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  1. #1
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    EVO Magazine: Porsche Cayman R vs. BMW 1M vs. Audi TT-RS vs. Nissan 370 Z - EVO gets it wrong

    Here is a interesting comparison by EVO Magazine of some of the best drivers cars out there that one may be able to actually afford. The supplemental video to the article only focuses on the BMW 1M and Porsche Cayman R leaving out the 370Z and Audi TT-RS which is a bit disappointing. EVO felt the BMW 1M and Porsche Cayman R were the class of the field with the TT-RS being placed in last place and the 370Z coming in third.

    In the video EVO's Chris Harris states both the 1M and the Cayman R are brilliant. The part that grinds my gears is he states M cars are not about the motor but the chassis. He correctly states it is the same engine as the 135i. Well Chris, that makes the car a 135is and not an M car. M cars are about the complete package including the motor not a cheap parts bin mash-up taking the engine from the 135 with some parts from the M3 thrown in. Sorry, it is a fantastic car but it is not a real M car and never will be as you yourself mention it does not have an M motor. Your definition may be that M's are about the chassis but if that is true BMW would have never felt the need to create separate and specific "S" motor designation specifically for M cars only. The chassis is an important part but it is just a part of the whole M experience which includes the motor. BimmerBoost will have an article dedicated to refuting your entire baseless assertion next month, count on it.

    The BMW 1M ends up winning this comparison over the Cayman R. Although the 1M is a great car, the Cayman R is the better driver's vehicle of the two. It is lighter, mid-engined, and has an optional dual clutch transmission which the BMW 1M lacks. EVO themselves makes our case for us regarding the 1M, "No, it doesn’t have the immaculate polish and homogenous tactility of the Porsche – the brakes are over-assisted at road speeds and it lacks the remarkable pliancy and supple body control of the Cayman – but it counters with scintillating overtaking ability, greater levels of mechanical grip and a handling balance that’s almost as sweet."

    It doesn't have the polish of the Cayman R? It doesn't have as good of a brake feel? It doesn't have the same body control? It doesn't have as great of handling balance? It wins because of turbo torque despite Chris Harris stating the naturally aspirated motors offer better response and make precise throttle control easier? We think EVO needs to figure out how to make a consistent argument that does not undermine itself and then try again. They got it wrong, the Cayman R is the superior drivers car.

    Click here to enlarge


    If the embedded video does not work, click here: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...ssan_370z.html

  2. #2
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    Sticky, seriously? Come on man.

    Obviously he had the most fun with the 1M.....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, seriously? Come on man.

    Obviously he had the most fun with the 1M.....
    They said the Cayman was the best handling with the best balance and best brakes.

    They contradict themselves, it's a bad review.

    Also, you can't undermine the engine and then say the car wins based on it's "overtaking" ability. The whole thing is just badly done.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, seriously? Come on man.

    Obviously he had the most fun with the 1M.....
    No kidding...
    ​#Chuckstrong

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They said the Cayman was the best handling with the best balance and best brakes.

    They contradict themselves, it's a bad review.

    Also, you can't undermine the engine and then say the car wins based on it's "overtaking" ability. The whole thing is just badly done.
    Have you even driven one more than thirty minutes and with the traction/stability control off?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Have you even driven one more than thirty minutes and with the traction/stability control off?
    I'm not saying the car is not tons of fun to drive.

    I'm saying the review is inconsistent, contradictory, and overall just a poor comparison.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not saying the car is not tons of fun to drive.

    I'm saying the review is inconsistent, contradictory, and overall just a poor comparison.
    Otay!! Click here to enlarge
    ​#Chuckstrong

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    I haven't driven either 1M or the Cayman R, but I did beat the living $#@! out of a Cayman S loaner this summer.
    My sister always gets sweet loaners at the P-car dealership when she services her Cayenne and she always drops by to let me drive them.
    I drove the Cayman S for about 1.5 hrs and gave the car everything I could.
    There's an old abandoned school nearby that hasn't been used in years, but it has a near perfect oval road around the school with ample room to get some good speed and tight turns.
    I must have drove in a circle for 30mins w/o stopping--most of the time at WOT and I left that day with tons of respect for the Cayman S and considered getting a gently used one for a dedicated track car someday.
    I think the Cayman is a much overlooked vehicle because of the 911 and p-car purists, but I would consider adding one to my stall--and the R looks even better!
    BTW don't ever buy a pre-owned loanerClick here to enlarge
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    EVO does it all the time, e.g. "the ferrari 458's technology gives a driving experience thats unmatched...the porsche is better because its more natural"(not their exact words, but the gist of a lot of their subjective conclusions of tests). I don't completely discount their opinion but I read the articles understanding that the articles are just that, well written opinions.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    EVO does it all the time, e.g. "the ferrari 458's technology gives a driving experience thats unmatched...the porsche is better because its more natural"(not their exact words, but the gist of a lot of their subjective conclusions of tests). I don't completely discount their opinion but I read the articles understanding that the articles are just that, well written opinions.
    Well said but the thing is this one is not even well written. The points are not cohesive whatsoever.

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    The Cayman R is awesome and the I have driven the S and also sick conversion done by Farnbacher Loles 2 years ago. You can place the Cayman most anywhere in a turn, drift it or make mistakes and it doesn't bite like the 911 could or would. Especially the older 911 like my old 89 Turbo, drop throttle oversteer is not your friend. Trust me...
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #12
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    Yeah, I would love to have any of those cars, hell I would have all of them if I could, but when a guy is writing his opinion you can't say he is wrong....

    But I can respect the opinion that it is not written as some people would like. It's all good, let's just be happy badass cars are still being made!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    but when a guy is writing his opinion you can't say he is wrong....
    Sure you can, especially when it is inconsistent.

    This is a professional automotive media outlet, I expect better.

    They could also at the very least post embed code that works...

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    Typical Evo article.

    Harris does have a thing for BMW M-cars as well. I believe he has or had a E92 M3 at some point.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They said the Cayman was the best handling with the best balance and best brakes.

    They contradict themselves, it's a bad review.

    Also, you can't undermine the engine and then say the car wins based on it's "overtaking" ability. The whole thing is just badly done.
    It's a contradiction of sorts, I assume he meant and should have written that it isn't as good handling or have the brake feel of the Cayman but wins because the driver have more fun in it Click here to enlarge

    I been to a Porsche track day where all non-turbo 911's, Carreras and Cayman where at our disposal. It was fun, BUT something is lacking from them. There isn't anything technically to complain about it is something else, a car for $150k should be much more exiting to be in, this was like kissing your sister, it doesn't help how good she looks, if you enjoy it there is something wrong with you! Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    It's a contradiction of sorts, I assume he meant and should have written that it isn't as good handling or have the brake feel of the Cayman but wins because the driver have more fun in it
    They didn't say it won because it was more fun...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    if you enjoy it there is something wrong with you!
    I wouldn't put it past the British.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They didn't say it won because it was more fun...
    No and that's why they make no sense...



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I wouldn't put it past the British.
    I have few british close friends, they are very nice, polite and all pervs Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    1M won again. It is a truly fantastic car. Similar to M3 but with more torque i.e. less peaky power delivery.

  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    1M won again. It is a truly fantastic car. Similar to M3 but with more torque i.e. less peaky power delivery.
    The M3 is geared shorter and its torque multiplication is larger. The 1M has lag, the M3 has a better torque curve that doesn't fall on its face.

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    Can i have their jobs...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by persian54 Click here to enlarge
    Can i have their jobs...
    A better question is why they are still employed. Why I don't have my own magazine yet I have no clue.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The M3 is geared shorter and its torque multiplication is larger. The 1M has lag, the M3 has a better torque curve that doesn't fall on its face.
    This is the key right here...

    I cannot find the article for the life of me, but was reading a story about BMW Motorsport. I THINK the article was from Car & Driver - so it was surprising to me what they said. This is a non-direct quote, but it went something like this - "you buy an M for the engine. This is what makes is special and unique. There are no other cars that I can say this about except for Ferrari." ... They way it read was much better in the article, but the main point is that the engine - having a near perfect torque curve, an insane redline, great response - etc. makes it that much more rewarding than an engine with a similar power rating.

    I do like the 1M - however, really wish they stuffed the S54B32 in it - it would have been another classic car that I probably would have to purchase. Maybe another 100lbs lighter, and direct injection/tuning (CSL spec?) to add another 30 horses - and this thing would have ALL the BMW/M enthusiasts wanting one... Oh, and a DSG gearbox of course. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I cannot find the article for the life of me, but was reading a story about BMW Motorsport. I THINK the article was from Car & Driver - so it was surprising to me what they said. This is a non-direct quote, but it went something like this - "you buy an M for the engine. This is what makes is special and unique. There are no other cars that I can say this about except for Ferrari." ... They way it read was much better in the article, but the main point is that the engine - having a near perfect torque curve, an insane redline, great response - etc. makes it that much more rewarding than an engine with a similar power rating.
    EXACTLY.

    M car's aren't about the motor? Ya $#@!ing right.

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    Sticky - your site reminds me of the checkout aisle at a grocery store where you see all those pop-culture trash magazines. Total waste of time. Yet occasionally I still pick one up while waiting... Same reason I check this site I suppose. I just get so sick of hearing you rant about how much more "M" your car is versus most other M cars that BMW produced. Cancel my subscription. oh wait...

  25. #25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DubSport Click here to enlarge
    Sticky - your site reminds me of the checkout aisle at a grocery store where you see all those pop-culture trash magazines. Total waste of time. Yet occasionally I still pick one up while waiting... Same reason I check this site I suppose. I just get so sick of hearing you rant about how much more "M" your car is versus most other M cars that BMW produced. Cancel my subscription. oh wait...
    Your opinion reminds me of someone who only has 13 posts and rarely reads the site meaning therefore their opinion is based on a biased sample size they are intentionally skewing to promote a false assumption based on ignorance of the aforementioned. This making your opinion on the quality or what constitutes it essentially meaningless.

    I can tell you there are many members with more than 13 posts who spend time reading all the various perspectives and seem to enjoy them. What do I know? Site growth directly contradicts you so I do not even need to say anything. I enjoy people like you who criticize yet continue to read. They have been doing it since I started, and?

    I can always settle for more people read my opinions on "M" than do yours. Yours only being read because it happens to be in a topic I created essentially piggybacking off the strength of my opinion you are criticizing yet apparently is strong/noteworthy enough to generate a response from you. Notice the reverse has never taken place? Can't cancel that, can you?

    I am not referring to my car but referring to the 1M. All M cars produced before it are more M than it in my opinion. If you need confirmation look under the hood of any of them which is, in my opinion, the heart of the M experience. If you would like to debate this point rather than lob some lame little comments please do considering it should be easy as my basis for my opinions is clearly superficial and geared toward the masses just like the pop-culture trash you mention. That of course being the case meaning obviously I would not be able to use sarcasm effectively to make my point. Wait, did I?

    Let me know if this post was too complex for someone who reads the Enquirer at the supermarket.

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