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Thread: Brabus twin turbo M156/M159 technical discussion + miscellaneous arguing

              
  1. #126
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Yes there is, the fact 8 should be used and on the SLS they did. If 6 was the right way why did they later go to 8?
    That's not a fact, it's an opinion, which is an important distinction.

    To answer your question: I don't know (and, I'd surmise, neither do you, or anyone else posting here) - but, if you're asking me to speculate... I'd guess that perhaps their M159 system runs more boost than their M156 system, and as such required 8 runners to achieve acceptable levels of boost response and volume? Or perhaps routing/packaging criteria dictated the different designs? I suppose only Brabus's project manager(s)/designer(s)/engineer(s) who worked on the two projects would know.

    Consider this, however... from the Brabus site (bolded areas, my emphasis) describing their M156 biturbo system from the ML63:

    The newly developed turbocharger system of the eight-cylinder engine represents high-tech par excellence. Custom exhaust manifolds were developed for both cylinder banks. These OEM-quality-cast manifolds feature integrated turbine housings and bypass valves

    Normally two right-turning turbochargers are used in twin-turbo V-engines. Because the inlet port of right-turning turbocharger is located on the right side, engineers would have to compromise on the optimal exhaust-gas routing on the right side of the engine. To avoid any compromises the BRABUS developers equip the B63 Biturbo system with left-turning turbocharger on the right side. This turbocharger was custom-developed for this engine and ensures optimal gas flow and perfect exhaust dynamics.

    The twin-turbo system further includes a large intercooler, a dual-flow intake manifold with cast-in BRABUS Biturbo logo, and high-performance free-flow metal catalysts for efficient exhaust-gas purification.

    Forged BRABUS pistons provide a charger-friendly compression ratio of 9.0:1. The engine is controlled by custom-tailored engine electronics with precision-matched mapping for ignition, injection and the electronic BRABUS boost-pressure control. That guarantees not just optimal power yield but also exemplary low emissions in accordance with the EURO IV norm. Like all BRABUS engines the B63 Biturbo is lubricated exclusively with ARAL high-performance motor oil.
    Does it sound like Brabus half-asses anything? These guys custom spec'd mirror-image turbos to avoid compromising. They designed their own OEM-quality cast exhaust manifolds. Do you honestly believe they only incorporated 6 exhaust runners, all the while knowing that using 8 instead would've yielded superior results?

    Hypothetically, what if using 8 runners would've dictated a smaller, less-efficient turbo be used due to space constraints? Would you prefer the smaller, less-efficient turbo be used to be a "true, valid" design in your eyes?

  2. #127
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Funny Click here to enlarge
    You think, I understand lzh is a very special type of person and I'm tryung to deal with him the best way possible, I gotta start doing what almost everyone else does about him here

    Drives: Basically a pretty bad ass f250 lifted with 24" wheels! Dpf delete 4" exhaust h&s tuner and intake..

  3. #128
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
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    That's not a fact, it's an opinion, which is an important distinction.
    I think it is a fact that a proper turbo system is spooled by all the exhaust gas from the motor. Why do you think the BMW S63 makes so much more power than the BMW N63? It is due to being fed by more exhaust pulses. So can you explain to me why you would want less exhaust pulses feeding your turbos? Even when top engineers decide the amount of exhaust gas feeding the turbos is of paramount importance?

    I don't think it is an opinion at that point, it is fact.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Does it sound like Brabus half-asses anything? These guys custom spec'd mirror-image turbos to avoid compromising. They designed their own OEM-quality cast exhaust manifolds. Do you honestly believe they only incorporated 6 exhaust runners, all the while knowing that using 8 instead would've yielded superior results?
    How many times does it need to be stated I wrote the engineering is impressive and I only at first thought it was a half-assed approach?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hypothetically, what if using 8 runners would've dictated a smaller, less-efficient turbo be used due to space constraints? Would you prefer the smaller, less-efficient turbo be used to be a "true, valid" design in your eyes?
    You don't know that and why would 8 runners correlate to less-efficient turbos?

  4. #129
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
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    You think, I understand lzh is a very special type of person and I'm tryung to deal with him the best way possible, I gotta start doing what almost everyone else does about him here
    I don't know why anyone gets upset about anyone. There is an ignore feature.

  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't know why anyone gets upset about anyone. There is an ignore feature.
    I deal with people much worse then him daily, I doubt he could upset me its actually fun for me I really meant it in the earlier post he's one of the reasons in here he's such a disturbed person it makes me,laugh

    Drives: Basically a pretty bad ass f250 lifted with 24" wheels! Dpf delete 4" exhaust h&s tuner and intake..

  6. #131
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
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    I deal with people much worse then him daily, I doubt he could upset me its actually fun for me I really meant it in the earlier post he's one of the reasons in here he's such a disturbed person it makes me,laugh
    He isn't disturbed at all and I don't think anyone here is. You all get into it including myself but every guy from the forum I have met in person seems to be a down to Earth and a good overall human being. I think we just get carried away behind the keyboard but let's say we were all sitting around chatting in person I think we would all get along.

    Click here to enlarge

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He isn't disturbed at all and I don't think anyone here is. You all get into it including myself but every guy from the forum I have met in person seems to be a down to Earth and good overall human being. I think we just get carried away behind the keyboard but let's say we were all sitting around chatting in person we would all get along.

    Click here to enlarge
    You I think your wrong he starts with everyone he disagrees with that isn't normal. I can't wait to meet him and see what he's really about,

    Drives: Basically a pretty bad ass f250 lifted with 24" wheels! Dpf delete 4" exhaust h&s tuner and intake..

  8. #133
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
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    I can't wait to meet him and see what he's really about
    Just about enjoying fast cars and living life just like you.

  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
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    You think, I understand lzh is a very special type of person and I'm tryung to deal with him the best way possible, I gotta start doing what almost everyone else does about him here
    And that would be what, exactly ?? Lose a debate and then resort to sarcasm ? You're doing a bang up job, keep up the good work Click here to enlarge

  10. #135
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    OH MY GOOOOODDDD.....

    Did we just start a thread to argue about our off-topic arguing from another thread?

    Oh cool.... now continue arguing Click here to enlarge
    2007 E63 P30

  11. #136
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Click here to enlarge
    LOL.... this image is so true.... Click here to enlarge

    I cracked up laughing when I saw this image and now everybody is looking at me wondering what the heck I'm laughing about Click here to enlarge I would've repped you a few more times for it but I I can't.
    2007 E63 P30

  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
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    OH MY GOOOOODDDD.....

    Did we just start a thread to argue about our off-topic arguing from another thread?

    Oh cool.... now continue arguing Click here to enlarge
    Not a thread to continue arguing or anything like that but simply move the posts somewhere else so that Weistec's thread is not cluttered.

  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not a thread to continue arguing or anything like that but simply move the posts somewhere else so that Weistec's thread is not cluttered.
    I know bro.... I was just making fun of the situation Click here to enlarge I actually suggested we do this a few threads ago Click here to enlarge

    I'm wondering though.... with all the stuff going on in the Benz section of the forum, how the heck haven't you shot yourself already? Click here to enlarge
    2007 E63 P30

  14. #139
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think it is a fact that a proper turbo system is spooled by all the exhaust gas from the motor. Why do you think the BMW S63 makes so much more power than the BMW N63? It is due to being fed by more exhaust pulses. So can you explain to me why you would want less exhaust pulses feeding your turbos? Even when top engineers decide the amount of exhaust gas feeding the turbos is of paramount importance?

    I don't think it is an opinion at that point, it is fact.



    How many times does it need to be stated I wrote the engineering is impressive and I only at first thought it was a half-assed approach?



    You don't know that and why would 8 runners correlate to less-efficient turbos?
    Instead of a piece by piece tit-for-tat, I'll leave it at this: more than any other aftermarket tuner that I'm aware of (maybe Ruf?), Brabus has nearly limitless engineering and R&D budgets to meet their design objectives - likely rivaling (if not surpassing) some outright automotive manufacturers.

    Suffice it to say, I trust their judgement, and am confident they had their reasons for the unique exhaust-routing design of their proprietary M156 biturbo manifolds. At least, moreso than the errant skepticism of a third-party layperson's opinion, who (to my knowledge) has no classical training or background in mechanical engineering. YMMV of course.

  15. #140
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm wondering though.... with all the stuff going on in the Benz section of the forum, how the heck haven't you shot yourself already?
    I'm really having fun, I can't quite explain it.

    I want to get BenzBoost on the same level as BimmerBoost. A lot of MBworld guys still don't know about this place or that there is far more posting posting freedom making discussions far, far more entertaining.

    Heh, I deal with it Click here to enlarge

  16. #141
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Instead of a piece by piece tit-for-tat, I'll leave it at this: more than any other aftermarket tuner that I'm aware of (maybe Ruf?), Brabus has nearly limitless engineering and R&D budgets to meet their design objectives - likely rivaling (if not surpassing) some outright automotive manufacturers.

    Suffice it to say, I trust their judgement, and am confident they had their reasons for the unique exhaust-routing design of their proprietary M156 biturbo manifolds. At least, moreso than the errant skepticism of a third-party layperson's opinion, who (to my knowledge) has no classical training or background in mechanical engineering. YMMV of course.
    You are absolutely correct, Brabus can do basically anything they want.

    Maybe they did the M156 setup just to show off? To do something different?

    It does not change that fact, and I stress the word fact, you want to use as many exhaust pulses as possible and in a V8 that is paramount. I wrote an article that covers some of this if you would like to read it.

  17. #142
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
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    And that would be what, exactly ?? Lose a debate and then resort to sarcasm ? You're doing a bang up job, keep up the good work Click here to enlarge
    Im not a debator like yourself I don't care to debate anyone,

    Drives: Basically a pretty bad ass f250 lifted with 24" wheels! Dpf delete 4" exhaust h&s tuner and intake..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
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    Im not a debator like yourself I don't care to debate anyone,
    Yeah, I've never seen you debate or argue with anyone on here I must have you confused with that other Dodger guy Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
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    Yeah, I've never seen you debate or argue with anyone on here I must have you confused with that other Dodger guy Click here to enlarge
    If you thought that I apologize I didn't say I don't voice my opinion or call a douche a douche but the back and forth isn't my thing,

    Drives: Basically a pretty bad ass f250 lifted with 24" wheels! Dpf delete 4" exhaust h&s tuner and intake..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dodger63 Click here to enlarge
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    If you thought that I apologize I didn't say I don't voice my opinion or call a douche a douche but the back and forth isn't my thing,

    Really, cause you're doing it right now...

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