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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Benz280SL Click here to enlarge
    Oh come on, you cant possibly think braking late, late, late into turn 1 at Road America hauling the mail at 175 requires skill……..or keeping it pinned through the kink…….or drifting through 10 at Sonoma at 135 with the outside wall waiting to write you off. That takes skill? HA!
    Yeah, I just one hand it through that kind of stuff with someone an inch or so away from me. Takes no skill at all, anyone can do it. Click here to enlarge

  2. #52
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Listing European tuners selling canned tunes is not what I'm looking for.
    I'm going to chime in on this part more in general terms than in terms that are specific to the OP's main question (although it may be relative to the topic for future inquiries): I think getting a tune from someone not in one's geographical location should not be an automatic dismissal from someone needing a good tune. Practically speaking, someone in California getting a tune from a company in Florida is almost the same as getting a tune from a company in Germany. In fact, unless a customer happens to live in the exact same city as one tuner, they will have to deal with someone out of town. As long as the tune and good customer support is present, the distance between the tuner and customer should not pose an obstacle - especially with today's technology and fast communication schemes. Furthermore, I honestly don't think Brabus, MKB, PP-P, etc... are bad choices at all; I think they are just as good and I really don't think they sell "canned tunes". They will likely be more expensive than American-based companies, but a customer still has a choice Click here to enlarge
    2007 E63 P30
    Click here to enlarge

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    I think getting a tune from someone not in one's geographical location should not be an automatic dismissal from someone needing a good tune.
    It isn't an automatic dismissal just an important factor in the decision.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Furthermore, I honestly don't think Brabus, MKB, PP-P, etc... are bad choices at all; I think they are just as good and I really don't think they sell "canned tunes".
    PP-P is more akin to the approach US tuners take with their tunes.

    MKB, Brabus, has a one size fits all mentality and it comes with a hefty price tag attached to the name. Is Brabus going to do custom M156 tunes trying to get the quickest 1/4 mile time? Haven't seen it. That doesn't mean they don't have the skill but if you want the best performance for the money US tuners always win out. Not to mention all the top records are held by US tuners.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    top records are held by US tuners.
    No they arent!

    MHP held records when using both of Evotech/Techtec.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    No they arent!

    MHP held records when using both of Evotech/Techtec.
    Held...past tense. So who holds the records now ?

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Held...past tense. So who holds the records now ?
    Dont know. The tuner he is using. I dont know who he is. do you?

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    Dont know. The tuner he is using. I dont know who he is. do you?
    Nope, but MHP is a US based company therefore as Sticky said the top record holders are US based tuners. And we haven't even seen results from Jim or Earl yet...

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    No they arent!

    MHP held records when using both of Evotech/Techtec.
    They were using them but the point is these are US based entities.

    Jim or Earl's car should have the overall spot shortly.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    PP-P is more akin to the approach US tuners take with their tunes.
    They are an equally good option nonetheless, and from SLS AMG's results, Jacob502, and others, they seem to be doing great things on the M156 and M159. In fact, I believe the PP-P in-house C63 holds the record for the fastest C63 in 1 mile in Europe.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    MKB, Brabus, has a one size fits all mentality and it comes with a hefty price tag attached to the name. Is Brabus going to do custom M156 tunes trying to get the quickest 1/4 mile time? Haven't seen it. That doesn't mean they don't have the skill but if you want the best performance for the money US tuners always win out. Not to mention all the top records are held by US tuners.
    MKB is not one size fits all.... they will customize a tune for you if you request so. I'm not sure if you remember, but DadsC63 initially used MKB to tune his car, for he had them customize his tune at least 5 times as he continuously seek'ed quicker times; and indeed, he held the highest dyno and quickest 1/4 mile times for a while until he switched to MHP. Also back then, I too contacted MKB and asked if they could custom tune my car and they said they could.

    I agree with you (to some point) about Brabus... their USA office had told me (and this was years ago) that they would not customize my tune, but their German office was willing to do so. Yes they are very expensive, but they do provide quality tunes and should be a viable option for someone looking for a good tune.

    Evotech (apparently) also provides full 100% custom tunes here in USA via DynoComp, and although their name had been controversial over the years, according to hooleyboy and others, many people have been very happy with their tunes.
    2007 E63 P30
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  11. #61
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
    No they arent!

    MHP held records when using both of Evotech/Techtec.
    Despite popular belief, MHP never used EvoTech, they used TechTech through EuroTech (spelling maybe off). However, the tuner alone did not hold the records as the cars were running MHP hardware.
    2007 E63 P30
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Nope, but MHP is a US based company therefore as Sticky said the top record holders are US based tuners. And we haven't even seen results from Jim or Earl yet...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They were using them but the point is these are US based entities.

    Jim or Earl's car should have the overall spot shortly.
    Please remember though.... people in Europe are not into 1/4 mile racing as much as we do here in the U.S. As a result, not too many companies bother with 1/4 mile times, so it maybe a bit unfair to structure the comparison that way, as they may still prove to provide comparably potent tunes.
    2007 E63 P30
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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Please remember though.... people in Europe are not into 1/4 mile racing as much as we do here in the U.S. As a result, not too many companies bother with 1/4 mile times, so it maybe a bit unfair to structure the comparison that way, as they may still prove to provide comparably potent tunes.
    Very well put. The premise of the comparison is key. The US v Europe paradigm is very different. The 0-60 mentality in the US has yielded some impressive tunes for sure. Let no one doubt the innovation capability of US industry. Having said that, those tunes aren't something you'd see in a 24 hour at the Ring, for example. 800-900 HP out of an M156 is impressive……..but hugely inefficient in anything other than a straight line…..and thats even tough. The chassis platform required to make that HP usable on a road course would require something altogether different than the chassis that the engines were delivered on. So…..credit goes where credit is due. Make certain that comparisons are within context.

  14. #64
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    He was looking for a tune for power not for nurburgring laptimes.

  15. #65
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    I see. Would you explain to the audience what POWER is? Your comment would suggest that power is power is power. The previous poster made a great point. Thats it

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    Skip it.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Benz280SL Click here to enlarge
    I see. Would you explain to the audience what POWER is? Your comment would suggest that power is power is power. The previous poster made a great point. Thats it
    Power is clearly the Nurburgring laptimes you are bringing up which are very relevant to the TUNE he just purchased.

    Some of you lack common sense.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Please remember though.... people in Europe are not into 1/4 mile racing as much as we do here in the U.S. As a result, not too many companies bother with 1/4 mile times, so it maybe a bit unfair to structure the comparison that way, as they may still prove to provide comparably potent tunes.
    Then that would mean that people in Europe are either ignorant or they don't care about performance. Ignorant because it's common knowledge that dyno numbers (which European tuners rely heavily upon) are for the most part useless. And if they don't care about true performance numbers in the 1/4 mile, then what do they use as a reference when deciding which tuner to go with ? Marketing ? Youtube videos ? Bling ? I don't get it...There's only one way to show how good a tuner is, and it isn't dyno graphs - it's performance.

  19. #69
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Benz280SL Click here to enlarge
    Very well put. The premise of the comparison is key. The US v Europe paradigm is very different. The 0-60 mentality in the US has yielded some impressive tunes for sure. Let no one doubt the innovation capability of US industry. Having said that, those tunes aren't something you'd see in a 24 hour at the Ring, for example. 800-900 HP out of an M156 is impressive……..but hugely inefficient in anything other than a straight line…..and thats even tough. The chassis platform required to make that HP usable on a road course would require something altogether different than the chassis that the engines were delivered on. So…..credit goes where credit is due. Make certain that comparisons are within context.
    This paradigm that you refer to is obviously very evident and confusing - see my post above.
    But I think you are generalizing a bit when referring to a M156 with 800-900 hp being inefficient. If you are referring to a blown M156 then I would agree. But with the proper budget, I guarantee you I can build a normally aspirated, dry sumped M156 that spins to 11,000rpms with a $#@!load of cooling that will make 800whp and never suffer from any heat related issues or inefficiency.

  20. #70
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    All of this back and forth makes no sense to me. The obvious choice here is PowerChip.Click here to enlarge
    Current: C63 Coupe: Polar White/Classic Red, P31, H&R, Mode Carbon, RevoZport, Renn Motorsport
    SOLD: B8 S4 Sprint Blue Pearl, DSG, Stasis everything.
    SOLD Eurocharged C63: ARKYM, Forgestar, K&N, Revozport, Custom Rear Lip

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
    The obvious choice here is PowerChip.Click here to enlarge
    Sure, if you are a big fan of the Mercedes factory P31 tune.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sure, if you are a big fan of the Mercedes factory P31 tune.
    The funniest thing is when you look them up on urbandictionary.com lol
    Current: C63 Coupe: Polar White/Classic Red, P31, H&R, Mode Carbon, RevoZport, Renn Motorsport
    SOLD: B8 S4 Sprint Blue Pearl, DSG, Stasis everything.
    SOLD Eurocharged C63: ARKYM, Forgestar, K&N, Revozport, Custom Rear Lip

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Then that would mean that people in Europe are either ignorant or they don't care about performance. Ignorant because it's common knowledge that dyno numbers (which European tuners rely heavily upon) are for the most part useless. And if they don't care about true performance numbers in the 1/4 mile, then what do they use as a reference when deciding which tuner to go with ? Marketing ? Youtube videos ? Bling ? I don't get it...There's only one way to show how good a tuner is, and it isn't dyno graphs - it's performance.
    I agree with you regarding 1/4 mile times, I'm addicted to them too Click here to enlarge I just think that most people in Europe don't have as easy access to 1/4 mile tracks as we do here. As a result, they tend to judge performance by what's more readily available to them: high-speed rolling races or races from a dig on the street or races at a road course, etc... I've also seen groups who setup their own 1/4 mile marks and use consumer-type equipment (G-Tech, RL, etc...) to measure times and speed, but for the most part, it's all high-speed races for them.
    2007 E63 P30
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  24. #74
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    LZH…...Yes….I was referring to a FI vs NA motor. The "inefficiency" comment was aimed at overpowering the chassis configuration. The power band of the NA motor you refer to is more efficient in the road course applications.

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