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  1. #26
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    Don't the injectors also have potential long terms effect to e85? As in shortening thier life?
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    So what is undercover changing on the n54 to run high concentrations of e85?
    I believe Garth has revised the Walbro 450 install so it gets better flow & doesn't have the problems some people are reporting (disconnecting fuel lines)

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS
    Don't the injectors also have potential long terms effect to e85? As in shortening thier life?
    Sure they do, but the injectors with the N54 are a joke & they're also the only injector that works (we're also on the 3rd injector revision, but BMW still refuses to warranty or replace them in good faith). It's also pretty clear at this point that a reliable, high HP fueling system for the N54 is going to be a nightmare.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is the fuel line and fittings the main things needed? What else would I need?

    I'm planning on running FTW Purple.
    Like Alex said, anything the fuel is coming into contact with you'll want to make sure is high ethanol concentration proof to avoid any headaches down the road. Fuel lines, pumps, injectors, surge tanks, etc etc; the pumps are probably the most important because you'll need to make sure they are able to move enough fuel in the 1st place.

    But regarding you running the FTW on your YSI setup, are there even worthwhile gains to be made? It's not like you'll swap out the pulley everytime you switch between pump & the FTW fuel, so the only adjustments that can be made are timing advance & VANOS/cam adjustments. It's not like a turbo car where the benefits of E85 are really noticed --- Significantly more timing, better spool, higher boost, etc etc
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    But regarding you running the FTW on your YSI setup, are there even worthwhile gains to be made? It's not like you'll swap out the pulley everytime you switch between pump & the FTW fuel,
    Actually I would swap out the pulley. It's the kill mode setup and the FTW Purple will allow greater timing gains which is where the majority of the power on the same boost comes from.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    It's not like a turbo car where the benefits of E85 are really noticed --- Significantly more timing, better spool, higher boost, etc etc
    Why does the turbo car get significantly more timing gains? Why can I not get higher boost too? I will be.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Actually I would swap out the pulley
    Fair

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Why does the turbo car get significantly more timing gains? Why can I not get higher boost too? I will be.
    It's just a HUGE inconvenience to take off the belts, swap the pulleys & reinstall everything on a supercharged car, where on a turbo car you can easily just run a different software setting (E85 tune) without having to make any hardware adjustments.
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    It's just a HUGE inconvenience to take off the belts, swap the pulleys & reinstall everything on a supercharged car, where on a turbo car you can easily just run a different software setting (E85 tune) without having to make any hardware adjustments.
    But my car isn't turbo, it's SC, so I change pulleys as that is the nature of it. It's really not that big of a deal. When I go to the track I do it and run the appropriate fuel. On the street I keep it in its street setup.

  6. #31
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    Hell if that was my setup, I would have a wastegate installed in the plenum and just swap springs (or boost controller to wastegate on a small spring) accordingly. Way faster, way easier, way quicker.

    It would be like putting too big of a super charger on a small engine....throw a wastegate on it to make sure it ran low boost, so it didnt hurt the engine. Easy. A precision 46mm I'm sure would handle that.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by continue5 Click here to enlarge
    I think a-lot of people skipped it and dropped in the 200$ walbro pump in due to cost,although I think most have picked up headaches as well due to the drop in's reliability and hoses popping off.. There are a few members running the flexfuel kit with great success though, @wedge has a few videos of him destroying some impressive cars with 100% e85.
    We have the solution to the lines popping off.
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    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

  8. #33
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    OKAY....

    Although we use so much ethanol here on everything we build we should have our own station on site. I currently do not agree with 90% of DI owners to use it, until there is a better solution and REAL flex fuel strategy. With not knowing exactly what Ethanol content you are running it really cannot be tuned properly. The 10% of people I would say go for it are guys who are familiar with using it or people that are very involved with making power with their cars at the expense of anything.

    The maintenance required to run ethanol is increased. And as long as you are educated on it and perform correct safety precautions, while keeping your fuel delivery system properly maintained you will never have an issue.

    I have not tested all the lines yet on the n54, but most so far are 100% compatible. We have a nice solution to the upgraded lpfp pump line popping off however and have tested heavily with ethanol on the n54. Along with the vargas hpfp and rail. We really need a larger turbo car here to have more information on the limits of the upgraded fuel system.

    Although I know e85 is far superior and safer than using water/meth, the n54/55 platform is only on the brink of being able to properly use it. Therefor use at your own risk and take the time to learn about ethyl alcohol
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    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

  9. #34
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    Anyone know what the E92 M3 fuel system would need to be 100% compatible?

  10. #35
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    one that i build youClick here to enlarge
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    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercover Click here to enlarge
    OKAY....

    Although we use so much ethanol here on everything we build we should have our own station on site. I currently do not agree with 90% of DI owners to use it, until there is a better solution and REAL flex fuel strategy. With not knowing exactly what Ethanol content you are running it really cannot be tuned properly. The 10% of people I would say go for it are guys who are familiar with using it or people that are very involved with making power with their cars at the expense of anything.

    The maintenance required to run ethanol is increased. And as long as you are educated on it and perform correct safety precautions, while keeping your fuel delivery system properly maintained you will never have an issue.

    I have not tested all the lines yet on the n54, but most so far are 100%
    compatible. We have a nice solution to the upgraded lpfp pump line popping
    off however and have tested heavily with ethanol on the n54. Along with the
    vargas hpfp and rail. We really need a larger turbo car here to have more
    information on the limits of the upgraded fuel system.

    Although I know e85 is far superior and safer than using water/meth, the n54/55 platform is only on the brink of being able to properly use it. Therefor use at your own risk and take the time to learn about ethyl alcohol

    Great post, just as I thought.
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  12. #37
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    Since my pumps are upgraded I think all I need to do are the lines? I hope so.

  13. #38
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    what kind of pumps? how is it routed?
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    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

  14. #39
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    I have no clue I'll need to get more info.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Since my pumps are upgraded I think all I need to do are the lines? I hope so.
    Check with Gintani -- Make sure the pumps are capable of pumping enough fuel & were designed for ethanol use. Also, I have no idea what specific injectors your kit is using, but I know the most of the ~650 BHP kits use Bosch injectors, which I don't believe were designed for ethanol use (look into Injector Dynamics/Fuel Injector Clinic & see if they make anything that'll work on your S65)
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  16. #41
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    Hey hey hey! I have a set of ID1000's (6) that have about 4 hours of dyno time on them before we maxed em out and went to ID2000's........ I'll ditch em for 600 + the ride. They just need new terminal ends (cheap). Plugs are included.
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  17. #42
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    @Sticky I went 100% e85 as soon as I got my car. Although its not DI it'll be similar other than the HPFP. I went with -8AN feed/-6AN return e85 compatible fuel lines. I'm running the walboro 416Lph e85 in tank pump hardwired to high voltage only. Having done that it overran my stock FPR so I had to upgrade that. I went with an automotive FPR and FIC fuel rail. I had to modify my pump hanger slightly as there was a restriction I drilled out I'm running ID2000cc injectors. Rumor is the n54 injectors are capae of 2200cc. If the M3 are also those will support at least 900hp on e85. You'll want to upgrade to e85 compatible and prob larger size fuel lines. You said your pumps are already upgraded so you should be good there. I'd say if your current injectors are the same as n54 you should be able to run 100% e85 with a new tune.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  18. #43
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    S65 is still port injection, so ID1000's or ID2000's are in his future.
    N54 injectors are direct injection......
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    S65 is still port injection, so ID1000's or ID2000's are in his future.
    N54 injectors are direct injection......
    See any reason upgrade port injection injectors like you mentioned would have any issues?

  20. #45
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Nope. The injector dynamic injectors are AMAZING. Don't let anyone else tell you differently. They are rated for any fuel you can toss at them, and the MAIN reason I Bought them was for the idle quality.


    think about it. I have 2000cc injectors at 35psi pushing a .2 millisecond injector pulse at idle.
    Rochesters can't do that.
    stock injectors can do that, but those are 18-23 lb injectors.... I'm 198lbs.
    the adjustability of them is amazing. There is a video of a stock Acura integra with ID2000's at idle and it runs like stock.

    i personally run about 850rpm at idle on my S52, mainly because my cams do not have enough overlap to compensate for the low air flow.


    Talk to tony @T1race development. He is a straight shooter, and will tell you the truth and nothing but.
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  21. #46
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    Ah I didn't realize the S65 was not DI.

    I also have ID2000 injectors. At first I could not understand why they cost double what FIC2150 injectors cost. As soon as the car started up I knew why. I have pretty huge cams and even with those, on e85 and with 2000cc injectors my car idles perfectly and I was able to tune the idle myself.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  22. #47
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    Injector Dynamics are amazing injectors!
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  23. #48
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    you shouldn't have issues with E85 in just about any brand new fuel line

    the problem with E85 and old fuel lines, is due to the hygroscopic nature of ethanol, it absorbs water from the cracked old fuel lines, and 'dry rot's' them, causing them to split apart

    this goes for any rubber component.

    it also shouldn't cause filter issues, especially not from 'gunk' in your tank

    unless you're running $#@! fuel, or have run $#@! fuel and it magically hasn't sucked up the gunk when the fuel pump and filter is at the bottom of the engine anyway (the only time i've seen gunked up fuel tanks is when a batch of bad fuel has been pumped and the car won't run anyway)

    ethanol isn't any more harsh in general than petrol (which itself is ridiculously corrosive to lots of things)

    literally the only things to watch out for with ethanol in a fuel system with good condition rubber components ('ethanol rated' or not, which for the most part is moot), is the fact it's so hygroscopic, you have to absolutely make sure that it won't absorb too much water, and that the rubber components stay in good condition/dry/clean so the ethanol doesn't THEN destroy them.

    ED: oh and obviously the mechanical components.. pumps/injectors etc. arent over-stressed

    that has nothing to do with the chemical properties of ethanol, just that they are running at a MUCH higher duty cycle/flow rate, so being pushed harder and wearing.

    so yes, you want to change to 'ethanol compatible' hosing etc. to prevent any potential issues years later, but it's not a problem STARTED by ethanol, but it's most certainly a problem ENDED with ethanol...

    as for the crud in the fuel tank.. again, i'm really curious what it could possibly be, or how it's not already sucked up by the pump in the first place?

    petrol makes just as harsh a cleaner as ethanol, if not harsher... you can stick your hand in ethanol and not get too $#@!ed up, but try sticking your hand in petrol...? you'll get burns... really bad burns.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 06-28-2013 at 02:40 AM.
    boop

  24. #49
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    What about lower percentages of ethanol, such as e33? With countries like Brazil having e25 in their standard fuel, one would think that BMWs should be capable of lower percentages (<50%)?

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Moodist Click here to enlarge
    What about lower percentages of ethanol, such as e33? With countries like Brazil having e25 in their standard fuel, one would think that BMWs should be capable of lower percentages (<50%)?
    You'd think so as this is logical...

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