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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well the reason is because you are essentially running the same ET as E92 M3's are (those M3's having less power than mine had that also I'm adding quite a bit of power to) so it seems to essentially be a wash at this point.

    Come on Jim, what does my tuner have to do with the capability of the platform? Yes, they are taking a long time but that isn't the issue here in the discussion.

    Screaming Eagle... now there is something I didn't expect you to say. Ok, but do I get to pick the vintage? $850 won't do it though but we can pick a different wine as well since the price gets up there. If I win I'll share a glass as well, happily. I have only had it once:

    Attachment 13639
    $850-$900 will buy 2006 in my parts, at least that was the going price in early 2011.

    As for the capability of the platform, the fact that an AMG...actually a handful of them are faster in various states of tune than the quickest E92 out there should tell you something. There are nearly 3x as many E92 M3s on the road as C63 and CLK BSs combined and its a well known fact that a higher percentage of M3 owners tune and mod their cars(remember I was an M3 guy since mids 90s when i owned a 95 LTW and have owned several other M3s since). So knowing all that why isn't the E92 quicker? The motors are weak, the transmissions are weak, its a great car for track days and even for sanctioned spec road racing but for shear, grunt relaible max hp it can't hold a candle to a 63. I know you are wearing blinders and I don't want to rain on your parade but if you think your car is going to hang with the Weistec BSs you're dilusional. Earl and I have yet to run our cars in optimum conditions, hell Earls 10.70 was run at an event with no VHT or burnout box in Vegas in Oct with a +3000 DA now we are adding a couple hundred more hp, imaginge what they will do. With decent track prep in a decent or neg DA and temps under 50. I'm sure your car is gonna be absolutely sick but you will have to show me that its quicker because on paper and in discussion I am not buying what you're selling.

    ...what kind of HP do you anticipate making?
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    As for the capability of the platform, the fact that an AMG...actually a handful of them are faster in various states of tune than the quickest E92 out there should tell you something.
    Aren't we comparing the M156 V8 to the S65 V8? If so, it is a wash thus far.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    There are nearly 3x as many E92 M3s on the road as C63 and CLK BSs combined and its a well known fact that a higher percentage of M3 owners tune and mod their cars(remember I was an M3 guy since mids 90s when i owned a 95 LTW and have owned several other M3s since). So knowing all that why isn't the E92 quicker? The motors are weak, the transmissions are weak, its a great car for track days and even for sanctioned spec road racing but for shear, grunt relaible max hp it can't hold a candle to a 63.
    How is the motor weak? The motor is arguably stronger. What it will come to down to is boost vs. boost and I'll take the motor with the higher redline and broader/flatter curve in that case. The S54 from the E46 M3 is making over 1000 whp, no MB motor exceeds it from what I have seen and it is only a 3.2 liter 6 cylinder but because it is so efficient it makes big power.

    Calling the tranmissions weak makes no sense since there is a manual option that obviously is much stronger and has higher capability than any MB automatic. The DCT outshifts anything MB has with an M156 attached to it.

    It absolutely can hold a candle to the 63 and actually for a while there M3's were making way more power than any M156. I bought it because it is the better mod platform. Weistec has shifted things a bit but don't forget the S65 in the M3 is even more capable than the S54 in the E46 M3 and as I stated that motor is well into the quadruple digit power range.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I know you are wearing blinders and I don't want to rain on your parade but if you think your car is going to hang with the Weistec BSs you're dilusional. Earl and I have yet to run our cars in optimum conditions, hell Earls 10.70 was run at an event with no VHT or burnout box in Vegas in Oct with a +3000 DA now we are adding a couple hundred more hp, imaginge what they will do. With decent track prep in a decent or neg DA and temps under 50. I'm sure your car is gonna be absolutely sick but you will have to show me that its quicker because on paper and in discussion I am not buying what you're selling.

    ...what kind of HP do you anticipate making?
    How can you call me delusional when your last statement asks what the power figure will be? How can you make that comment without even knowing?

    We'll just compare them on the strip and roadcourse which will make for a great article/video but I just find it odd you are acting like your car or Earl's is going to be on some different planet of fast.

    If I could fit a bigger blower I would be making way too much power for you to reach with a 2.3 liter blower. As it stands I will run a YSI which I believe has pretty high HP capability and will make for an excellent comparison. Remember, I'm running a centrifugal blower. My car is a mean, mean $#@! on the top end.

    It's going to be a lot of fun.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    $850-$900 will buy 2006 in my parts, at least that was the going price in early 2011.
    That is just the mailing list price. It's tough to find for under $1500 if you aren't on the list. And I'm not on the list...

  4. #29
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    Sticky, what part of weak do you need help with the definition of? You keep contradicting yourself, let me ask you this, if the motor is soooo great and strong why not run higher boost? I'm mean you use my higer boost against me, so why not bump the boost up to the levels that the Weistec M156s are and completely shatter some records???? Answer: because we all know the stock motor will grenade, hench the reason you are getting new internals...or so you just like wasting money? Bottom line if they could handle it somebody would have already done it. I'm not a newb so don't try to baffle me with bull$#@! and expect me to buy in. I'm not hating I'm just realistic, notice how I newver criticize E46s?
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  5. #30
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    One more thing...why don't any of the E92 guys stand up to what I am saying? Maybe because they know I'm right? I know a lot of BMW faithful that don't like many aspects of the E92 platform and are hoping the new M5 fills some of the gaps left open by the E92.

    Sticky, I'm sure you're going to have one fast car, hopefully we will get to see it run sometime this year.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    why don't any of the E92 guys stand up to what I am saying?
    1 i dont know exactly what your car has done, so i cant compare mod-mod
    2. currently you ARE making more power and faster, but reverts to #1
    3. i dont have the $ to build like you and sticky, so I dont have a car to put against, so its worthless to argue a point i cant prove or attempt to prove

  7. #32
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    Hi,

    I like your attitude, kind of reminds me of Mert lol.

    Don't compare your on of the kind car to others. Sticky's car won't even in the same league as your car because you spent much more than him on your car IMO. It's not a fair comparison.
    Anyways, boosted S65 vs boosted M156 is gonna end with a win for M3 due the weight, gearing and the efficiency of the head. Don't get disappointed by the drag ET's or trap miles of these M3's, BMW's never liked to launch from a dig and on higher speeds they become alive. S65 block can hold one digit boost easily and give more than enough power to most drivers so they satisfy about it. You want big numbers? then you have to wait. The BMW tuning scene though has more potential than MB's, is a bit slow. It took 6 years to have turbo big HP kits for E46, after 5 year we still haven't seen higher powered N54's and just G-power could make a kit for S85.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    1 i dont know exactly what your car has done, so i cant compare mod-mod
    2. currently you ARE making more power and faster, but reverts to #1
    3. i dont have the $ to build like you and sticky, so I dont have a car to put against, so its worthless to argue a point i cant prove or attempt to prove
    My post was not a challenge, I was just making the point that this is not the first time I pointed out some weaknesses of the E92 compared to the M156.M159 platforms. Usually if you knock a brand or vehicle the fanboys come out of the woodwork looking for vengence but the truth of the matter is that no reasonable arguement can be made for the E92 M3 in terms of HP, drag racing, 60-130, standing mile and 0-100-0 capabilities. Sticky seems to be the only guy that thinks he is going to be able to hang the the MB's...I hope he can, but while he is raising the bar for the E92 platform Earl and I are raising the bar for our platform and our bar was already set a nothc or two higher, all it takes is one quick look at the 1/4 Mile list for each make posted on this site to see there are 5 63's running 10's and only 1 E92 M3 running 10's and the E92 10 3-4/10ths off the pace of the quickest 63.

    It's not hate, it's common sense and experience talking. I hope Sticky breaks out a monter that can stick it to me and force me to do even more, but my gut is telling me that he is still going to be a step or two behind.
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  9. #34
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    JRCART, can you tell the specs of your please? 6.2 V8 with a Whipple, right? sounds like fun.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Hi,

    I like your attitude, kind of reminds me of Mert lol.

    Don't compare your on of the kind car to others. Sticky's car won't even in the same league as your car because you spent much more than him on your car IMO. It's not a fair comparison.
    Anyways, boosted S65 vs boosted M156 is gonna end with a win for M3 due the weight, gearing and the efficiency of the head. Don't get disappointed by the drag ET's or trap miles of these M3's, BMW's never liked to launch from a dig and on higher speeds they become alive. S65 block can hold one digit boost easily and give more than enough power to most drivers so they satisfy about it. You want big numbers? then you have to wait. The BMW tuning scene though has more potential than MB's, is a bit slow. It took 6 years to have turbo big HP kits for E46, after 5 year we still haven't seen higher powered N54's and just G-power could make a kit for S85.
    E92 M3's have been in production since 2007, that's 4.5 years, about the same amount of time the M156 enginge platform has been around (late 2006). Weistec introduced their forced induction unit for the M156 last December so if your theory is correct the Bimmer tuners are overdue for some BIG performance numbers in comparison to MB tuners.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    JRCART, can you tell the specs of your please? 6.2 V8 with a Whipple, right? sounds like fun.
    What I was running up until this past November was the stock 6.2 motor and a Wiestec Supercharger making about 664rwhp but it's not a Whipple. Weistec uses a Lysholm 2.3L twin-screw unit. I was also running Weistec's race ported heads, evosport Longtube Headers and other various odds and ends. The car has been in Weistec's hands since late October getting a number of new much bigger items added which should boost the power output by approx 30%, I'm sure you can do the math on that one.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JCRART
    E92 M3's have been in production since 2007, that's 4.5 years, about the same amount of time the M156 enginge platform has been around (late 2006). Weistec introduced their forced induction unit for the M156 last December so if your theory is correct the Bimmer tuners are overdue for some BIG performance numbers in comparison to MB tuners.
    Late 2007 so more like 4 years.

    In BMW scene, the after just 1 year or 2 you will have various options for getting medium power but it take more time to have higher powered options. For S65, the SC option from G-Power, Gintani, ESS, AA and VFE has been available from late 2009. You have to wait if you want more HP. Right now there is a guy in a garage doing a turbo on S65, expectation is around 1000 HP, Fast E92 are coming Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART
    What I was running up until this past November was the stock 6.2 motor and a Wiestec Supercharger making about 664rwhp but it's not a Whipple. Weistec uses a Lysholm 2.3L twin-screw unit. I was also running Weistec's race ported heads, evosport Longtube Headers and other various odds and ends. The car has been in Weistec's hands since late October getting a number of new much bigger items added which should boost the power output by approx 30%, I'm sure you can do the math on that one.
    Wow, you mean mid 800whp? how's the trans holding? or even the block? i didn't know M156 was that much strong. I'm jealous man Click here to enlarge
    But why Lysholm? There are better options out there.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Late 2007 so more like 4 years.

    In BMW scene, the after just 1 year or 2 you will have various options for getting medium power but it take more time to have higher powered options. For S65, the SC option from G-Power, Gintani, ESS, AA and VFE has been available from late 2009. You have to wait if you want more HP. Right now there is a guy in a garage doing a turbo on S65, expectation is around 1000 HP, Fast E92 are coming Click here to enlarge



    Wow, you mean mid 800whp? how's the trans holding? or even the block? i didn't know M156 was that much strong. I'm jealous man Click here to enlarge
    But why Lysholm? There are better options out there.
    Late 2007 to early 2012 is 4.5 years by my math, but I guess it's not worth splitting hairs....and no, I don't mean 800rwhp, I mean more like 850+ rwhp Click here to enlarge. Trans is fine but we went ahead and started working on some improvements anyhow just to be proactive becuase it's proabably just a matter of time before the trans becomes an issue. As for why Weistec chose the Lysholm core unit you would have to ask them.
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    Nice, Hope you enjoy it.
    If i didn't dump 320k in a 458, i could have driven something that fast or even faster.

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    how much boost for 660ish HP?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    how much boost for 660ish HP?
    13-14psi
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    damn, 2x as much as the s/c S65's..

    clearly there is a hardware advantage then, if the m156 can handle that boost and the s65 cant.
    but thats really probably like 16 psi before the head and exhaust work though.

    so although impressive, its not, 60ish hp from 2x boost with heads, headers, and other odds and ends

    i think you will have your hands full when a built motor car, like sticky's, comes out to play.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    damn, 2x as much as the s/c S65's..

    clearly there is a hardware advantage then, if the m156 can handle that boost and the s65 cant.
    but thats really probably like 16 psi before the head and exhaust work though.

    so although impressive, its not, 60ish hp from 2x boost with heads, headers, and other odds and ends

    i think you will have your hands full when a built motor car, like sticky's, comes out to play.
    ....ummmm my motor is getting built as we speak, how else do you think I am going to get the additianal 30% gain in HP I stated earlier?
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    i wish you the best, but i dont see that project going as planned though

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, what part of weak do you need help with the definition of? You keep contradicting yourself, let me ask you this, if the motor is soooo great and strong why not run higher boost?
    I am running higher boost. The only reason I can't run boost higher than I was at first was the compression ratio. Just like you.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I'm mean you use my higer boost against me, so why not bump the boost up to the levels that the Weistec M156s are and completely shatter some records???? Answer: because we all know the stock motor will grenade, hench the reason you are getting new internals...
    Because my stock compression ratio is higher than yours. The S65 has much higher specific output stock for stock, explain that?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Bottom line if they could handle it somebody would have already done it. I'm not a newb so don't try to baffle me with bull$#@! and expect me to buy in. I'm not hating I'm just realistic, notice how I newver criticize E46s?
    There is no BS here I'm throwing around or expecting you to buy in. You provide your perspective, I provide mine.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    One more thing...why don't any of the E92 guys stand up to what I am saying? Maybe because they know I'm right? I know a lot of BMW faithful that don't like many aspects of the E92 platform and are hoping the new M5 fills some of the gaps left open by the E92.

    Sticky, I'm sure you're going to have one fast car, hopefully we will get to see it run sometime this year.
    Well I think E92 guys would stand up for it just that there really is, well, just me doing what I'm doing it.

    Kind of like how there really aren't many M156 guys who would even be worth the time of a built motor SC M3 so we are dealing with a small representation on both sides.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I hope he can, but while he is raising the bar for the E92 platform Earl and I are raising the bar for our platform and our bar was already set a nothc or two higher, all it takes is one quick look at the 1/4 Mile list for each make posted on this site to see there are 5 63's running 10's and only 1 E92 M3 running 10's and the E92 10 3-4/10ths off the pace of the quickest 63.
    There are 2 E92 M3's running 10's and several over 130 mph in the 1/4 mile.

    The E92 M3 is running the same ET with less power. With equal power what will happen?

    It isn't hate and I don't take it that way so don't worry about it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i wish you the best, but i dont see that project going as planned though
    LOL...what are you talking about??? The project is basically done. I'm flying to Vegas in the morning and will be at Weistec on Tuesday...you M3 guys gotta get off the reefer or something.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    E92 M3's have been in production since 2007, that's 4.5 years, about the same amount of time the M156 enginge platform has been around (late 2006). Weistec introduced their forced induction unit for the M156 last December so if your theory is correct the Bimmer tuners are overdue for some BIG performance numbers in comparison to MB tuners.
    The Bimmer tuners are overdue but also consider that the M156 only has one true option (Weistec) while the M3 now has 5 good supercharger options. So, built motors are the next logical step. The E46 M3 aftermarket had a lot of stock internal competition as well and then the built motor stuff picked up with Horsepower Freaks in particular.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    LOL...what are you talking about??? The project is basically done. I'm flying to Vegas in the morning and will be at Weistec on Tuesday...you M3 guys gotta get off the reefer or something.
    Looking forward to the results, enjoy it!

    I'm going to move these posts to a new thread since it is a new topic.

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