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  1. #1
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    Please help Jon understand something guys

    Jon: 8:59 PM
    see the e55 have huge amounts of low end. thats why they are faster then a stock c63 even with less hp and taller gearing.

    Me 8:59 PM
    so explain to me how low end torque helps from a highway roll
    Me 8:59 PM
    please explain to me


    Jon: 8:59 PM
    from the get go


    Me: 8:59 PM
    who the $#@! does a highway roll south of 4k rpm?



    Is he not grasping the English language or does he seriously believe low end torque helps on a highway roll starting at 40-60 mph?

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    Your speaking of Jon there are many different dynamics associated with him,
    Click here to enlarge
    Drives: Basically a pretty bad ass f250 lifted with 24" wheels! Dpf delete 4" exhaust h&s tuner and intake..

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    Yes lowend trq helps from a roll. Huge amounts of lowend there is no waiting for rpms to build to get power.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    4 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Do you guys really communicate about this $#@! offline ???? LOL

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    Do you guys really communicate about this $#@! offline ???? LOL
    He's still at it! I asked him if rwhp at 6500 RPM helps from a dig and he said yes! What do I need to do?

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    I'm gonna put the to rest real fast. Jon, I own a trucking company, I have a fleet of semis that each make about 1000+ ft lbs of torque, that's about twice what your C63 makes, what would the outcome of a roll on race be between your car and one of my semis in a roll on?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I'm gonna put the to rest real fast. Jon, I own a trucking company, I have a fleet of semis that each make about 1000+ ft lbs of torque, that's about twice what your C63 makes, what would the outcome of a roll on race be between your car and one of my semis in a roll on?
    How much does the semis weight? lol
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Jon: 8:59 PM
    see the e55 have huge amounts of low end. thats why they are faster then a stock c63 even with less hp and taller gearing.

    Me 8:59 PM
    so explain to me how low end torque helps from a highway roll
    Me 8:59 PM
    please explain to me


    Jon: 8:59 PM
    from the get go


    Me: 8:59 PM
    who the $#@! does a highway roll south of 4k rpm?



    Is he not grasping the English language or does he seriously believe low end torque helps on a highway roll starting at 40-60 mph?
    Ok, yes, you are correct.

    Simple practical application, take an S2000 and say a Mercedes E320 Diesel. Diesel makes more torque, gets creamed from a roll.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonsC63AMG Click here to enlarge
    How much does the semis weight? lol
    My International 8600 day cabs(single screw) weighs 11,300 pounds and makes 1250 ft pound of torque and 350 hp. Your C63 weigh 4000 pound and makes 450 ft lb tq. So although my semi weigh nearly 3 times what your C63 does itr is also putting down 3 times as much torque so by using your skewed logic it should be a very close race between your C63 and my semi, right?

    ....well guess what, it wouldnt be a race, not even close.
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    All things being equal. The car with the most torque will pull on the high end also. If torque is higher in the rpms the car is being run at. As the vehicle speed increases the work or force to move that car increases. Rolling resistance and wind drag. If two cars have the same gearing and hp curves and one is making more torque in the usable window of operation then it will be faster in those conditions.
    I do tuning on a rally car with a restrictor. It is a turbo audi aan engine. I am constantly yelling at the owner driver to shift early. He wants to wind it up. It makes 322lb/ft of torque at 3500rpm. At 5250 it makes 240. Hp peaks at 245 at 4700. The thing pulls like a freight train between 3000-5-5500 rpm. So it is not that simple when you add things like different transmissions and power curves. But I would probably run a e55 lower in the rpm range than the c63 in any conditions.

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    Just to be a dick...what if you had two identical C63's(or whatever car u choose) both cars weighed the same,had EQUAL horsepower but one car had 50ft/lb more torque...who would win the roll race?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    Just to be a dick...what if you had two identical C63's(or whatever car u choose) both cars weighed the same,had EQUAL horsepower but one car had 50ft/lb more torque...who would win the roll race?
    It would depending on what gear they rolled out in and what speed they were traveling. Just to be fair it would be very difficult to get to identical C63 make equeal whp but with one making 50 more ft lbs tq, not impossible in theory but it would be difficult. That being said the advantage would go to the car with the high tq
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    Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking..two cars having very close peak hp but one having substantially more torque&depending on where in the rpm range they started would have the the car w more tq come out ahead..however there are other variables,for instance transmissions. A W211 E55 and a W211 E63 make the same HP but the E55 makes significantly more torque across the curve;I ran a bonestock W211 E55 from a roll several times and we were neck&neck the entire time..one car did not jump out on the other,nor did one pull the other at higher rpm's. I believe the 7sp trans helped since it kept the 63 in its tq curve better that the older 5sp would have. Had the 5sp trans been on the 63 then the 55 would have destroyed it
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    All things being equal. The car with the most torque will pull on the high end also. If torque is higher in the rpms the car is being run at. As the vehicle speed increases the work or force to move that car increases. Rolling resistance and wind drag. If two cars have the same gearing and hp curves and one is making more torque in the usable window of operation then it will be faster in those conditions.
    I do tuning on a rally car with a restrictor. It is a turbo audi aan engine. I am constantly yelling at the owner driver to shift early. He wants to wind it up. It makes 322lb/ft of torque at 3500rpm. At 5250 it makes 240. Hp peaks at 245 at 4700. The thing pulls like a freight train between 3000-5-5500 rpm. So it is not that simple when you add things like different transmissions and power curves. But I would probably run a e55 lower in the rpm range than the c63 in any conditions.
    Thanks for clearing this up.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking..two cars having very close peak hp but one having substantially more torque&depending on where in the rpm range they started would have the the car w more tq come out ahead..however there are other variables,for instance transmissions. A W211 E55 and a W211 E63 make the same HP but the E55 makes significantly more torque across the curve;I ran a bonestock W211 E55 from a roll several times and we were neck&neck the entire time..one car did not jump out on the other,nor did one pull the other at higher rpm's. I believe the 7sp trans helped since it kept the 63 in its tq curve better that the older 5sp would have. Had the 5sp trans been on the 63 then the 55 would have destroyed it
    Well you must had a strong e63. My friend with his w212 e63 stock ran a stock e55 and lost few cars from a roll. I also ran his e63 when my car was stock and we were dead even. BTW did you see the gearing in the e55s 5spd? Its very tall but still beats the e63,c63 stock for stock. Why? The lowend trq.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    Oh I also ran a w211 e63 and were dead even until 130. After this I started to pull. Not the case with the w212 e63.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok, yes, you are correct.

    Simple practical application, take an S2000 and say a Mercedes E320 Diesel. Diesel makes more torque, gets creamed from a roll.
    But the diesel has $#@! for hp. The argument here is when hp is not so far off.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    I ran the same E55 your friend Albert ran w his W212 63,we were dead even from a 40 roll til we each hit the rev limiter. The W212 aren't as quick as the W211 E63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    I ran the same E55 your friend Albert ran w his W212 63,we were dead even from a 40 roll til we each hit the rev limiter. The W212 aren't as quick as the W211 E63
    Rob, remember when all the E55 guys said the 63's would never compete with them LOL? I believe they called the 63's junk LOL.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    All things being equal. The car with the most torque will pull on the high end also. If torque is higher in the rpms the car is being run at. As the vehicle speed increases the work or force to move that car increases. Rolling resistance and wind drag. If two cars have the same gearing and hp curves and one is making more torque in the usable window of operation then it will be faster in those conditions.
    I do tuning on a rally car with a restrictor. It is a turbo audi aan engine. I am constantly yelling at the owner driver to shift early. He wants to wind it up. It makes 322lb/ft of torque at 3500rpm. At 5250 it makes 240. Hp peaks at 245 at 4700. The thing pulls like a freight train between 3000-5-5500 rpm. So it is not that simple when you add things like different transmissions and power curves. But I would probably run a e55 lower in the rpm range than the c63 in any conditions.
    What?? If they have the same hp curve and the same gearing they are making the same torque.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    Just to be a dick...what if you had two identical C63's(or whatever car u choose) both cars weighed the same,had EQUAL horsepower but one car had 50ft/lb more torque...who would win the roll race?
    They may make the same peak hp but if one makes 50ft-lbs more in the mid range it's also making more hp there.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    hey guys

    Listen carefully.

    The car that has the largest area under the power curve will win the race. Torque doesnt matter because it does not include the factor called TIME. Horsepower includes this factor called time, when we include this factor, we also need to integrate the area under the power curve to get acceleration vs. time. You would need to physically sit down and do the calculation on which car has a better area under it's power curve in every gear to be able to have a practical idea of who would win.

    It's not one number, I hate that $#@!.

    Every wonder a stock 200 hp VW GTI rapes a stock 200 hp honda civic SI? Because it has better average horsepower, aka more area under the power curve.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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    Thread jack with a stupid question which i have had in my mind since Jesus's birth:

    Which wins races? Horsepower or Torque?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Thread jack with a stupid question which i have had in my mind since Jesus's birth:

    Which wins races? Horsepower or Torque?
    Both, but you need torque to get of the line ,lets be honest torque is the best rush there is.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    Just to be a dick...what if you had two identical C63's(or whatever car u choose) both cars weighed the same,had EQUAL horsepower but one car had 50ft/lb more torque...who would win the roll race?
    I used my favorite bench racing tool to test this theory. I chose a 1998 Camaro Z28 5.7L V8 as the model, 305bhp/335lb-ft.

    Stock 40-100mph: 11.2 seconds

    305bhp/385lb-ft (+50tq): 10.8 seconds


    So that was interesting.

    I tried next with a 1994 McLaren F1, 618bhp/479lb-ft.

    Stock: 4.9 seconds
    +50lb-ft: 4.9 seconds

    ??!!

    1994 Toyota Supra Turbo, 320bhp/315lb-ft.

    Stock: 10.1
    +50tq: 9.8

    1986 MB 190E 2.3-16, 167bhp/162lb-ft

    Stock: 18.9
    +50tq: 18.3

    So there's definitely a trend of just 50lb-ft reducing roll times.

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