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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No, it's the 335 rival. The 335i was ahead of the S4 for a long time now all of a sudden because the S4 performs better it isn't the competition? Just because Audi uses an "S" doesn't flip the world upside down.

    What is the 335 competitor then? It is clearly the S4, Insideline got it right.
    Go drive an S4, Sticky. Just because the 335i used to be faster and now it isn't doesn't change anything. They may fill a very similar spot in the model lineup of the two companies but the 335i is just a 328i with more power while the S4 feels completely different from an A4. I just drove the 2013 S4 a few days ago, what I'm saying here is supposed to be a very big complement to Audi and a plea for BMW to differentiate the 335i and 328i more by giving the 335i better handling and better seats than the base model instead of just putting in a bigger engine.

    The fact is, these two companies use different strategies with BMW having a basic car with two power levels and then an M version that is radically different (with 80% of its parts changed) and Audi having three distinct sportiness levels for its cars. When you have some free time, just go test drive an F30 335i and a B8 S4 and you'll see immediately what I'm talking about.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    Go drive an S4, Sticky. Just because the 335i used to be faster and now it isn't doesn't change anything.
    The S4 is the better car in the same class. What is the S4 supposed to be compared to? Clearly not the M3. Clearly not the C63. The 335 is its match mid-lineup. Just because BMW doesn't throw the letter M in there doesn't mean the S4 is in some different class, it isn't. Would it help you guys if Audi called it something else?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    It has nothing to do with the name, my point is the S4 is a mid tier car (A4, S4, RS4) while BMW only has two tiers. The 328i and 335i are honestly the exact same thing except the 335i is like .4 seconds quicker to 60. The interior and handling are the exact same and this simply isn't the case with Audi.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    It has nothing to do with the name, my point is the S4 is a mid tier car (A4, S4, RS4) while BMW only has two tiers. The 328i and 335i are honestly the exact same thing except the 335i is like .4 seconds quicker to 60. The interior and handling are the exact same and this simply isn't the case with Audi.
    No BMW has 3 tiers. 328, 335, and M3. By your argument the S4 is basically an A4 except it's quicker to 60. The interior is the same and the handling a little sportier. When the sport package or whatever comes out it will be the exact same thing Audi has setup just like it has been for a while.

  5. #55
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    ^ Admit it, they are not direct rivals.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    ^ Admit it, they are not direct rivals.
    Actually they are.

    Please tell me what the s4's direct competition is?

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Actually they are.

    Please tell me what the s4's direct competition is?
    Something that sits between 335i/C350 and M3/C63.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Actually they are.

    Please tell me what the s4's direct competition is?
    The future M335i: a 335i with some cosmetic mods, M badges here and there, 20hp bump. And that's it. Basically another failure unless it gets some serious performance/handling overhaul, which I doubt Click here to enlarge

    Taking the sportiness out of BMWs is like tearing the heart out of these cars. I don't want to drive something that feels like a Mercedes! I want to feel connected to the road, enjoy the ride and not feel insulated like hovering over the street. WTF BMW?

    I can only HOPE the 4 series will be VERY different! If not, what alternatives are left? The future M3 at a price tag of 100k EUR? No thanks... For that kind of money I'll buy a Porsche!
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
    Mods: Performance Seats / Performance Exhaust / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / M3 Mirrors / Forge FMIC / QUAIFE LSD / Ohlins R&T / M3 Suspension Parts / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR catted DP / COBB Pro-Tune
    Next: GTS Wing

  9. #59
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    Was about to say wouldn't the 335IS somewhat count?

    a M335i? Is that what they are going to call the M-Sport editions from now on?
    2010 335i Coupe Le Mans Blue
    *JB4 Powered*

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    The future M335i: a 335i with some cosmetic mods, M badges here and there, 20hp bump. And that's it. Basically another failure unless it gets some serious performance/handling overhaul, which I doubt Click here to enlarge

    Taking the sportiness out of BMWs is like tearing the heart out of these cars. I don't want to drive something that feels like a Mercedes! I want to feel connected to the road, enjoy the ride and not feel insulated like hovering over the street. WTF BMW?

    I can only HOPE the 4 series will be VERY different! If not, what alternatives are left? The future M3 at a price tag of 100k EUR? No thanks... For that kind of money I'll buy a Porsche!
    A future car? Based on the 335? Well until this future vehicle arrives it seems the 335i is and has been the direct competitor to the s4 for some time now.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Something that sits between 335i/C350 and M3/C63.
    Like the 335is?

    Forgetting the b6 and b7 s4's were behind? Now that Audi jumped ahead it's unfair? What a joke.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Like the 335is?

    Forgetting the b6 and b7 s4's were behind? Now that Audi jumped ahead it's unfair? What a joke.
    they were behind of what? 330i? I don't think so at all man. S4 with it's V8 wasn't 330i's rival, as 335i and S4 aren't rivals period.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    A future car? Based on the 335? Well until this future vehicle arrives it seems the 335i is and has been the direct competitor to the s4 for some time now.
    On the E9x platform, yes. But now the F30 335i is no longer a sportscar, by a long shot. And with BMW eager to dilute the ///M brand, I'm 100% sure there will be a M335i to close the gap to the M3. With lots of nifty M Performance parts like carbon fiber spoilers, carbon fiber interior trim, tri-stitched steering wheel, tri-stitched shift boot... And handling like a boat!
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
    Mods: Performance Seats / Performance Exhaust / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / M3 Mirrors / Forge FMIC / QUAIFE LSD / Ohlins R&T / M3 Suspension Parts / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR catted DP / COBB Pro-Tune
    Next: GTS Wing

  14. #64
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    M335i is going to be exactly like 335is. a 335i with some improvements here and there. They are just playing with the names.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    they were behind of what? 330i? I don't think so at all man. S4 with it's V8 wasn't 330i's rival, as 335i and S4 aren't rivals period.
    The 335 not 330. The S4 and 335 are direct rivals I don't really understand what you don't get. Your theory is based on a car that doesn't even exist being the S4's rival. As of today, right now, the 335 is the S4's direct competition. Both forced induction 6 cylinders in the same price range positioned mid-range in their own model lineup.

    Crazy Insideline for making this comparison which is made basically everywhere and by everyone. Seems you are the only one who doesn't get it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    On the E9x platform, yes. But now the F30 335i is no longer a sportscar, by a long shot. And with BMW eager to dilute the ///M brand, I'm 100% sure there will be a M335i to close the gap to the M3. With lots of nifty M Performance parts like carbon fiber spoilers, carbon fiber interior trim, tri-stitched steering wheel, tri-stitched shift boot... And handling like a boat!
    The E9X was a sportscar but the F30 is not? Interesting.

    There will be some M sport garbage likely for the 335i but it will amount to packages that will be available for the 335i as options. When has the 3 Series not had a sport package option? The F30 just came out.

    None of this changes the fact the 335i and S4 are each others direct competition. The fact anyone thinks otherwise I find hilarious.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    M335i is going to be exactly like 335is. a 335i with some improvements here and there. They are just playing with the names.
    Oh but that there is an "S" in S4 throws everything off apparently.

    Maybe if Audi called it the A4 3.0 TFSI you guys would start saying it's a no-brainer.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Oh but that there is an "S" in S4 throws everything off apparently.

    Maybe if Audi called it the A4 3.0 TFSI you guys would start saying it's a no-brainer.
    No, if they make a 3.0 TFSI version of A4 2.0, then it's 335i's rival.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The 335 not 330. The S4 and 335 are direct rivals I don't really understand what you don't get. Your theory is based on a car that doesn't even exist being the S4's rival. As of today, right now, the 335 is the S4's direct competition. Both forced induction 6 cylinders in the same price range positioned mid-range in their own model lineup.

    Crazy Insideline for making this comparison which is made basically everywhere and by everyone. Seems you are the only one who doesn't get it.
    The S4 V8 wasn't 335i's rival. No one ever compared these two cars. The only current gen S4/5 comparison with a BMW i recall was IL's M3 vs S5, not 335i.

    Audi doesn't have a rival for 335i, 550i and 650i GC, period. They have S4, S6 and S7 but they are not 335i and 550i and 650i rival. If they make a V8 version of normal A6, it will be 550i's rival. But they don't, so S6 isn't 550i's rival. Same is true for S4 and S7.

    Let's make it easier:
    What's a 335i? It's a 316d/320i with a 3.0L turbocharged engine.
    What's a S4? Is it a 3.0L superchraged engined regular A4? No!

    IL compared M3 to S5 as well. Does this make S5, M3's rival? No.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    No, if they make a 3.0 TFSI version of A4 2.0, then it's 335i's rival.
    They do, it's called an S4. So there you go, it's the 335i's rival.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    The S4 V8 wasn't 335i's rival. No one ever compared these two cars.
    Nobody?

    The S4 has been the 335i's rival for some time. Seems everyone is comparing them:

    http://www.insideline.com/audi/s4/20...-bmw-335i.html
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/vi...door-firepower
    http://www.germancarforum.com/commun...-cc-3-6.44144/
    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

    The V8 was compared to the 335i, sorry to burst your bubble. Go read old magazines I don't even feel like looking it up right now. You seem to be the only person on the planet who doesn't get it.

    The S5 clearly is positioned closer to the 335i than the M3, duh. The RS5 is the natural comparison there but they likely compared the S5 to the M5 due to the unavailability of the RS5 at the time of the comparison just like what happened with the S6 being compared to the M5 recently.

  20. #70
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    I was talking about S4 V8 and i mentioned that and i recall no comparison against 335i. You know why? Because at that moment Audi had A4 3.2 V6.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I was talking about S4 V8 and i mentioned that and i recall no comparison against 335i. You know why? Because at that moment Audi had A4 3.2 V6.
    The B6 and B7 S4's had V8's and were compared to the 335i, I have no idea what you are talking about.

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    An A4 with a 3.0TFSI is NOT the same as an S4! The S4 has better handling, braking, comes with performance tires and has a different interior with those epic Recaro seats. I keep writing this but it's as if you're reading right past it, the 335i and 328i are the SAME model. Look at BMW's European lineup if it helps, they have the 316i, 318i, 320i, 323i etc. are all of these different models? No. They're the same car with different engine choices.

    The performance levels of the cars is irrelevant so it doesn't matter if the 335i used to be faster than the old S4 and is now slower than the new one. You're right that the 335i is the closest thing to an S4 rival BMW has so it's fine for the magazines to compare them, but they aren't really the same type of car.

    If Audi put a 4 liter V8 into the standard A4 without touching anything else, would that be an M3 rival? Hell no.

    Audi used to have the A4 available with two engines, that 3.2 V6 A4 was the competitor to the BMW 330i and if they still offered such a model, that would be the 335i's competitor. Mercedes has a 335i competitor in the C350 but like BMW, Mercedes doesn't have a mid-tier car to truly compete with the S4. Since BMW is working on an M335i which DOES have upgraded handling and some other unique parts to fight the S4, I'd be pretty confident in thinking that Mercedes will also build a sort of half-AMG model.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    I keep writing this but it's as if you're reading right past it, the 335i and 328i are the SAME model.
    This does not change the fact the 335i is the direct competitor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    If Audi put a 4 liter V8 into the standard A4 without touching anything else, would that be an M3 rival? Hell no.
    It could be if it was positioned in the model hierarchy to be as the S4 is. The S4 is the mid range offering, the 335i is the mid range offering, it's pretty simple folks. This is likely why EVERY magazine, publication, etc., compares them.

    I guess it will help all of you if the 335i gets some interior options and a sport package. Maybe an is model to make it more clear for those who don't seem to get it.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    The performance levels of the cars is irrelevant
    If this was true the 2.0T would be an M3 rival. The performance level and position in the lineup are obviously the main factors.

  25. #75
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    The key thing I'm focusing on is the handling, an S4 has upgraded bushings, control arms, sway bars, etc. to change the way it feels from behind the wheel compared to an A4 and RS4. All I'm saying is in my eyes BMW doesn't have a mid-tier car at all. They just have the 3 series and then the M3.

    Just because there is no direct rival doesn't mean the closest thing becomes to rival, Porsche hasn't made a 991 Turbo yet but that doesn't make the Carrera 4S the GT-Rs rival does it?

    And performance numbers REALLY don't matter. At all. If they did, the Mustang Boss would be an M3 competitor (I drove one the other week...what a sack of $#@!). I remember when I had my E90 (which had Eibach suspension and a bunch of other minor mods) and another car in the family was a CLK 320 which was completely stock. That Benz had sticky Michelin tires on it and I had the standard runflat Bridgestones on my 328i. The CLK was much faster through twisty stuff, I did timed runs on this abandoned stretch of road near me and it would always be 3-4 seconds faster than my BMW even though its handling was actually awful. Handling is not a quantifiable thing, the faster car is not necessarily the one that handles better. Just because the Benz had stickier tires and could carry more speed didn't change anything.

    My point being this: just because the performance levels of the 335i and S4 are similar doesn't necessarily make them similar cars. When the M335i comes out and it has better steering, control arms, bushings and all the other important stuff to actually make it half of an M car (according to an interview I saw an M3 has 80% of its parts changed vs a 3 series and the M335i will have 30% of its parts changed) then we will finally have an S4/S5 competitor but until then the S4 sits alone in the marketplace.

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