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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Obama is shrugging Mitt off like he already knows he has this in the bag.
    On one hand I agree with that, it seemed as though Obama was bored and or feeling Romney is not worth the time. On the other Romney was well spoken last night, still light on specifics other than taking out my beloved Sesame Street LOL. Romney got that off last night, lets see if people see thru the performance and look for details. Obama hit him on the $5 Trillion issue and Romney while saying he didnt want that he also did not say what he did want or what it would cost. Polls by next week will tell the tale.
    We stay swingin...
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    Have it recorded and will watch at some point. Obama is a total bull$#@! artist; but nowhere near as good as Clinton. I think Mitt watches too much Fox News.

    Let the intellectual pillow fight begin!

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    just curious, did anyone else in here, thats in "Middle America" not get the "about" $3k in tax cuts Obama said we got? I sure didnt..does that make him a liar?

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    Mitt raped Obamy lol I watched it
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    Can Ron Paul just shoot those 2 $#@!s in the head?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    On one hand I agree with that, it seemed as though Obama was bored and or feeling Romney is not worth the time. On the other Romney was well spoken last night, still light on specifics other than taking out my beloved Sesame Street LOL. Romney got that off last night, lets see if people see thru the performance and look for details. Obama hit him on the $5 Trillion issue and Romney while saying he didnt want that he also did not say what he did want or what it would cost. Polls by next week will tell the tale.
    I want to see 5 trillion cut from the deficit but is it true Romney wants to add 2 trillion in military spending? If so, wtf?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I want to see 5 trillion cut from the deficit but is it true Romney wants to add 2 trillion in military spending? If so, wtf?
    Like Romney highlighted, it'll be possible by:

    Lowering Overall Fed Govt spending (can add $2 trillion to military spending while still cutting unnecessary, ineffective programs) --> Having more employed Americans (combined with less outsourced jobs) --> More people paying taxes & circulating money in the US economy --> Slowly payoff the deficit with increased tax revenue

    **The theory of more employed Americans can make it possible (and remain fiscally responsible) to reduce taxes is sometimes referred to as "growing the pie", something Liberal Fiscal Ideology refuses to accept.


    I really liked that Romney quoted Biden & how the "middle class has been buried the past 4 years" during the tax segment(?). For me the biggest thing that stood out was that Mitt Romney always said "Middle Income Americans" while Obama always responded with "Middle Class Americans". So who's perpetuating class warfare in the US?


    PS -- Can anyone describe to me who or what makes the Middle Class?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Lowering Overall Fed Govt spending (can add $2 trillion to military spending while still cutting unnecessary, ineffective programs) --> Having more employed Americans (combined with less outsourced jobs) --> More people paying taxes & circulating money in the US economy --> Slowly payoff the deficit with increased tax revenue
    That's counting on money that isn't there under the assumption he created more jobs. No thanks, cut spending THEN spend money you have. No more military increases, for $#@!s sake, the military is gigantic.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    PS -- Can anyone describe to me who or what makes the Middle Class?
    Anyone with less money than Romney.
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    Hes a business man, its all about efficiency.. lots can happen when you efficently run something. Military is huge, but youd be suprised how inefficiently money is spent.. take a look at USMC VS Airforce for example. just in basic allowances..

    then lets talk about combat pay for areas that so far out the range of combat its almost laughable if it werent true.

    you also take it as an immidiate reversal, and we know nothing happens instantly

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Hes a business man, its all about efficiency.. lots can happen when you efficently run something. Military is huge, but youd be suprised how inefficiently money is spent.. take a look at USMC VS Airforce for example. just in basic allowances..
    Who cares if he is a business man you don't spend money you don't have. Expanding the military is not what we need, it needs to contract.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    you also take it as an immidiate reversal, and we know nothing happens instantly
    Really? How much time does it take to march the $#@! out of Iraq and Afghanistan? $#@! those $#@!holes, bring the guys home.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Who cares if he is a business man you don't spend money you don't have. Expanding the military is not what we need, it needs to contract.



    Really? How much time does it take to march the $#@! out of Iraq and Afghanistan? $#@! those $#@!holes, bring the guys home.

    once again, you act as if its immidiate.
    if you reallocate money from an inefficient program, to another program, there is no total change is there?

    have you been to iraq or afghan? do you know what it takes to move something that big? The military is a big green machine, but its runs like a company, a dictator ran company, but the same.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    once again, you act as if its immidiate.
    The immediate problem is current military spending.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    have you been to iraq or afghan? do you know what it takes to move something that big? The military is a big green machine, but its runs like a company, a dictator ran company, but the same.
    Is it cheaper to stay there or leave? Time to get out, ASAP.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The immediate problem is current military spending.



    Is it cheaper to stay there or leave? Time to get out, ASAP.
    If you look at the numbers, sometimes it's cheaper to stay then leave. Just like a car manufacturer will put holes in something that doesnt need it, because the original design needed the holes but the new one doesnt, so keeping the holes there although costing manufacturers money is cheaper then revising all the tooling and drawings and processes etc... You get the point, I am not saying that is the case with the military in Iraq and Afghan, but saying 'just leave' isn't as cheap and easy as you'd think. Think about what that would entail.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The immediate problem is current military spending.
    The immediate problem is entitlements. At least military spending yields something that benefits everyone (national security)


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is it cheaper to stay there or leave? Time to get out, ASAP.
    Don't worry, the Obama Administration has already set a "withdrawal" date. But let's just ignore the Embassy massacre & give Obama a free pass since he failed to increase security when there was known threat weeks before 9/11. You really don't understand how many channels a drastic change to govt. spending/activities needs to go through before it gets the final approval (not including actual implementation time lapse)
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    ^ I'm sure there is lots of red tape to push through just to get a decision in place, government is SO SLOW.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    ^ I'm sure there is lots of red tape to push through just to get a decision in place, government is SO SLOW.
    Bureaucracy at it's finest -- That's why I don't believe in expanding govt, just make it efficient & cost as a little as possible. It'd be nice to see us run a surplus again & not owe China trillions of dollars.
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    I wish there was some way, that people could be involved in the government locally.. like a government, but broken down into smaller area's..

    Marked by some sort of boundaries, where people can say, I want xyz, so with in this area, we will do this. Over there, outside of this area, those people like to do xr and q. your welcome to live over there...

    I feel like if the government that controls what i do,and aspects that directly pertain to me and my family, were closer, and i could go and attend the meetings that happen around me, it would be much easier and more efficient. basically have different "states" of governement, if you will.. If only there was a way..

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    5 Trillion is a massive number and should be taken seriously... Its one thing to say lets cut it, I love the idea. Its another thing to have a plan with details cause again I love that. Its another to say I wanna cut $5T and have little specifics and when pressed say I dont want to pigeon hole myself with specifics. Beyond that I say again the person in the office doesnt matter if the house block everything and/or wont compromise.

    I still cant see how the GOP can call him a failure when they wouldnt allow anything to really pass the houses. But I will say the Romney did himself some good and bought some time. Whoever makes the next strong move and holds it could very well win the race...
    We stay swingin...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    If you look at the numbers, sometimes it's cheaper to stay then leave. Just like a car manufacturer will put holes in something that doesnt need it, because the original design needed the holes but the new one doesnt, so keeping the holes there although costing manufacturers money is cheaper then revising all the tooling and drawings and processes etc... You get the point, I am not saying that is the case with the military in Iraq and Afghan, but saying 'just leave' isn't as cheap and easy as you'd think. Think about what that would entail.
    Please, it isn't cheaper to keep our military nation building in the Middle East.

    It's simple, leave. We don't need to be building roads, bridges, hospitals, etc. We have our own problems.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    5 Trillion is a massive number and should be taken seriously... Its one thing to say lets cut it, I love the idea. Its another thing to have a plan with details cause again I love that. Its another to say I wanna cut $5T and have little specifics and when pressed say I dont want to pigeon hole myself with specifics. Beyond that I say again the person in the office doesnt matter if the house block everything and/or wont compromise.

    I still cant see how the GOP can call him a failure when they wouldnt allow anything to really pass the houses. But I will say the Romney did himself some good and bought some time. Whoever makes the next strong move and holds it could very well win the race...
    I was curious about your take on the events, probably more so than my other friends who support different people than I

    General thought:

    I think of it like this. Romeny, wealthy beyond any of us. What reason does he have to do harm to the country, instead of solidify what he claims to be able to do, and make a mark as a great president, referenced throughout history? Said it many times, economics is only one part of choice, so, keeping with that..

    now that we have more insight on what he actually wants to do (not the fine print, but overall,) and it sounds very sound in Do we like the way he presented it, clear concise, logical and possible?

    Given that he does in fact have a history of being successful, economically, its tough to argue.

    A lot of his time was eaten up by repeatedly correcting statements made by the other guy. SO is it plausible, that those statements were choicely let to be overexxagerated up until the debate time? If it was planned, it was and is very smart, strategically. results speak for themselves

    Results, like he said, in his State that have been successful.. Results.. thats what we all want to hear debated, factual results

    Now, Given that his opponent, has had, Ill say less than stellar results, which one could have expected given his history prior to 4 years ago.

    who do you think can do the better, BETTER job with the next 4 years?

    And thats just economics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The immediate problem is entitlements. At least military spending yields something that benefits everyone (national security)
    Military spending is larger than entitlements. They are both huge problems.

    Military spending yields benefits? Wow they brainwashed you well that we for some reason need to spend more than every other country in the world combined on our military.

    Space exploration would yield more benefits than trying to bring democracy to a Middle East that doesn't want it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Don't worry, the Obama Administration has already set a "withdrawal" date. But let's just ignore the Embassy massacre
    You want to take over Libya too? And if there is a murder at another embassy, take that over too? They will just keep doing targeted strikes to exhaust our budget don't you get it?

    If you want to punish them cut off all the foreign aid, why give it to countries that murder Americans? We are giving Pakistan aid for $#@!s sake and they imprisoned the guy who told us where Bin Laden was, some friends.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    ou really don't understand how many channels a drastic change to govt. spending/activities needs to go through before it gets the final approval
    It's simple, stop spending. It's going to happen whether people want it or not when the dollar collapses so if you want to keep this absurd charade going by all means. It is just postponing the inevitable.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I was curious about your take on the events, probably more so than my other friends who support different people than I

    General thought:

    I think of it like this. Romeny, wealthy beyond any of us. What reason does he have to do harm to the country, instead of solidify what he claims to be able to do, and make a mark as a great president, referenced throughout history? Said it many times, economics is only one part of choice, so, keeping with that..

    now that we have more insight on what he actually wants to do (not the fine print, but overall,) and it sounds very sound in Do we like the way he presented it, clear concise, logical and possible?

    Given that he does in fact have a history of being successful, economically, its tough to argue.

    A lot of his time was eaten up by repeatedly correcting statements made by the other guy. SO is it plausible, that those statements were choicely let to be overexxagerated up until the debate time? If it was planned, it was and is very smart, strategically. results speak for themselves

    Results, like he said, in his State that have been successful.. Results.. thats what we all want to hear debated, factual results

    Now, Given that his opponent, has had, Ill say less than stellar results, which one could have expected given his history prior to 4 years ago.

    who do you think can do the better, BETTER job with the next 4 years?

    And thats just economics
    My perspective is simple... I dont think Obama nor Romney want to harm the country, however the GOP has in my view placed their party ahead of the country with their actions. The last couple of years has been an embarassment of governing on their part they need to be accountable for that.

    As for Romney, details matter and facts matter. People need to keep in mind this is no more than a proposal on his end one that lacks the type of detail required to make an educated decision. Would you hire this man for the job to turnaround your business without more details. Its the same concept in mind, sure he has a nice resume in some regards. But does that make him ideal for the job all while being less than specific. Thats a serious point in my mind.

    As for repeatedly defending statements I will say this. Obama states and has been fact checked by various sources as saying Romney is looking at the $7 trillion in spending. Lets assume Obama is a bold face liar, Romney still has not said what the number is. Its conspicuously absent from his statement. That troubles me, he didnt retort by saying I am not raising $7T instead I will be doing this?

    Running a state is different than running a country and yes he had good results.Its not unreasonable to say he couldnt do so on a national level. The question is again how, more so what specifics. Romney effectively told people he was cooking dinner and never said what was for dinner. When pressed he said well we have a variety of meats & poultry to choose from but never said what. To me he fed a little detail and people made it sound major. Again thats just me...

    Now had Obama had his initiatives passed and they failed or yielded lackluster results. Then we could hang that around his neck and hold him on it. But they didnt quite do that, by and large they blocked his actions. One could easily and rightly hold the GOP to equal account as their gridlock on many issues held the economy and each of us hostage financially. Simply put a bad idea implemented and failed. Is different than not doing anything at all.

    The next 4yrs will see progress no matter who hits the Oval Office. America is tired of the BS with the politics but there are hardcore folks on both sides who have totally drunk the Kool Aid and believe they are right. That creates a lack of compromise and we need compromise in the worst way.

    Lastly this just my little personal view.

    Romney is a MODERATE not a conservative, he is making his way back to it after getting the nomination. The outrage that will ensue should he win and go center will be massive and the GOP will want to oust their own guy. They will put on a happy face as they were so blinded by a desire to rid themselves of Obama. That will have let a Fox into the Hen House and that wont go over well.
    We stay swingin...
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    Not a comment on policy for either candidate, but watching this debate makes me think Romney is pushy, impatient, and willing to step on little guys to get his point across. Poor Lehrer.

    The weight of providing proof was always on Romney. He had to prove to most people, including a lot of people in his own party that he was fit to be president. He debated well enough to call this a race now. But imo, this is no slam dunk.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jdub679 Click here to enlarge
    He had to prove to most people, including a lot of people in his own party that he was fit to be president.
    Has Obama proved this yet?
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    He has not. But I feel the burden of proof needs to be on the contender.
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