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    Brabus twin turbo M156/M159 technical discussion + miscellaneous arguing

    That is one strong SLS.... it's even more powerful than Brabus's twin turbo SLS Click here to enlarge

    Sticky.... I'm glad this time you decided to put the details of Stage 1 package in text in the first post and not all on the dynograph Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Sticky.... I'm glad this time you decided to put the details of Stage 1 package in text in the first post and not all on the dynograph
    The features for the SC were listed in the same manner here as the features were listed in the post for the M156 NA tune.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    That is one strong SLS.... it's even more powerful than Brabus's twin turbo SLS
    The Brabus twin turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The Brabus twin turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders.
    Whereas the Brabus m156 biturbo runs on 6 cylinders, the Brabus m159 biturbo runs on 8 cylinders. A different vband setup vs the cast integrated turbine hotside.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jiaim Click here to enlarge
    Whereas the Brabus m156 biturbo runs on 6 cylinders, the Brabus m159 biturbo runs on 8 cylinders. A different vband setup vs the cast integrated turbine hotside.

    http://www.germanboost.com//images/i...edesSLSA-1.jpg
    Ah, I figured they were both the same, my mistake. You are correct, the M159 is all 8 whereas the M156 is 6.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The Brabus twin turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders.
    While I know what you meant, that's not technically accurate, even if it were the same approach as the M156 (I realize it's been explained that it's not, and the M159 configuration is different).

    A Brabus twin turbo M156 vehicle doesn't "only run on 6 cylinders" - the turbos are spooled by the exhaust gases from only 6 cylinders, but the vehicle runs on all 8 cylinders, and all 8 cylinders receive boost pressure generated by the twins.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    While I know what you meant, that's not technically accurate, even if it were the same approach as the M156 (I realize it's been explained that it's not, and the M159 configuration is different).

    A Brabus twin turbo M156 vehicle doesn't "only run on 6 cylinders" - the turbos are spooled by the exhaust gases from only 6 cylinders, but the vehicle runs on all 8 cylinders, and all 8 cylinders receive boost pressure generated by the twins.
    Yes, you knew what I meant but if we break it down further the twin turbo does only run on 6 cylinders but the car is on 8 meaning the initial statement can be interpreted as correct. Regardless, it seens to obly be the m156 turbo using 6 to spool.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, you knew what I meant but if we break it down further the twin turbo does only run on 6 cylinders but the car is on 8 meaning the initial statement can be interpreted as correct. Regardless, it seens to obly be the m156 turbo using 6 to spool.
    Since you included the model in your statement, I disagree. "The Brabus twin turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders" - I haven't diagramed a sentence in awhile, but I'm pretty sure that isn't correct now matter how you'd push to interpret it.

    Frankly, the context of the comment didn't make sense either - that the Brabus twin-turbo system makes less power than the Weistec S/C because it might be spooled by only 6 cylinders? Your automotive knowledge is pretty broad... I'm surprised you'd make a comment like that - it's pretty naive.

    Though we now know that it's not true and Brabus's M159 is spooled by all 8 cylinders - even if it were true and only 6, as long as you have enough exhaust volume to spool them properly (which, 4.65L of displacement should suffice just fine), the engine's still benefiting from as much boost pressure as the ECU program is targeting... and as an added bonus, doesn't have the parasitic losses of an S/C to worry about. At these power levels, those parasitic losses could easily reach (if not exceed) 100 hp.

    If the Brabus twin-turbo makes less power than the Weistec M159 S/C system, then it's pretty safe to assume that Weistec is pushing way more boost through the M159 than Brabus is choosing to with their system.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    Since you included the model in your statement, I disagree. "The Brabus twin turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders" - I haven't diagramed a sentence in awhile, but I'm pretty sure that isn't correct now matter how you'd push to interpret it.

    Frankly, the context of the comment didn't make sense either - that the Brabus twin-turbo system makes less power than the Weistec S/C because it might be spooled by only 6 cylinders? Your automotive knowledge is pretty broad... I'm surprised you'd make a comment like that - it's pretty naive.

    Though we now know that's not true - even if it were, as long as you have enough exhaust volume to spool them properly (which, 4.65L of displacement should suffice just fine), the engine's still benefiting from as much boost pressure as the ECU program is targeting... and as an added bonus, doesn't have the parasitic losses of an S/C to worry about. At these power levels, those parasitic losses could easily reach (if not exceed) 100 hp.

    If the Brabus twin-turbo makes less power than the Weistec M159 S/C system, then it's pretty safe to assume that Weistec is pushing way more boost through the M159 than Brabus is choosing to with their system.
    I would be glad to argue this except im on my cell.

    Regardless, the twin turbo system dies run in 6 cylinders so it depends if one interprets speaking about the turbo setup or the motor as a whole. My initial statement which implied the turbo system which you correctly deduced and posted that you understood what I meant supports this.

    The statement was ambiguous, not incorrect.

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    Also, I did not say because of only 6 cylinders the brabus makes less power only that it does use 6 cylinders. I have enough familiriaty with turbo sixes from the bmw side it should be obvious to you I know how much power they can make.

    If you wish to challenge my automotive knowledge you are going to have to do better.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The statement was ambiguous, not incorrect.
    Agree to disagree.

    Oh, FWIW... one can frequently ascertain what someone else means, even if that someone else inadvertently makes an incorrect statement... which doesn't make the statement itself any less incorrect.

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    Ascertaining what I implied supports that there was an additional deduction to be made but does not prove I was incorrect. I should have been more clear but you understood I was talking about the twin turbo system which means that is one way to intepret it where the statement is correct meaning it can be correct.

    You can intepret what one means whether they are correct or incorrect or even partially correct.

    Can I get back to drinking now?

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    This comment:
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    That is one strong SLS.... it's even more powerful than Brabus's twin turbo SLS Click here to enlarge
    Sparked this response from you:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The Brabus twin turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders.
    1. Your statement is false - the SLS runs on 8 cylinders... and as we now know all 8 cylinders spool the two turbos, not 6. It's factually inaccurate - not ambiguous.

    2. Perhaps more importantly: your opinion is that the Weistec supercharged SLS makes more power than the Brabus twin turbo SLS because of.... what exactly?

    I say, as an educated guess, that it's likely because Weistec is running a lot more boost than Brabus. Peak horsepower output, which is what was being discussed, has nothing to do with how many cylinders spool the turbos - it could be 4, or 6, or 8. A S/C system is at a huge disadvantage to a turbo system for peak output by its inherent design, which means it typically has to push a lot more boost to reach an equal or greater power level than the turbo system.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    This comment:


    Sparked this response from you:



    1. Your statement is false - the SLS runs on 8 cylinders... and as we now know all 8 cylinders spool the two turbos, not 6. It's factually inaccurate - not ambiguous.

    2. Perhaps more importantly: your opinion is that the Weistec supercharged SLS makes more power than the Brabus twin turbo SLS because of.... what exactly?

    I say, as an educated guess, that it's likely because Weistec is running a lot more boost than Brabus. Peak horsepower output, which is what was being discussed, has nothing to do with how many cylinders spool the turbos - it could be 4, or 6, or 8. A S/C system is at a huge disadvantage to a turbo system for peak output by its inherent design, which means it typically has to push a lot more boost to reach an equal or greater power level than the turbo system.
    Can't you do this in the morning?

    I already stated I was mistaken regarding the twin turbo m159 which runs on 8 abd tge tein turbo m156 which runs on 6. At no point did i say it was due to 6 cylinders that weistec makes more power.

    The weistec setup needs to push more air to make mire power considering especially that turbos are efficient. Why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power i have no clue. Perhaps you just wanted my attention? A joke, enjoy.

    Thanks for writing some basics which you should aim at someone else or create a thread for others if you are trying to impress ppl.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    At no point did i say it was due to 6 cylinders that weistec makes more power.

    The weistec setup needs to push more air to make mire power considering especially that turbos are efficient. Why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power i have no clue.
    Now you've really got me confused. Yes, I get the more air thing, since it's what I've been saying all along. Here's specifically what I'm confused about:

    Exeenom was obviously impressed by the power the Weistec SLS kit is making, commenting that it's more powerful than Brabus's biturbo SLS kit.

    You replied "the Brabus twin-turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders" - even though we now know that not to be true, set that aside for a moment - what point were you trying to make with that reply to Exeenom?

    Because now you're saying "at no point did I say it was due to 6 cylinders that Weistec makes more power" and "why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power I have no clue" - well, let me clue you in - you brought up the 'ambiguous' lower cylinder count issue, as a direct reply to a post commenting that Weistec S/C makes more power than Brabus TT. That's why I (and, I'd assume any reasonable person) would assume you meant it as a reason the Brabus kit makes less power. Are you now saying it was just intended as an irrelevant post?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    Now you've really got me confused. Yes, I get the more air thing, since it's what I've been saying all along. Here's specifically what I'm confused about:

    Exeenom was obviously impressed by the power the Weistec SLS kit is making, commenting that it's more powerful than Brabus's biturbo SLS kit.

    You replied "the Brabus twin-turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders" - even though we now know that not to be true, set that aside for a moment - what point were you trying to make with that reply to Exeenom?

    Because now you're saying "at no point did I say it was due to 6 cylinders that Weistec makes more power" and "why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power I have no clue" - well, let me clue you in - you brought up the 'ambiguous' lower cylinder count issue, as a direct reply to a post commenting that Weistec S/C makes more power than Brabus TT. That's why I (and, I'd assume any reasonable person) would assume you meant it as a reason the Brabus kit makes less power. Are you now saying it was just intended as an irrelevant post?
    I have to agree with you on this one. His response to my comment seem to directly imply that the lower power was due to the turbos running on lower cylinder count, which co-relates the whole "why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power" comment to your statement - at least that's what I got from it as well.... Click here to enlarge
    2007 E63 P30
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    Now you've really got me confused. Yes, I get the more air thing, since it's what I've been saying all along. Here's specifically what I'm confused about:

    Exeenom was obviously impressed by the power the Weistec SLS kit is making, commenting that it's more powerful than Brabus's biturbo SLS kit.

    You replied "the Brabus twin-turbo SLS only runs on 6 cylinders" - even though we now know that not to be true, set that aside for a moment - what point were you trying to make with that reply to Exeenom?

    Because now you're saying "at no point did I say it was due to 6 cylinders that Weistec makes more power" and "why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power I have no clue" - well, let me clue you in - you brought up the 'ambiguous' lower cylinder count issue, as a direct reply to a post commenting that Weistec S/C makes more power than Brabus TT. That's why I (and, I'd assume any reasonable person) would assume you meant it as a reason the Brabus kit makes less power. Are you now saying it was just intended as an irrelevant post?
    There is a Brabus twin turbo setup that runs on 6 cylinders although the motor itself runs on 8 hope we have that part clear by now.

    I brought up the cylinder count issue because I thought the 6 cylinder turbo setup was odd from the beginning and therefore would rather opt for an SC (especially when price is factored in) although now I learned they have a twin turbo M159 setup. I also thought it was interesting to mention as it isn't expected someone would do a 6 cylinder turbo setup on an M156 of all motors.

    I considered the 6 cylinder turbo setup kind of a half assed way of doing it as it would never be as capable as it could be although when I looked further into it the engineering of it sure was impressive. I mentioned it in part to denote that it isn't as good as it could be and also that it could make more power if it used 8. Satisfied?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    That's why I (and, I'd assume any reasonable person) would assume you meant it as a reason the Brabus kit makes less power. Are you now saying it was just intended as an irrelevant post?
    Well now you have clarification from me and do not need to assume. Plus, why do you automatically tend to make negative assumptions? You could have just asked a follow up question or for further clarification instead of trying hard to create some sort of error.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    I have to agree with you on this one. His response to my comment seem to directly imply that the lower power was due to the turbos running on lower cylinder count, which co-relates the whole "why you assumed I meant cylinder count equals power" comment to your statement - at least that's what I got from it as well.... Click here to enlarge
    You agree on an implication? Well, glad to see you guys agree on an assumption Click here to enlarge

    I mean, hey, not like either of you considered searching my post history to see past statements on turbo 6 cylinders or anything so you might not have to make assumptions...

    Not like I ever said cylinder count isn't the decisive factor or anything: http://germanboost.com/showthread.ph...321#post217321

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    It really isn't as simple as the cylinder count. Some of the strongest high end cars are 6's.
    You guys crack me up looking for fault anywhere when I was simply trying to share info that Brabus did a 6 cylinder turbo setup, that is all. Whatever implications you drew were your own and I explained in further detail but if you want to continue to think I meant something else when I tell you I didn't and have proof of previously posting points that directly contradict your assumption go right ahead.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There is a Brabus twin turbo setup that runs on 6 cylinders although the motor itself runs on 8 hope we have that part clear by now.

    I brought up the cylinder count issue because I thought the 6 cylinder turbo setup was odd from the beginning and therefore would rather opt for an SC (especially when price is factored in) although now I learned they have a twin turbo M159 setup. I also thought it was interesting to mention as it isn't expected someone would do a 6 cylinder turbo setup on an M156 of all motors.

    I considered the 6 cylinder turbo setup kind of a half assed way of doing it as it would never be as capable as it could be although when I looked further into it the engineering of it sure was impressive. I mentioned it in part to denote that it isn't as good as it could be and also that it could make more power if it used 8. Satisfied?



    Well now you have clarification from me and do not need to assume. Plus, why do you automatically tend to make negative assumptions? You could have just asked a follow up question or for further clarification instead of trying hard to create some sort of error.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You agree on an implication? Well, glad to see you guys agree on an assumption Click here to enlarge

    I mean, hey, not like either of you considered searching my post history to see past statements on turbo 6 cylinders or anything so you might not have to make assumptions...

    Not like I ever said cylinder count isn't the decisive factor or anything: http://germanboost.com/showthread.ph...321#post217321



    You guys crack me up looking for fault anywhere when I was simply trying to share info that Brabus did a 6 cylinder turbo setup, that is all. Whatever implications you drew were your own and I explained in further detail but if you want to continue to think I meant something else when I tell you I didn't and have proof of previously posting points that directly contradict your assumption go right ahead.
    Sticky - the Brabus M156 biturbo is not a 6 cylinder turbo setup. All 8 cylinders are turbocharged. Each turbo is spooled by the exhaust gases from 3 cylinders... so the spool is provided by a total of 6 cylinders... but that's not the same as only turbocharging 6 cylinders on an 8 cylinder motor, as you're (repeatedly) making it out to be.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - the Brabus M156 biturbo is not a 6 cylinder turbo setup. All 8 cylinders are turbocharged. Each turbo is spooled by the exhaust gases from 3 cylinders... so the spool is provided by a total of 6 cylinders... but that's not the same as only turbocharging 6 cylinders on an 8 cylinder motor, as you're (repeatedly) making it out to be.
    Yes, spool is provided by 6 cylinders. Isn't that what we have been talking about?

    Wouldn't a true 8 cylinder setup be turbochargers spooled by 8 cylinders?

    I just threw it out there I didn't think it would become a big issue but we can explore it as it is interesting anyway. Although perhaps we should do so in the thread for it so this can remain about the Weistec SC as it should.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why didn't you post pictures of your SLS or a thread about it to begin with? You might have received a warmer reception if you introduced yourself.

    Once your friend gets the SC and you experience it you will want it, simple as that.
    Oh so now your implying that because I didn't start a thread about my car and post pictures, I can be assumed a liar? And a moron like LZH can keep insulting me?

    Last I Checked I'm not the only one driving an SLS. Second, nobody asked me to post pics of my car.

    Another thing I don't like posting pics of my personal belongings. Just like How JRcart doesn't like to post his claimed 660rwhp dyno sheet :-)

    The only reason I posted this video, because it was getting pathetic

    And just for your info Joseph, there are two members in this forum that I personally know that both have SLS's and did not even mention it. Personally I don't blame them from what has happened.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Oh so now your implying that because I didn't start a thread about my car and post pictures, I can be assumed a liar? And a moron like LZH can keep insulting me?
    Not at all. I'm just saying why didn't you introduce yourself instead of just insulting people in the beginning? It's in the past and all cool now.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Last I Checked I'm not the only one driving an SLS. Second, nobody asked me to post pics of my car.
    I know, I'm just saying a better introduction may have helped but it's over with now. Nice ride, enjoy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Oh so now your implying that because I didn't start a thread about my car and post pictures, I can be assumed a liar? And a moron like LZH can keep insulting me?
    ***I agree with you here. Some people on this forum don't believe anything anyone says without proof.

    Another thing I don't like posting pics of my personal belongings. Just like How JRcart doesn't like to post his claimed 660rwhp dyno sheet :-)

    ***I previously posted the dyno video when my and JR's set up was identical showing the power so this is old news. The fact you missed it is not our fault.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Here is the video. Sorry folks for my language towards LZH, but this is what he gets for doubting me and calling me a liar. I didnt want to do this, but he asked for it and joseph wanted the video too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHhHT...ature=youtu.be


    what do you got to say now Luke?

    what cars do you own? have you even ever tuned a car of your own before???

    I personally dont think so.

    seriously bro, stay out of my league.

    I'm sorry if this video offended anybody
    LOL. Thats how you show some proof. Nice work, nice car.

    Lets see if Luke has the intestinal fortitude to come back on and apologize for calling you a liar.
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - the Brabus M156 biturbo is not a 6 cylinder turbo setup. All 8 cylinders are turbocharged. Each turbo is spooled by the exhaust gases from 3 cylinders... so the spool is provided by a total of 6 cylinders... but that's not the same as only turbocharging 6 cylinders on an 8 cylinder motor, as you're (repeatedly) making it out to be.
    Which exhaust cylinders are not being used in the Brabus M159 turbo manifold? Is it the front left & right bank cylinders?

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lenny@renntech Click here to enlarge
    Which exhaust cylinders are not being used in the Brabus M159 turbo manifold? Is it the front left & right bank cylinders?

    Click here to enlarge
    If I am not mistaken all cylinders are used on the M159 system but only the back six on the M156 systems.
    Click here to enlarge

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