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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I think you missing the point. Cutting the cams is the most simplest part once you got the blank. Billet cutting is also simple but costs $$$$. Getting the profiles and lift right is another story but if you got blanks its easy to experiment.
    Hey if you say so but I'm sure we would all like to know who is doing the actual work...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Hey if you say so but I'm sure we would all like to know who is doing the actual work...
    I'll bet my house that it is NOT AndyClick here to enlarge

    More importantly, after Techtek dumped him, who would put in their money to support MHPClick here to enlarge

    PS: Yes I know his new SECRET tuner is much better than Techtek.

  3. #28
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    One interesting aspect would be to see how a cam upgrade would work with the boosted cars...

  4. #29
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    I don't really care who did all I know is if one person does it more follow suite. Somewhere someone will want to sell more and eventually pricing will reach realistic levels which will benefit us all. Won't be surprised if we hear another announcement this month even.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    One interesting aspect would be to see how a cam upgrade would work with the boosted cars...
    Generally lift plays a role. Duration not as much. Good cams lower boost pressure due to less head resistance. So when boost is matched to after cam level there is much more cfm hence big gains. I am hoping Weistec is working on this then I can get my heads back with some cams but they are Very secretive.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I don't really care who did all I know is if one person does it more follow suite. Somewhere someone will want to sell more and eventually pricing will reach realistic levels which will benefit us all. Won't be surprised if we hear another announcement this month even.
    Well if we had more info on where this comes from this development could take place at a quicker pace...

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Generally lift plays a role. Duration not as much. Good cams lower boost pressure due to less head resistance. So when boost is matched to after cam level there is much more cfm hence big gains. I am hoping Weistec is working on this then I can get my heads back with some cams but they are Very secretive.
    Don't know if they are working on cams for the SC's specifically or not but I'll ask next time I speak to them.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Generally lift plays a role. Duration not as much. Good cams lower boost pressure due to less head resistance. So when boost is matched to after cam level there is much more cfm hence big gains. I am hoping Weistec is working on this then I can get my heads back with some cams but they are Very secretive.

    George, as far as cam timing you are dead wrong my friend. Or should I say you have it back wards. Duration is EVERYTHING to a boosted engine, where as lift means not as much. Think of it this way, there is ALWAYS pressure on the intake valve, so that the moment it lifts, there is flow. How much it lifts doesn't matter as much as how long it is open. Since there is ALWAYS positive pressure, flow starts immediately, unlike NA motors, which rely on vacuum.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
    George, as far as cam timing you are dead wrong my friend. Or should I say you have it back wards. Duration is EVERYTHING to a boosted engine, where as lift means not as much. Think of it this way, there is ALWAYS pressure on the intake valve, so that the moment it lifts, there is flow. How much it lifts doesn't matter as much as how long it is open. Since there is ALWAYS positive pressure, flow starts immediately, unlike NA motors, which rely on vacuum.
    So how much can duration be increased and at what point is there no longer anything to be gained?

    What should be done with lift to compliment the duration?

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
    George, as far as cam timing you are dead wrong my friend. Or should I say you have it back wards. Duration is EVERYTHING to a boosted engine, where as lift means not as much. Think of it this way, there is ALWAYS pressure on the intake valve, so that the moment it lifts, there is flow. How much it lifts doesn't matter as much as how long it is open. Since there is ALWAYS positive pressure, flow starts immediately, unlike NA motors, which rely on vacuum.
    I don't think I am. If anything duration of the exhaust cam should be raised to expel the gasses. Intake lift only. You do not want to much overlap when you have forced induction. Getting the gasses the air in under pressure is not the problem but getting it out is. That's why forced induction cars have higher exhaust valve size ratio compared to na .

  11. #36
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    Blower cams are normally a lot like nitrous cams. George is right in his description. Short duration intake and high lift. Little to no overlap. Exhaust of course depends on if you have exhaust back pressure. If you have a very optimized exhuast system with timed pulses then a little overlap would be ok but not much because you will just blow through. If you have back pressure in the exhaust then any overlap will actually slow intake filling effectively cancelling out the boost pressure by how ever much psi exhaust pressure there is. So 5lbs exhaust and 10lbs intake and both valves are open you only have 5lbs positive pressure in the cylinder from the intake. You are wasting that intake duration. If you have a really good exhaust system then this of course not as much or a issue at all. It also has a lot to do with 4v vs 2v heads and rod stroke ratio etc. When the heads breath and lobe centers. And everyones opinion is different from what I can tell. I have talked to about half a dozen cam companies in the last few months and get a pretty significant feeling that you just keep trying until you find a profile that works for your app. All agree that any significant overlap is bad though.
    Just what I have been able to gather doing research and talking to people.

  12. #37
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    Okay, I should have been a little clearer with my explanation.


    Guys, I agree about the over lap on a FI motor, as it can ONLY dilute the boost pressure, aka bleed it out the exhaust side. And you do not need the scavenging effet on a FI motor as you do with a NA motor. However, in regards to lift I beg to differ. For the exhaust, YES Lots of duration, lots of lift as you need to get additional volume out. AKA 14.7 pounds of boost equals another atmosphere, so you now have double the original volume of spent gas to get out.

    Now in regards to the intake. Lift DOES NOT play a major role, as it would in a NA motor. WHY, you now have a pressurized system on the intake side, instead of a vacuum system like in a NA. As soon as the intake valve lifts off its seat, YOU WILL HAVE FLOW with a FI motor. This is NOT the case with a NA motor, where lift and duration play a MUCH larger role in order to fill the cylinder with vacuum pressure only.

  13. #38
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    Taken from a well known cam manufacturere guys:

    Supercharger tuning through cam selection and cam timing
    Intake cam:
    Because of the negative effects of overlap on a supercharger car’s performance, and especially in the case of high exhaust back pressure as is the case with most factory supercharged cars, we find that the optimal cam duration for the intake cam is typically 30-40* of duration less than a normally aspirated camshaft for the same peak power RPM. The decision to reduce the intake cam duration rather than split the duration reduction between the intake and exhaust cams, is that the intake cam will flow air under pressurized conditions (due to the addition of the supercharger and the increase in intake manifold pressure) and so at a reduced intake cam duration the engine will still be able to get it’s full share of intake air. At the same time, the high rpm effeciency improvement from the reduction of overlap will also boost power production with a more conservative cam.
    Last edited by mramg1; 02-16-2012 at 08:50 AM.

  14. #39
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    Same company, but talking exhaust:

    Exhaust cam:
    The exhaust cam duration and lift for a supercharged version of the motor should be similar to a nitrous camshaft, in the sense that the exhaust cams on nitrous specific builds have:
    1- Very healthy cam duration & very healthy cam lift to allow a severely elevated amount of exhaust gases to be able to effeciently exit the motor when the nitrous is activated and the horsepower (and thus the exhaust gasses) have both doubled in quantity.


    EXACTLY WHAT i SAID ABOVE

  15. #40
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    I agree with everything said there. But basically the intake is a short duration cam and the exhaust is still not going to be as long as a big n/a cam because lobe centers would get to far off. With a lobe center of 110-114 degrees you just cannot have much bigger than a 260 degree exhaust cam without overlap. Otherwise you would have to push your intake lobe center to far. And they are stating right in the quote that exhaust lift is also what they are going for. Intake lift I would assume that you would go as big as you can on the short duration so that the ramps are correct. Also 4v heads breath much better at low lift than 2v heads. So that has an effect on the ramp.

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    No sweat my friend. And YES 2v vs 4v would need to be taken into consideration as wellClick here to enlarge

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Cam class 101 thanks guys
    Pos reps all around

  18. #43
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    2 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    MHP is still in business?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mthis Click here to enlarge
    Cam class 101 thanks guys
    Pos reps all around
    I'm still soaking it all in.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm still soaking it all in.
    It is very interesting. What is even more interesting is that if the hold back all these years for MHP was the control of the variable valve timing there is power to be gained in that alone so no one can really say what is the benefit of the cams by themselves. I suspect their new version V4 must have had the cam timing done hence them being able to find more power on all the cars they updated. This brings the cars in line with the local to me cars that are hovering around 500whp.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    MHP is still in business?
    I guess that all depends on your definition of "in business". LOL
    Click here to enlarge

    1000+WHP WEISTEC 2008 CLK63 Black Series
    790WHP WEISTEC 2012 C63 Black Series
    725WHP WEISTEC 2014 SLS Black Series

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    500hp n/a?

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    500hp n/a?
    They already were at well over 500 hp NA...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They already were at well over 500 hp NA...
    Yip, there about.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They already were at well over 500 hp NA...
    Stickys right, 500rwhp is pretty much the norm these days for LT header, tune and some intake mods for M156 motors. Mine was making NA 511 with race fuel tune and cat delete and the above mentioned mods almost 4 years ago. I was the first one to break the 500whp. Barrier with a 63 and some peole cried foul and claimed bull$#@!, but that number has been achieved by several people and several tuners now days.
    Click here to enlarge

    1000+WHP WEISTEC 2008 CLK63 Black Series
    790WHP WEISTEC 2012 C63 Black Series
    725WHP WEISTEC 2014 SLS Black Series

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