LZH; 12-03-2012 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Yep: http://benzboost.com/content.php?288...h-transmission

    Luke post more than just a link though.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,230
    Rep Points
    502.1
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yep: http://benzboost.com/content.php?288...h-transmission

    Luke post more than just a link though.
    Edited Click here to enlarge

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No

    Confirmed: 2014 W212 E63 AMG facelift will have all wheel drive and 575 horsepower from the M157 but no dual clutch transmission - No more Performance Package

    All hail what appears to be (at least on paper) the new king of the luxury performance sedan segment. The current E63 AMG is already a beast but as reported in October was rumored to get all wheel drive and a dual clutch transmission. Part of that report is now confirmed by MotorTrend who got to spend some time with the new E63 AMG. This will be one the first non-SUV AMG vehicles to get all wheel drive which will coming to more and more models such as the CLA45 AMG.

    Click here to enlarge

    Mercedes did not just stick the standard 4Matic on the E63, they tailored it to AMG. Head of AMG development Tobias Moers stated, ""We completely reengineered 4Matic to make it work for us." This means the torque split between the front and rear wheels is 33/67 for the E63 AMG all wheel drive unlike 45/55 in the standard E-Class 4Matic. The desire obviously to maintain the rear wheel drive character as much as possible.

    Not only that, by by removing all three electronically locking clutches in this version and reducing the size of the rear half-shifts the weight gain penalty will only be 44 pounds. That means with all wheel drive the car will still weigh about as much as the F10 M5. Not bad at all.

    The M157 engine is getting a boost to 575 horsepower, more than the 550 offered by the Performance Package today. This appears to be done by more than just software with some hardware changes to go with it. The horsepower number will vault the E63 AMG ahead of all challengers.

    The downside? No dual clutch transmission, the 7-speed automatic remains. Fairly disappointing as Audi, Porsche, and BMW offer dual clutch transmissions. It certainly is possible that the new Audi RS6 will be able to rival the E63 AMG. Regardless, with all wheel drive and more power the E63 certainly is raising and set to take the throne.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Source

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,327
    Rep Points
    2,780.2
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    I dont think I would mind it not having the DCT...have you ever driven an SL65? The trans will shift soft or firm depending on how bad you are mashing the go pedal...floored in 1st and paddle shifting it, the shift to 2nd barked the tires and snapped my head back in the seat....same for 3rd. Even if the rest of the Benz sucks, its motor and certain the transmission seem to remain some of the best features they have ever released...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    The world...
    Posts
    1,331
    Rep Points
    1,202.2
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13


    Yes Reputation No
    A DCT w Launch Control would seriously make this a GTR competitor in straight lines lolol.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
    I dont think I would mind it not having the DCT...have you ever driven an SL65? The trans will shift soft or firm depending on how bad you are mashing the go pedal...floored in 1st and paddle shifting it, the shift to 2nd barked the tires and snapped my head back in the seat....same for 3rd. Even if the rest of the Benz sucks, its motor and certain the transmission seem to remain some of the best features they have ever released...
    The Benz auto just isn't as good as a DCT.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    A DCT w Launch Control would seriously make this a GTR competitor in straight lines lolol.
    That's what I thought we were getting.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    380
    Rep Points
    672.5
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Yes Reputation No
    I wonder if it will feature a RS AMG 4matic (Race Start aka. Launch control) like on their current AMG MCT Rwd. Since, RS it's not featured in the 4Matic ML63 / GL63 or G63 non-MCT converter.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if it will feature a RS AMG 4matic (Race Start aka. Launch control) like on their current AMG MCT Rwd. Since, RS it's not featured in the 4Matic ML63 / GL63 or G63 non-MCT converter.
    Yes, launch control is standard.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    380
    Rep Points
    672.5
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, launch control is standard.
    Hope so! A E63 AMG 4matic w/RS will be interesting in 0-100 launches.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    Hope so! A E63 AMG 4matic w/RS will be interesting in 0-100 launches.
    It's confirmed, launch control is included. Definitely will be interesting but I'm still disappointed over the lack of a dual clutch transmission.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,230
    Rep Points
    502.1
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6



    Yes Reputation No
    Can you imagine if they built a Black Series widebody variant ???

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -95.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Since when AWD has become cool? I'm really disappointed here.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Since when AWD has become cool? I'm really disappointed here.
    When cars started making so much power you couldn't mash the throttle out of first or second gear in stock form.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -95.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    When cars started making so much power you couldn't mash the throttle out of first or second gear in stock form.
    It's buyers' problem, not automakers'. If i can't handle a powerful RWD car, then i don't buy it. SMH at this.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    It's buyers' problem, not automakers'. If i can't handle a powerful RWD car, then i don't buy it. SMH at this.
    Um ok. Well they are offering all wheel drive so if you want rear wheel drive get an the pre-facelift version or an M5 instead I guess.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    3,230
    Rep Points
    502.1
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    It's buyers' problem, not automakers'. If i can't handle a powerful RWD car, then i don't buy it. SMH at this.
    HUH ??? That really doesn't make sense. Automakers are constantly trying to figure out how to make cars perform better. It's no secret that AWD is almost always better than RWD - it's simple physics. And they did say that the AMG 4Matic is going to be very different than the normal 4Matic. I doubt the normal person would ever know it's AWD until the system saves their life. For the enthusiast it will be a godsend. Especially after these new cars get modded to 800hp. Only question is how stout they will build the driveline. Lots of extra parts to break in an AWD application. But if what they have been building is any indication of whats to come, I think were are going to see some crazy fast tune only AMG's very soon. Personally, I think the fixed torque split is going to be amazing and stil allow the car to get tail happy if you want it to. Just going to take a lot more skill to do it...and no more big huge smoky burnouts.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -95.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    For the enthusiast it will be a godsend.
    Then i'm not a enthusiast, so as the dozens of people who buy 911 GT3 and GT2. Because the enthusiasts go and buy 911 TT. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH
    I doubt the normal person would ever know it's AWD until the system saves their life.
    Exactly, why normal person doesn't stick to the normal car?
    .
    .
    .
    It's not even a discussion. GT-R is dull and what-not because it's an automatic forced-induction AWD car, but an AMG with similar stuff is cool! Nothing against to you though Click here to enlarge, i'm just so mad at this. AMG lost it's respect IMHO.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Then i'm not a enthusiast, so as the dozens of people who buy 911 GT3 and GT2. Because the enthusiasts go and buy 911 TT.
    The 911 is rear engined, more weight over the rear wheels for traction. Also produces much less torque especially the GT3.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    i'm just so mad at this. AMG lost it's respect IMHO.
    They are gaining it with this and the Black Series cars. M has lost respect.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,217
    Rep Points
    1,816.3
    Mentioned
    103 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Since when AWD has become cool? I'm really disappointed here.
    R35 GTR (give credit to the 997 Turbo since that also has AWD & was the GTR's rival). The AWD system (and it's programming) has illustrated that you can have retard performance, AWD & still out handle (and out corner) RWD cars

    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    has illustrated that you can have retard performance, AWD & still out handle (and out corner) RWD cars
    Unfortunately power is making this somewhat true but 458 Italias, McLaren MP4-12c's, and other cars show you can be rear wheel drive and very high performance. The All Wheel Drive definitely helps drivers. It also isn't as exciting.

    But, that said, all wheel drive will become more prevalent especially with these insane levels of torque they are now pushing even stock. Somewhat due to needing to move stupid heavy cars.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,298
    Rep Points
    32,731.6
    Mentioned
    2131 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Here's a rendering of what the E63 might look like although with the gaping holes I doubt it is accurate:

    Click here to enlarge

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •