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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No no, please do. I'm sure it will go as well as your understanding of history. We have some of the cheapest cars on the planet.

    Honestly not worth the effort or time. You are a smart guy, look it up. If you say you can go as well as my understand of history than you don't need me to tell you anyway.

    We do have some of the cheapest markups on cars on the planet. Do you think MB is losing money selling to us? HA!
    The discount you received came nothing close to MB profit margin. Making more from their own citizens has nothing to do with third party markup so it really doesn't fit this debate at all anyhow. The amount of markup has nothing to do with if they are indeed marking up the prices due to middle men.

    I didn't pay markup. I paid something called MSRP. Actually I didn't as I paid under but there is a difference between markup and a retail price.

    Yes, you beat the system. LOL. Trust me, the dealer still made its money just not from you. The government made its money "Gas Guzzler Tax" from you however. State tax ect. Thats a markup. The import tax and shipping companies made money from you as well. Thats another markup. Everyone needs to make money. Don't confuse paying less money than Germans do as not paying a middle man. MB is the supplier. You pay everyone else on the way from their warehouse to the dealers floor. All markup due to middle men. If you think you don't pay that, again, think again.

    What? You are an expert on market share in the tuning market? Some of these resellers were just working in their niche. Techtec can tune basically all the cars and have a much further reach.

    Not an expert, but its not hard to see the very small percentages of the market that tunes their cars. This is why there is such cut throat in the business.

    Oh really? When? And what would this have to do with anything? I have never ever even dealt with Techtec in my life. I was just thinking about getting their e-mail to clarify this whole Singh/MHP situation.

    It was a Joke. Think about it. Click here to enlarge
    ...
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    Honestly not worth the effort or time.
    Cop out.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    We do have some of the cheapest markups on cars on the planet.
    Margin, not markup. You used the idea correctly later in your statement. Markup is what a dealer or third party charges on top of the margin.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    Yes, you beat the system. LOL. Trust me, the dealer still made its money just not from you.
    Nobody is claiming they didn't make money. The difference is I didn't buy from some third party calling themselves a dealer who just bought the car from the authorized dealer and then resold it to me with 50% on top of what I could of bought it for. Don't you see the difference?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    Not an expert, but its not hard to see the very small percentages of the market that tunes their cars. This is why there is such cut throat in the business.
    But you understand we are not just talking MB here, right? Singh is supposedly reselling all the various Techtec tunes which means a lot of platforms. It isn't really all that small with that much potential reach.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    It was a Joke. Think about it.
    Did not come off as one.

  3. #53
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    I figured I would through my 2 cents out on the discussion.

    In our particular case, we have 2 Eurocharged franchises that take care of our tuning in canada and hong kong (soon to expand further into asia). They handle all our tuning/customers and get the files from us. Yes, we don't make as much money (because we are lean as can be and our prices are low) but it helps us to extend our reach into markets we wouldn't be able to put the proper attention and time to, not to mention help customers efficiently in another time zone. Kinda the same thing from techtek.

    Now, as far as a customer going direct to tecktek for tuning, yes its possible to buy direct. However, their direct to customer files are not the same thing they give to their resellers. I can make the assumption that this is due to the fact they would have to support the customer and it also helps their reseller push good product.

    Now, the odd thing in this particular case, is the tuning market is very small and we all know each other. For them to say they didn't know andy is pretty funny. Jerry and andy have talked many many times and they have a mutual respect for each other. On the same point, I recently reached out to cory at kleeman for some hep with some help with my ecu (emissions lol) and we we just shooting the stuff about both companies.

    I figured I would also throw out how we do our tuning. We use dimsport for our interface hardware. We have to wait for them to release a protocol as well as base maps in order for us to interface with the vehicle. Techtek is one of the fastest in the industry in releasing that "protocol" Our V3 C63 tune was created based on our other tune (also created on the dyno), with the help of our own C63 and 3 days of back to back dyno runs.

    Sorry for the long post, but figured some of the info might be helpful.
    Eurocharged Performance
    Tuner of the WORLDS FASTEST E55 - 10.46 @ 134.42
    Tuner of the WORLDS FASTEST C32 - 12.33 @ 115.08

    Locations in Houston - Chicago - Boston - DC- Toronto - Hong Kong - South Africa
    Over 30 other dealer locations around the word

    Sales@eurocharged.com

    Over 7000 customers strong!

    Proud tuning partners of Underground Racing!

    Click here to enlarge

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Cop out.



    Margin, not markup. You used the idea correctly later in your statement. Markup is what a dealer or third party charges on top of the margin.



    Nobody is claiming they didn't make money. The difference is I didn't buy from some third party calling themselves a dealer who just bought the car from the authorized dealer and then resold it to me with 50% on top of what I could of bought it for. Don't you see the difference?



    But you understand we are not just talking MB here, right? Singh is supposedly reselling all the various Techtec tunes which means a lot of platforms. It isn't really all that small with that much potential reach.



    Did not come off as one.

    Not a cop out just not worth my time as I have been down the "Debate" road with you before and you are stubborn as a mule and twist words and comment on what you feel is pertinent and discard what doesn't help your argument. You lawyer up immediately and I get enough of that during the week.

    A perfect example is the current discussion. You have digressed completely from the original argument in some effort to prove your point. The point is simple, its better to be a supplier than it is to be a retailer in this case in my opinion. I haven't seen one reason otherwise other than your claim that "Techtec doesn't think so" based on some rumor you heard. As stated Ill believe it when I see it.

    It didn't come off as a joke to you because there might be some truth behind it and you are a sensitive guy. Click here to enlarge
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    Not a cop out just not worth my time as I have been down the "Debate" road with you before and you are stubborn as a mule and twist words and comment on what you feel is pertinent and discard what doesn't help your argument
    This is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me, thank you.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    A perfect example is the current discussion. You have digressed completely from the original argument in some effort to prove your point.
    No, it is cohesive there just are real world examples involved.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    The point is simple, its better to be a supplier than it is to be a retailer in this case in my opinion.
    Ok, that is fine. I disagree and the way Techtec is moving to position themselves it would seem they see the value in expanding their direct market presence.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    It didn't come off as a joke to you because there might be some truth behind it and you are a sensitive guy.
    Then it was not a joke and I asked you for a specific example. I'm not sensitive as much as thorough.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me, thank you.

    I'm sure others have been nicer. I was being polite
    . Click here to enlarge

    Ok, that is fine. I disagree and the way Techtec is moving to position themselves it would seem they see the value in expanding their direct market presence.

    Again, they are exploring a possibility based on what you heard. Ill believe it when I see a press release from Techtec.

    Then it was not a joke and I asked you for a specific example. I'm not sensitive as much as thorough.

    It was a Joke. You know exactly what I am speaking of. You are sensitive. Embrace it. Click here to enlarge
    ...
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    Again, they are exploring a possibility based on what you heard. Ill believe it when I see a press release from Techtec.
    That is fine, just saying I knew people involved in it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    It was a Joke. You know exactly what I am speaking of. You are sensitive. Embrace it.
    I am asking you to detail what you are speaking of. I'm not sensitive enough to desire an embrace at the moment.

  8. #58
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    go to the Techtec website and switch the website into English format. Located at the top right corner. If you look at thier partners around the world, MHP doesnt exist.Click here to enlarge

    contact Techtec themselves. They have never worked with MHPClick here to enlarge. I dont want to start any drama against anybody. MHP openly discussed that they get files from Techtec. However, Techtec states that they dont. Question is, why would MHP claim such a thing and where are they really getting thier files from?. If MHP are really getting thier files from Techtec, how is it that andy uploaded a file from Evotech that was shown in this forum not too long ago?Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    how is it that andy uploaded a file from Evotech that was shown in this forum not too long ago?
    Wait, what?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Wait, what?
    Remember the Epoxy stuff and the drama between MHP and OEtuning. MHP claimed that Jeremy gave one customer of his an Evotech race file....

    Turned out that Jeremy never downloaded that file to the ECU and it came from MHP

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Turned out that Jeremy never downloaded that file to the ECU and it came from MHP
    So you are saying they were flashing the files they were accusing someone else of doing?

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So you are saying they were flashing the files they were accusing someone else of doing?
    Exactamindo.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Exactamindo.

    Not flashing, but providing falsified software and claiming it was from someone else. The question is, how did MHP get a hold of an Evotech software?

  14. #64
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    Is this really going to be re-hashed again?
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Not flashing, but providing falsified software and claiming it was from someone else. The question is, how did MHP get a hold of an Evotech software?
    If this is true that is just too much. Has anyone spoken to a person from Evotech? Good question as far as how he would have gotten a hold of the software.

    The irony in this is just... wow. How do you know this for sure?

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    Is this really going to be re-hashed again?
    Yes, because there was a missing component previously and it would seem there is a major question as to where those files came from and how they were obtained. I'm sure enough people here have had their ECU's touched that they would like to know.

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    Now you wonder why our great banned vendor uses Epoxy and claims he partners with Techtec. I got a good source who told me that Andy recieves his tunes from a well known thief named "Stewart". Stay away from him people

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Now you wonder why our great banned vendor uses Epoxy and claims he partners with Techtec. I got a good source who told me that Andy recieves his tunes from a well known thief named "Stewart". Stay away from him people
    An easy way to resolve the claim you are making is to remove the epoxy and read the file on an MHP tuned car.
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    An easy way to resolve the claim you are making is to remove the epoxy and read the file on an MHP tuned car.
    He is essentially saying a file was read out and it was Evotech.

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
    Now you wonder why our great banned vendor uses Epoxy and claims he partners with Techtec. I got a good source who told me that Andy recieves his tunes from a well known thief named "Stewart". Stay away from him people
    So these files aren't even paid for? Just stolen? That is a major accusation and if true should he not be prosecuted?

    If this is correct then I do not even understand the pricing then.

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    Singh is now claiming that MHP uses Techtec for tuning... but sources it through a middleman.

    For those that feel Andy is selling a pirated Evotech tune... how is he doing it? He allegedly R&D'd (with his tuner) one of the first LT header-matched tunes for the C63. He openly admits he doesn't write or edit code - so where did the header-matched file come from? How was it developed?

    I could maybe buy the "offers a pirated tune" theory if a tuner was only offering a stage 1, one-size-fits-all product... but if they have a whole suite of tunes to compliment various hardware configurations... it seems unlikely that all of those files are somehow sourced illegitimately. IMHO.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    I could maybe buy the "offers a pirated tune" theory if a tuner was only offering a stage 1, one-size-fits-all product...
    Why can you only pirate a one size fits all tune? Why can't you pirate more than one tune?

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why can you only pirate a one size fits all tune? Why can't you pirate more than one tune?
    It's not that one couldn't... but the logistics start to get pretty tricky.

    Specific to this situation, the logic and timeline becomes improbable, at best. Andy owned a C63 development car starting in late 2008, IIRC. He worked with an exhaust fabricator in OH to develop their 4-1 LT headers. AFAIK, it was one of the first LT header designs to market for a C63. When you need a specific tune to match hardware that no one else has developed (yet), where do you steal it from? That's rhetorical.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    It's not that one couldn't... but the logistics start to get pretty tricky.
    But it certainly is a possibility.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    When you need a specific tune to match hardware that no one else has developed (yet), where do you steal it from? That's rhetorical.
    How do you even know the tune differed much if at all? Perhaps another tuner edited it on the side? Who knows, tons of variables.

    I need to get in touch with Evotech as this is all pretty interesting.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    It's not that one couldn't... but the logistics start to get pretty tricky.

    Specific to this situation, the logic and timeline becomes improbable, at best. Andy owned a C63 development car starting in late 2008, IIRC. He worked with an exhaust fabricator in OH to develop their 4-1 LT headers. AFAIK, it was one of the first LT header designs to market for a C63. When you need a specific tune to match hardware that no one else has developed (yet), where do you steal it from? That's rhetorical.
    I really think you guys are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. Anyone that knows tuning and the limitations you have to work with will tell you that there really aren't that many parameters you can play with. Once you have a base file, just about any tuner can go in and easily modify parameters. These guys aren't writing the base code that makes an M156 start, run, idle etc. They are taking what someone else has cracked, and tweaking it a little. And it's not hard to understand that the M156 is STARVED for oxygen when you look at how it performs and the OEM tune. Opening up the exhaust with headers and allowing the M156 to pump more air is easily achieved....as long as you have a base file.
    All this talk about whose tune is better is such bull$#@! because they are all doing essentially the same thing for the M156 in n/a form. I have a buddy at Motec who used to give our Grand Am team support for our DP cars. I saw him recently and asked him to read my tuned ECU and tell me exactly how extensive the changes were from the OEM tuning and he laughed and said, "about 4 parameters that would take me 15 minutes to alter".

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