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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    If a ferrari 458 makes 11.0 on 1/4 mile, then it might be tuned
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    A 458 tapping @ 11.0 is defentley a tuned ferrari!
    Actually, the Ferrari was not tuned, it was stock and on 20" stock tires. It ran 11.0 to 11.2 almost all night long. I know the owner personally so it wasn't just any stranger. His 458 did have some type of light-weight package from the factory though....which the other 458 did not have. The other 458 was running 11.3 to 11.5 all night long (and it also was stock). I think what helps them on the launch is that the engine rests on the rear axles providing a little better grip.

    Usually, an 11.0 second 1/4 mile run is not too difficult for a stock 458 Italia though. In good weather and the right launch, they should be able to hit flat 11s. Here are a couple of magazine tests showing very close results in the 1/4 mile as well: 11.0, 11.1, and 11.2

    Road and Track
    11.0 @ 128 mph --> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HVcKfw&cad=rja

    Motor Trend
    11.1 @ 125 mph --> http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

    Motor Trend
    11.3 @ 125.6 mph -->
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Actually, the Ferrari was not tuned, it was stock and on 20" stock tires. It ran 11.0 to 11.2 almost all night long. I know the owner personally so it wasn't just any stranger. His 458 did have some type of light-weight package from the factory though....which the other 458 did not have. The other 458 was running 11.3 to 11.5 all night long (and it also was stock). I think what helps them on the launch is that the engine rests on the rear axles providing a little better grip.

    Usually, an 11.0 second 1/4 mile run is not too difficult for a stock 458 Italia though. In good weather and the right launch, they should be able to hit flat 11s. Here are a couple of magazine tests showing very close results in the 1/4 mile as well: 11.0, 11.1, and 11.2

    Road and Track
    11.0 @ 128 mph --> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HVcKfw&cad=rja

    Motor Trend
    11.1 @ 125 mph --> http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

    Motor Trend
    11.3 @ 125.6 mph --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJdXx-2DTmg

    Thanks for the informative post. You have good evidence to back up your claim .I have never seen a 458 in person tap less than 11.8 arond here. Anyway, I do believe a 458 outpreforms the SLS in th 1/4 mile. However, the top end belongs to the gullwingClick here to enlarge. There is another Mbworld member (I started this thread @ mbworld on the SLS forums as well), who also raced a 458 italia and overtook it.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the informative post. You have good evidence to back up your claim .I have never seen a 458 in person tap less than 11.8 arond here. Anyway, I do believe a 458 outpreforms the SLS in th 1/4 mile. However, the top end belongs to the gullwingClick here to enlarge. There is another Mbworld member (I started this thread @ mbworld on the SLS forums as well), who also raced a 458 italia and overtook it.
    Please remember that I do NOT believe that all stock Ferrari 458 Italia's can "easily" hit 11.0 in the 1/4 mile. I know the standard 458 Italia will probably hit 11.3 to 11.5 fairly easily, and in good weather, maybe even 11.2. However, I do believe that there are a few stock ones that can "easily" hit 11.0 to 11.2; more specifically, the ones that come equipped with the super light rims and additional carbon fiber parts (do not know the name of those packages); I heard someone referring to them as the $50k packages :shocked:, and although it does not particularly add any power to the engine, it does shed some good weight which frees up a few ponies at the wheels.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    Anyway, I do believe a 458 outpreforms the SLS in th 1/4 mile. However, the top end belongs to the gullwingClick here to enlarge. There is another Mbworld member (I started this thread @ mbworld on the SLS forums as well), who also raced a 458 italia and overtook it.
    While I don't doubt your statement about the SLS overtaking the Ferrari at very high speeds (as I haven't seen much comparisons), it made me think why exactly does that happen? I'm not arguing but just looking for a good discussion. It seems to me that:

    1) Both engines make about the same amount of power (speaking in terms of US rating): 565 hp but one of them is 6.2L while the other is 4.5L
    2) The Ferrari is lighter: 458 Italia weights around 3300 lbs while the SLS weights 3600 lbs
    3) The Ferrari seems lower and more aerodynamic.
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    While I don't doubt your statement about the SLS overtaking the Ferrari at very high speeds (as I haven't seen much comparisons), it made me think why exactly does that happen? I'm not arguing but just looking for a good discussion. It seems to me that:

    1) Both engines make about the same amount of power (speaking in terms of US rating): 565 hp but one of them is 6.2L while the other is 4.5L
    2) The Ferrari is lighter: 458 Italia weights around 3300 lbs while the SLS weights 3600 lbs
    3) The Ferrari seems lower and more aerodynamic.
    SLS .36 drag coefficient Drag Coefficient

    458 .33 drag coefficient Drag Coefficient

    458 is slipperier but not buy much and it also has more downforce which hurts it at higher speeds. But that still doesn't explain the Jaguar videos previously posted.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    The Ferrari is lighter: 458 Italia weights around 3300 lbs while the SLS weights 3600 lbs
    .
    Moe
    . The ferrari weighs 3300lbs (Curb WEIGHT without Driver Included)
    the SLS 3600 (CURB WEIGHT EU) this means 3600 with a 75kg driver with all fluids and 90% fuel tank, spare tire and all neccessary fluids.

    The curb weight which Ferrari advertises, is not with a driver and no spare tire. If you add those two up the Ferrari's weight comes close to the SLS.
    Also the SLS has +100Nm of torque higher than the 458. Alot of people forget about torque when it comes to racing.

    It's torque that wins races

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    Moe
    . The ferrari weighs 3300lbs (Curb WEIGHT without Driver Included)
    the SLS 3600 (CURB WEIGHT EU) this means 3600 with a 75kg driver with all fluids and 90% fuel tank, spare tire and all neccessary fluids.
    Bro the 458 weighs 3300lbs DRY weight. I think tou meant dry weight. Ferrari advertise Dry weight, which doesnt include a 75KG (150lbs) driver, runing fluids, spare tire, and some basic controllers.

    Both cars weigh almost the same when scaled with runing fluids.


    SLS kills a 458 any time any day on a roll on race
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    Bro the 458 weighs 3300lbs DRY weight. I think tou meant dry weight. Ferrari advertise Dry weight, which doesnt include a 75KG (150lbs) driver, runing fluids, spare tire, and some basic controllers.

    Both cars weigh almost the same when scaled with runing fluids.


    SLS kills a 458 any time any day on a roll on race
    the dry weight is actually 3100 LBS (1390Kg) as advertised by Ferrari. Their curb weight is 3300 LBS (1495Kg), which does not comply with the Curb Weight of European Union (EU). Non-EU curb weight is the car's full wight with fluids and fuel. EU Curb Weight includes a 75Kg driver.

    So if we add 75Kg to the Ferrari's Non EU Curb Weight it becomes 1570Kg which is 50Kg away from the SLS. The 458 has 110Nm of torques less than the less. That 50Kg less weight will not help it at a street race from roll on.


    here is some explanation about curb weight and UK and US curb weight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight

    amazingly Ferrari just advertise dry weight. So you will have to figure out the curb weight in US standard or EU standard

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    Moe
    . The ferrari weighs 3300lbs (Curb WEIGHT without Driver Included)
    the SLS 3600 (CURB WEIGHT EU) this means 3600 with a 75kg driver with all fluids and 90% fuel tank, spare tire and all neccessary fluids.

    The curb weight which Ferrari advertises, is not with a driver and no spare tire. If you add those two up the Ferrari's weight comes close to the SLS.
    Also the SLS has +100Nm of torque higher than the 458. Alot of people forget about torque when it comes to racing.

    It's torque that wins races
    Torque does not win races. Just because carroll shelby (bless him) said this does not make this true. Total horsepower under the HP or torque curve divided by weight wins races.

    Torque is a force - and has no relationship to time or work. A 200lb man can stand on a 100 foot pole attached to a bolt and create 20,000 lb-ft of torque - that doesn't mean anything, because we are missing a component (how fast can he turn it?)... This is where horsepower comes in. Horsepower is derived from torque; torque without any speed means nothing.


    Think of a diesel car - like the 335d with tons of torque. It's not faster than a 335i simply because it has 125 more lb-ft of torque, right? No, it has less area underneath the power curve - and with similar weight, will lose in a race given enough distance.

    Here is a good article to read if you are interested: http://www.largiader.com/articles/torque.html

    Cheers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Torque does not win races. Just because carroll shelby (bless him) said this does not make this true. Total horsepower under the HP or torque curve divided by weight wins races.

    Torque is a force - and has no relationship to time or work. A 200lb man can stand on a 100 foot pole attached to a bolt and create 20,000 lb-ft of torque - that doesn't mean anything, because we are missing a component (how fast can he turn it?)... This is where horsepower comes in. Horsepower is derived from torque; torque without any speed means nothing.


    Think of a diesel car - like the 335d with tons of torque. It's not faster than a 335i simply because it has 125 more lb-ft of torque, right? No, it has less area underneath the power curve - and with similar weight, will lose in a race given enough distance.

    Here is a good article to read if you are interested: http://www.largiader.com/articles/torque.html

    Cheers.
    Great explanation above, repped.
    FINALLY someone who gets it. Torque gets you rolling but it's HP that wins races especially when they are from a roll when the rolling resistance is no longer a factor. I don't know why so many people don't understand this - especially these guys who are so big into roll on racing. When you are revving a car out to redline racing over a distance it's the HP that is most important as you wind through each gear. F1 cars are a perfect example of this. Very little torque yet they make lots of power at high rpms. I'm sure some of these "roll on racing" experts will tell us that a car with twice the torque of a F1 car will be faster in a straight line LOL.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    1) Both engines make about the same amount of power (speaking in terms of US rating): 565 hp but one of them is 6.2L while the other is 4.5L
    The 458 dyno's in the 450 wheel range whereas the SLS is in the upper 480's. So, the SLS has a little more power whereas the 458 is lighter.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    It's torque that wins races
    No it isn't.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Torque does not win races. Just because carroll shelby (bless him) said this does not make this true. Total horsepower under the HP or torque curve divided by weight wins races.

    Torque is a force - and has no relationship to time or work. A 200lb man can stand on a 100 foot pole attached to a bolt and create 20,000 lb-ft of torque - that doesn't mean anything, because we are missing a component (how fast can he turn it?)... This is where horsepower comes in. Horsepower is derived from torque; torque without any speed means nothing.


    Think of a diesel car - like the 335d with tons of torque. It's not faster than a 335i simply because it has 125 more lb-ft of torque, right? No, it has less area underneath the power curve - and with similar weight, will lose in a race given enough distance.

    Here is a good article to read if you are interested: http://www.largiader.com/articles/torque.html

    Cheers.
    I hope people read this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    However, I do believe that there are a few stock ones that can "easily" hit 11.0 to 11.2; more specifically, the ones that come equipped with the super light rims and additional carbon fiber parts (do not know the name of those packages); I heard someone referring to them as the $50k packages :shocked:
    Mo, i'm not aware of such package. What you are describing is Scuderia, but it will hit the market next year. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Great explanation above, repped.
    FINALLY someone who gets it. Torque gets you rolling but it's HP that wins races especially when they are from a roll when the rolling resistance is no longer a factor. I don't know why so many people don't understand this - especially these guys who are so big into roll on racing. When you are revving a car out to redline racing over a distance it's the HP that is most important as you wind through each gear. F1 cars are a perfect example of this. Very little torque yet they make lots of power at high rpms. I'm sure some of these "roll on racing" experts will tell us that a car with twice the torque of a F1 car will be faster in a straight line LOL.
    I can now see why are not respected by many in this forum!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No it isn't.
    oh really?

    Then how do you explain this article ? http://www.benzboost.com/content.php...-tuned-Ford-GT

    The Ford GT is more than 500 pounds lighter than the CLS63, how was the CLS63 keeping up side by side?

    Either what you said above is correct or this whole article is false

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    I can now see why are not respected by many in this forum!
    You negative rep me for quoting some physics. Thanks. This is why you will never be respected - and not just in a forum.

    On another note, just so you both are happy - the SLS is faster than everything. No Ferrari can touch it, but all diesel's can - especially freight trains.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    oh really?

    Then how do you explain this article ? http://www.benzboost.com/content.php...-tuned-Ford-GT

    The Ford GT is more than 500 pounds lighter than the CLS63, how was the CLS63 keeping up side by side?

    Either what you said above is correct or this whole article is false
    It can be explained with the fact that one car can have a higher PEAK horsepower, but still have a LOWER AVERAGE (total area underneath the power curve) than the other car. I haven't looked or read the article, but am hoping this makes some sense.

    Read the last paragraph/section (area under the curve) - it does a decent job summing it up: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...e/viewall.html

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    It can be explained with the fact that one car can have a higher PEAK horsepower, but still have a LOWER AVERAGE (total area underneath the power curve) than the other car. I haven't looked or read the article, but am hoping this makes some sense.

    Read the last paragraph/section (area under the curve) - it does a decent job summing it up: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...e/viewall.html
    yes but still the Ford GT will always have a higher power to weight ratio since it is lighter than the CLS63 by 500-600 pounds

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    You negative rep me for quoting some physics. Thanks. This is why you will never be respected - and not just in a forum.

    On another note, just so you both are happy - the SLS is faster than everything. No Ferrari can touch it, but all diesel's can - especially freight trains.

    I never negative repped you. I dont even have 100 rep points to do so!
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    You negative rep me for quoting some physics. Thanks. This is why you will never be respected - and not just in a forum.

    On another note, just so you both are happy - the SLS is faster than everything. No Ferrari can touch it, but all diesel's can - especially freight trains.
    A member with less than 100 posts can not give negative or positive reps

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    A member with less than 100 posts can not give negative or positive reps
    Not you - it was Jacob502. You can see who gives who negative and positve rep - it's not a mystery.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    I can now see why are not respected by many in this forum!
    LZH can be a little though to handle on some occasions, but non of those occasions are technical info discussing. What he and inlineS54 say is absolutely right. HP is what that wins races. If not then trucks would ripping off normal cars since they have better torque/weight ratio. But they can't, because they lack power. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Not you - it was Jacob502. You can see who gives who negative and positve rep - it's not a mystery.
    Sir,

    I did not give you any rep. I have less than 100 posts and less than 100 rep points. SLS AMG was only trying to explain this to you. The negative rep that you got couldn't be from me
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    No one is going to prove any physical phenomena by showing a video of two very different manmade machines racing eachother. The are geared different, have different aerodynamics, rolling resistances, powerbands, shift times, weights, average powers list goes on forever.

    Torque does not take time into account. If torque won races, then semi trailers would be raping corvettes and M3s.

    Average horsepower and gearing wins races. Torque is created by the engine at different speeds, if the car is geared just right, it can take advantage of the highest average horsepower available when shifting.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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