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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Hell you can make and LS1 more powerful NA than the M156 and have a ton of money left over.
    Once again, dollar per horse is irrelevant. The LS1 is still an ancient design and outdated design compared to the M156.

    I'm sure an LS1 is easily more powerful NA with the right parts than an F430 V8 but I know which motor is truly more impressive.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Oh I agree I'm just saying it's not just the LSX that can be made beastly. And it becomes difficult to dismiss them as having an inferior design when you see stock block ls1's making twice the NA power of an M156 with less money.
    It's not difficult to dismiss as an inferior design, it is an inferior design.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    15k...you can call him if you want
    He said for parts... that is with the LSA subtracted. What about tune and labor?

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Once again, dollar per horse is irrelevant. The LS1 is still an ancient design and outdated design compared to the M156.

    I'm sure an LS1 is easily more powerful NA with the right parts than an F430 V8 but I know which motor is truly more impressive.
    So what your saying is the performance of a motor is irrelevant in determining which is more impressive? Why because the Ferrari cost 40x's more and is less reliable? Your buying into a brand and not into the bottom line.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Than what makes superior engineering? What does it do that an LSX can't for less?
    Money per horsepower is irrelevant. Who cares? LSX people care because that is their main argument.

    If wanted dollar per horse I wouldn't drive a BMW. There is something beautiful about a high rpm screamer with a flat curve. The factory LS1 curve falls of a cliff and it is a cheaply designed motor.

    I don't care what it does in the aftermarket with a ton of money thrown at it. It is still a product of inferior engineering.

    Guess I prefer the Porsche GT3 flat-6 to the LSX series.

    What does it do that an LSX can't? How about dual overhead cams?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    So what your saying is the performance of a motor is irrelevant in determining which is more impressive? Why because the Ferrari cost 40x's more and is less reliable? Your buying into a brand and not into the bottom line.
    You simply are going by horsepower potential in the aftermarket which has nothing to do with the factory cars as presented. Fact is here we have a naturally aspirated 6.2 liter running with a blown 6.2 liter. Uh, someone is doing a better a job designing a motor.

    I'm saying aftermarket performance is irrelevant in determining the better engineered motor which the M156 is. Has nothing to do with the brand. Wonder why no LS series motor has ever won an engine of the year award.

  7. #57
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    lol...at the end of the day all i wanna do is go fast....and im pretty sure a highway pull with an LSX against an M156 will ever have the M156 winning that battle

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    lol...at the end of the day all i wanna do is go fast....and im pretty sure a highway pull with an LSX against an M156 will ever have the M156 winning that battle
    Most likely not... but that still isn't an LSA that comes with the CTS-V Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Money per horsepower is irrelevant. Who cares? LSX people care because that is their main argument.

    If wanted dollar per horse I wouldn't drive a BMW. There is something beautiful about a high rpm screamer with a flat curve. The factory LS1 curve falls of a cliff and it is a cheaply designed motor.

    I don't care what it does in the aftermarket with a ton of money thrown at it. It is still a product of inferior engineering.

    Guess I prefer the Porsche GT3 flat-6 to the LSX series.

    What does it do that an LSX can't? How about dual overhead cams?
    Well honestly cost has to be factored in because of course the M156 is doing more without the blower. It has 3x's more money put into in from the factory. All the aftermarket components you dismiss have been put in stock on the Benz. You brought up design and I'm telling you without altering the design of the LS(ie I'm not changing the fundamental functioning of the motor) just upgrading components will yield a better result. That is indisputable.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Most likely not... but that still isn't an LSA that comes with the CTS-V Click here to enlarge
    See no LSA, Hear no LSA, Speak no LSA Click here to enlarge

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    It's funny because I drove a V and didn't like it much and went out and bought a 550i which doesn't have the potential and aftermarket support the V does and here I am arguing on the other side of the coin but I bought it cause I preferred it as my DD not because it would be easier or cheaper to make power.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    It's funny because I drove a V and didn't like it much and went out and bought a 550i which doesn't have the potential and aftermarket support the V does and here I am arguing on the other side of the coin but I bought it cause I preferred it as my DD not because it would be easier or cheaper to make power.
    lol....i mean u cant dipute the PROS of that line of engines...if you wanna make crazy power and not spend a fortune the LS line is the way to go

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Well honestly cost has to be factored in because of course the M156 is doing more without the blower. It has 3x's more money put into in from the factory. All the aftermarket components you dismiss have been put in stock on the Benz. You brought up design and I'm telling you without altering the design of the LS(ie I'm not changing the fundamental functioning of the motor) just upgrading components will yield a better result. That is indisputable.
    The fact the Mercedes has a higher price point shows cost per hp comparisons are ridiculous because the MB will always be at a disadvantage. Does not change the fact it is the better engineered motor.

    What is indisputable is the LS is an ancient design.

  14. #64
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    BTW sticky....if i get my car and its build done before you get your car back I would see that as a very big problem Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    BTW sticky....if i get my car and its build done before you get your car back I would see that as a very big problem Click here to enlarge
    Sure, but we need people to push these platforms as it is a boring world where everyone takes the easy way out with an LSX. The sophistication of German engineering creates a problem. I prefer it that way though.

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The fact the Mercedes has a higher price point shows cost per hp comparisons are ridiculous because the MB will always be at a disadvantage. Does not change the fact it is the better engineered motor.

    What is indisputable is the LS is an ancient design.
    true...which is why GM is going to a new design soon.....but hey...if it aint broke dont fix it right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sure, but we need people to push these platforms as it is a boring world where everyone takes the easy way out with an LSX. The sophistication of German engineering creates a problem. I prefer it that way though.
    I'm sure that's the hold up, the sophistication of German engineering lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure that's the hold up, the sophistication of German engineering lol.
    lol....STICKYS CAR IS WHAT HOLDING EVERYTHING UP!!!!!!!...lol.....hurry up and get'er done Click here to enlarge

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The fact the Mercedes has a higher price point shows cost per hp comparisons are ridiculous because the MB will always be at a disadvantage. Does not change the fact it is the better engineered motor.

    What is indisputable is the LS is an ancient design.
    So its ancient and inferior how? With an m156 i get oil consumption problems, a glass trans, a motor that barely takes boost in stock form.

    And because it doesnt have dual overhead cams means Corvette's C5R LeMans racecar cant tango with the Porsches? When it did all day and ran without any hiccups whatsoever? At the 24hrs of Road Atlanta it actually dialed back its laptimes cuse it was so damn far ahead of the competition.

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    You know what, im down to spend 15k and make 1200hp on an LSA. I can make a few phonecalls.

    Not to mention those prices are listed as retail. No one said about discounts Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    You know what, im down to spend 15k and make 1200hp on an LSA. I can make a few phonecalls.

    Not to mention those prices are listed as retail. No one said about discounts Click here to enlarge
    i thought you were already building an LSX...i heard you named it "the sticky killer".....jk...lol Click here to enlarge

  22. #72
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    Did anyone say oil consumption? Lol I've got 9,200 miles in my N63 and have added 3qts and that's after doing an oil change at 3,000 miles. So I've burned 1qt every 2,000 miles with the sophisticated German engineering. And you know what the dealer says? That anything over 750mls/qt is within spec. That's why I've been asking sticky to name something that the superior engineering accomplishes that a pushrod can't.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    You know what, im down to spend 15k and make 1200hp on an LSA. I can make a few phonecalls.

    Not to mention those prices are listed as retail. No one said about discounts Click here to enlarge
    Contact Vengenace racing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Contact Vengenace racing.
    we will Click here to enlarge

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure that's the hold up, the sophistication of German engineering lol.
    Why wouldn't it be lol? Wish we had OHV engines and ECU's as sophisticated as a modern remote control but it doesn't work that way.

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