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    Questions about LTH

    Just a few questions if you guys can assist me in information for my build:

    When the LTH companies such a MHP etc quote 1 7/8ths and 1 3/4 inch primary tubes are they talking about internal diameter or the total diameter of the pipe?

    If I do not do software immediately and am getting engine check light will this affect power readings for dyno purposes? If not then I do not have to go in and do a cat fix in the software whilst leaving the rest standard for testing purposes.

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    Don't run long tube headers without the appropriate tune.

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    +1 I agree with Even Money on this. Do not do any WOT runs on the street or dyno without a tune that is appropriate for a car with headers. It is not just to turn off the CEL but to ensure that the engine does not detonate and burn up any pistons or break any ring lands from going lean. Also make sure the dyno operator monitors and verifies your AFR at WOT is safe for the engine.

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    Definitely do the tune but his main question seems to be about the piping diameter.

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    I would assume those are measurements of the outer pipe diameter. Click here to enlarge
    Maybe somebody with a set of LTH's can measure the primaries with a digital caliper to know the exact diameter.

    As far as tunes go, I agree with the rest of the guys.
    You need a tune to adjust the AFR when running LTH's.

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    I am actually asking about the affects of the engi e check light caused by the lth without a tune.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by _AMG_ Click here to enlarge
    I would assume those are measurements of the outer pipe diameter.
    Is this the standard usually used to measure header diameters?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I am actually asking about the affects of the engi e check light caused by the lth without a tune.
    It annoys you and the car isn't running optimally?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It annoys you and the car isn't running optimally?
    No man, I am fitting them this week and want to test the yield of the LTH alone without a tune. So I am wondering if the engine check light is present will it affect the outcome. If I do a tune we will only know the gains tune and LTH. I should have just done a tune without LTH and then added LTH.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    No man, I am fitting them this week and want to test the yield of the LTH alone without a tune.
    Are you really going to run WOT with LTH and stock tune?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    No man, I am fitting them this week and want to test the yield of the LTH alone without a tune. So I am wondering if the engine check light is present will it affect the outcome. If I do a tune we will only know the gains tune and LTH. I should have just done a tune without LTH and then added LTH.
    The CEL won't hurt you unless it puts you in some kind of limp mode which I don't think it does. I did plenty of drag racing with my CEL on due to no cats.

    You won't maximize your gains without a tune but you should still see an improvement from the headers alone.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    The CEL is an emissions code stating that the voltage from the secondary O2s is not normal. The seconday O2s are simply there to monitor the cats. I have taken 1 off before and replaced it with a AFR gauge and drove around for the day. It produced a CEL but the car ran perfectly fine.

    I drove my car around for an hour (very gently) It didn't like running with the stock ECU and headers. I was told by OE tuning and MHP that the car will run lean if drove aggressive on the stock ECU.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is this the standard usually used to measure header diameters?
    Don't really know to be honest.
    Just an assumption.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Even Money Click here to enlarge
    Are you really going to run WOT with LTH and stock tune?
    I check the AFR and its high 12's. Must be because I am at altitude. I decided for dyno purposes to only open the throttle and do fueling suitable to LTH. Will leave timing stock for now.

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    How you tuning? BDM?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NS_C63 Click here to enlarge
    How you tuning? BDM?
    Flash kit is stuck in customs. If OB doesn't pull finger then BDM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Flash kit is stuck in customs. If OB doesn't pull finger then BDM.
    Sorry, clarification on BDM please?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sorry, clarification on BDM please?
    To date the M156 can only be flash for the first time by opening the ECU and using a BDM tool via some solder pads to read and write the software. These are the pads that people generally glue etc. Here is a pic to see what it looks like.
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    To date the M156 can only be flash for the first time by opening the ECU and using a BDM tool via some solder pads to read and write the software. These are the pads that people generally glue etc. Here is a pic to see what it looks like.
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    So after the first time then it can be flashed in different ways?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So after the first time then it can be flashed in different ways?
    Yip, my tuner has gotten a tool that apparently is suppose to avoid the whole opening the ECU process. Its stuck in customs at the moment so I do not know if I am willing to wait to see if it works or just pop the ECU and do it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Yip, my tuner has gotten a tool that apparently is suppose to avoid the whole opening the ECU process. Its stuck in customs at the moment so I do not know if I am willing to wait to see if it works or just pop the ECU and do it.
    Interesting. How does this tool allow you to avoid opening the ECU?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. How does this tool allow you to avoid opening the ECU?
    Unless someone obtained info of the MB RSA key (highly illegal) then they can do thru OBD w/o opening the ECU & start car ok. Otherwise, BDM opening ECU 1st it's needed, then apply patch so it can do thru open OBD.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. How does this tool allow you to avoid opening the ECU?
    As M54b25 said. It should use MB protocol to open ports to read write.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    Unless someone obtained info of the MB RSA key (highly illegal) then they can do thru OBD w/o opening the ECU & start car ok. Otherwise, BDM opening ECU 1st it's needed, then apply patch so it can do thru open OBD.
    Dont know what would be highly illegal about that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Dont know what would be highly illegal about that.
    Well, if you obtain the keys thru the back door of MB Gmbh = illegal. You can pretty much use those keys to calculate RSA flash thru OBD & start car w/o opening DME. Unless someone at Bosch/Siemens failed figure out how apply secure OBD read; then exploit it's used thru OBD. I.e: MSD80/81 DME.

    The legal way would be someone developing cryptography hardware to calculate those prime RSA key. But, time it's the issue. Unless someone at factory left those keys in a CD or DME =)

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