Close

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 73
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    I am a Mercedes technician. I have had a cls do this also. I would assume by your description that this is light medium throttle. It is a result of the tq converter locking up at lower rpms. We replaced the engine mounts and transmission mount and tq converter etc. like you have done. We eventually turned off the lock up and could not get it to do it. There is no way to fix this. You could have them try to reset the adaptations and relearn the tq converter lock up. You also should have them check the driveline like suggested and also check the driveshaft angles. A lot of times technicians do not put the shims back in the differential if they have it out and it causes bad vibrations. Does it get better after it has warmed up. This is normally true if it is driveline angle or flex discs.
    Unfortunately these issues are very hard to diagnose. Things are not obviously bad. There is no way to diagnose this sort of issue beyond some basic inspections. And technicians are stuck. We get payed for fixing it. Not trying things. And under warranty Mercedes is very bad about paying the bill for multiple attempts. And this type of problem like I said requires trying things until you get it.
    Thank you very much.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    I am a Mercedes technician. I have had a cls do this also. I would assume by your description that this is light medium throttle. It is a result of the tq converter locking up at lower rpms. We replaced the engine mounts and transmission mount and tq converter etc. like you have done. We eventually turned off the lock up and could not get it to do it. There is no way to fix this. You could have them try to reset the adaptations and relearn the tq converter lock up. You also should have them check the driveline like suggested and also check the driveshaft angles. A lot of times technicians do not put the shims back in the differential if they have it out and it causes bad vibrations. Does it get better after it has warmed up. This is normally true if it is driveline angle or flex discs.
    Unfortunately these issues are very hard to diagnose. Things are not obviously bad. There is no way to diagnose this sort of issue beyond some basic inspections. And technicians are stuck. We get payed for fixing it. Not trying things. And under warranty Mercedes is very bad about paying the bill for multiple attempts. And this type of problem like I said requires trying things until you get it.
    As Sticky said, thank you very much for your input.

    I just received a call from them that it's ready to go!

    Late Friday, they replaced the transmission valve body. Today, they drove it extensively and say that everything is A-OK. I will be picking it up tomorrow afternoon.

    So, to summarize, they replaced:

    1) Trasmission mount
    2) Torque converter

    I sure hope that it's completely fixed as they say it is. I'll let you know tomorrow afternoon.

    Thanks for your help, everyone. Great forum, by the way.
    3) Trasmission valve body

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,293
    Rep Points
    2,744.4
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Good to see its going well so far. I am a former MB tech as well, there are things that would just stump us. I had an E350 that kept throwing rear 02 codes, we tried EVERYTHING, new sensors, swapped an exhaust over from another car (they are prone to filling up with water while sitting cold and would damage the cats), reprogram, swap DMEs and reprogram, and I had left the dealer before they fixed it..no vacuum leaks, coolant temps were fine, tstat was fine, etc.



    Sometimes you just get that car that leaves you at a complete loss of words.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    As Sticky said, thank you very much for your input.

    I just received a call from them that it's ready to go!

    Late Friday, they replaced the transmission valve body. Today, they drove it extensively and say that everything is A-OK. I will be picking it up tomorrow afternoon.

    So, to summarize, they replaced:

    1) Trasmission mount
    2) Torque converter

    I sure hope that it's completely fixed as they say it is. I'll let you know tomorrow afternoon.

    Thanks for your help, everyone. Great forum, by the way.
    3) Trasmission valve body
    Glad to see progress, just let us know if the problem is resolved.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    82
    Rep Points
    202.3
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Glad to hear it is resolved. I would imagine it was the tq converter lock up. A new valve body would include a new tcu with newest software.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    Glad to hear it is resolved. I would imagine it was the tq converter lock up. A new valve body would include a new tcu with newest software.
    Nice to have you here.

    We have a BMW tech and a Mercedes tech now. Woot! Now to find an Audi and Porsche techs!

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Ok, I am very disappointed after returning from the service dept.

    So I arrived to pick up the car. Was told that it was "fixed".

    Happy as a clam, took it out on the interstate on my way back home. Just had to drive a few seconds to notice that it was exactly the same. NO improvement. Same vibration/very, very subtle hesitation/almost a shudder - all during light acceleration from about 65 to 80 mph, and especially worse during light acceleration going uphill.

    Took it right back to the dealership and told them that it's no different than it was before. Was told that they replaced the torque converter, but NOT the valve body - they apparently just replaced one of the valves within the valve body (they told me that when a torque converter is replaced, it is recommended that this specific valve in the valve body also be replaced at the same time - something that needs to be done together/at the same time).

    I was then told that, per MB, I have to drive the car 1000 miles and then, if it is still doing the same thing, THEN bring it back to them. This is where I almost lost it. I told them that that makes absolutely NO sense. I have a problem that is not any better than it was from day one, and the car was with them for 3 weeks! And it's still doing the exact same thing. Nothing has changed. It makes no sense to me that driving it 1000 miles will magically make everything better - I was told that "the transmission needs to learn how you drive and adapt - maybe it will go away on it's own".

    They told me that they won't even test drive it or continue to investigate the issue unless I drive it for 1000 miles. Does this make any sense to anyone?

    I have contacted the main customer service for MB. I should be hearing from a superviser within 24 hours, I was told.

    Any ideas?

    I am at wits end.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    I was then told that, per MB, I have to drive the car 1000 miles and then, if it is still doing the same thing, THEN bring it back to them. This is where I almost lost it. I told them that that makes absolutely NO sense. I have a problem that is not any better than it was from day one, and the car was with them for 3 weeks! And it's still doing the exact same thing. Nothing has changed. It makes no sense to me that driving it 1000 miles will magically make everything better - I was told that "the transmission needs to learn how you drive and adapt - maybe it will go away on it's own".
    That is ridiculous, what dealer is this?

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Posts
    2,792
    Rep Points
    258.1
    Mentioned
    142 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I was just just going to make a post saying this is an awesome dealership because most would just shrug it off after a couple attempts...then I read your last post. When you talk to the higher ups at MB ask them to put it in writing that they want you to drive it 1000 miles that way if anything happens to you or your car you will have it in writing for your attorney...that will get their attention real quick.
    Click here to enlarge

    1000+WHP WEISTEC 2008 CLK63 Black Series
    790WHP WEISTEC 2012 C63 Black Series
    725WHP WEISTEC 2014 SLS Black Series

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I was just just going to make a post saying this is an awesome dealership because most would just shrug it off after a couple attempts...then I read your last post. When you talk to the higher ups at MB ask them to put it in writing that they want you to drive it 1000 miles that way if anything happens to you or your car you will have it in writing for your attorney...that will get their attention real quick.
    This is actually a great suggestion.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    129
    Rep Points
    253.0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    i had a similar problem with my 211 E63 and it was due to the wheeel bearings needing adjustment. from 75 to 100 it was the most pronounced . It didnt help that the car was lowered with the wider wheels and tires putting more strain on them . Also a soft compound tire if sitting for a few days will develope a flat spot and until the tire warmed up i would get a shake and some noise .
    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    I was just just going to make a post saying this is an awesome dealership because most would just shrug it off after a couple attempts...then I read your last post. When you talk to the higher ups at MB ask them to put it in writing that they want you to drive it 1000 miles that way if anything happens to you or your car you will have it in writing for your attorney...that will get their attention real quick.
    I agree with Sticky, this is a GREAT suggestion. I will do just that.

    I'll keep you all updated as things progress.

    By the way, this is a great forum.

    Who is/are the mods?

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    Who is/are the mods?
    The reason it's great is because the users are the mods. I don't believe in moderators, I believe in the community policing itself.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    By the way, this is a great forum.
    Thank you, these posts make the work worth it.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    82
    Rep Points
    202.3
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    What they are asking is not that unreasonable. The adaptations can take quite some time. With the newer cars many transmission issues are resolved after just driving the car a few thousand miles. When I replace a valve body or reset the adaptations I go force some of the shift adaptations. But you can not simply get them all. It would take a 1000 miles and a few days of driving. I actually had the owner of the last dealership take me for a drive in his car, of course new, and by the time he had gotten around to bringing it into the shop the thing he was complaining about had fixed itself.
    Give it a shot. If it does not get better bring it back. You would rather drive your car the 1k miles than a technician wouldn't you? Besides no one gets paid to do this stuff. The dealer has to eat it out of pocket to do something like this. They sound like they are trying to me.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    What they are asking is not that unreasonable. The adaptations can take quite some time. With the newer cars many transmission issues are resolved after just driving the car a few thousand miles. When I replace a valve body or reset the adaptations I go force some of the shift adaptations. But you can not simply get them all. It would take a 1000 miles and a few days of driving. I actually had the owner of the last dealership take me for a drive in his car, of course new, and by the time he had gotten around to bringing it into the shop the thing he was complaining about had fixed itself.
    Give it a shot. If it does not get better bring it back. You would rather drive your car the 1k miles than a technician wouldn't you? Besides no one gets paid to do this stuff. The dealer has to eat it out of pocket to do something like this. They sound like they are trying to me.
    You make a good argument.

    1000 miles really seems excessive though... really excessive.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    What they are asking is not that unreasonable. The adaptations can take quite some time. With the newer cars many transmission issues are resolved after just driving the car a few thousand miles. When I replace a valve body or reset the adaptations I go force some of the shift adaptations. But you can not simply get them all. It would take a 1000 miles and a few days of driving. I actually had the owner of the last dealership take me for a drive in his car, of course new, and by the time he had gotten around to bringing it into the shop the thing he was complaining about had fixed itself.
    Give it a shot. If it does not get better bring it back. You would rather drive your car the 1k miles than a technician wouldn't you? Besides no one gets paid to do this stuff. The dealer has to eat it out of pocket to do something like this. They sound like they are trying to me.
    Well, I think that would make sense if it was a transmission-specific issue like shifting problems (too early/too late, jerkiness, slippage, etc). But this is an issue that really hasn't been investigated fully. As I said, after replacing the tranny mount, the torque converter, and one of the valves in the valve body, the problem is EXACTLY the same. No improvement whatsoever. I can imagine that the adaptations would take time in other cases, but since there's been no improvement, I really think that the issue has nothing to do with what they replaced. Giving it another 1000 miles is not going to do anything, in my opinion, sad to say.

    The concern I have is that another 1000 miles has the potential to make the underlying problem worse, therefore possibly damaging the drivetrain/engine further.

    I'll let you know when I hear back from MB customer service.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Also, whippleem104, can you please explain exactly what the "adaptations" do/mean? Do you mean that the TCU recognizes the way you drive and therefore tailors the shifts to that?

    Would love to hear exactly what the adaptation process involves.

    Thanks!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    82
    Rep Points
    202.3
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Honestly if the problem were to get worse it might be easier to find the solution. You have to imagine trying to find a vibration in a car at highway speeds in a shop is not really possible. Maybe if the car was on a 4 wheel dyno that you could do more but even then what would you check and how. You can measure driveline angles and see if something is damaged. Beyond that it is just taking logical guesses. To do more than this would take measuring equipment that only a manufacturer would have in a chassis development program. Millions of dollars. Like I said I would ask them to deactivate tq converter lock up and see if it goes away on a test drive. In my opinion it is the tq converter locking under very low rpm conditions that has been done in order to improve fuel economy. This may be something and is most likely something that the dealer is not going to be able to fix. It would require new programing that may not be avalable.
    Now the adaptations is much more than your driving habits. That mostly changes things like shift points and the general the response of the transmission based on driving habits. This is failry quick to change.
    Actual adaptations of the transmission shifts and tq converter engagement is a long term adaptation similar to fuel adaptations. Each adaptation for upshift and downshift and tq converter lockup has multiple learn in points depending on load and rpm and temperature. So for a 1-2 upshift there are I think 9 load fill points. High, medium, low load and 3 different transmission temperatures. This process is because no matter what manufacturer tolerances are every car is different. I have seen cars that are over a year old that have not filled most of the adaptation data in yet because the customer does not drive in those areas. So then once in a while they go full throttle in a 4-3 downshift and it shift like crap. If you went out and did this 5 times a day then it would learn. It also constantly adjusts for wear in the clutch pack and fluid condition etc. So it may actually fix itself by duplicating the scenario over and over and letting it adapt.
    Like I said I have seen what I think is your complaint before and I really do not think that there is anything wrong with the car and it is just an inherant vibration from bogging the motor. I drove one around for a couple of days with a fellow technician trying to isolate the exact cause and replaced many of the same parts you have listed. I think that we just eventually gave up but I was not the primary on the car and do not remember for sure. It is similar to being in to high of a gear in a stick shift and your engine is at 1500 rpm or so and it is just bogging. If you give it a little throttle then the tq converter disengages and or it down shifts and it goes away. You could log a complaint with the CAC and maybe get a response. I know this is not the answer that you want for this but changing software requires full recertification for emissions on a vehicle and without a large complaint pool is not going to happen.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Thanks for your reply.

    Couple of questions, please:

    1) What is the process of deactivating tq converter lockup? What I mean is how would they do that?
    2) If they deactive it, and drive it, and the vibration/slight hesitation/sometimes shuddering (very slight - but especially going uphill) goes away, then is there a way to just leave it deactivated? Would that be possible? If so, is that a bad idea?
    3) What is the CAC and how would I get in touch with them?

    Thanks very much.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    After doing some research online at various forums, I think it is torque converter lock-up shudder. I'm pretty sure that's what it is, based upon other people's descriptions. But if that is the case, shouldn't changing the torque converter have fixed it?

    On a related note, what are your thoughts about Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx or LubeGuard? LOL! I'm not going to risk putting ANY additive into my relatively expensive car, but just wanted to get your thoughts.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    By the way, the above about the additives was a joke. I would never, ever add any additive to my car, no matter what the cost. It was an attempt at a joke...

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    I'm pretty sure that's what it is, based upon other people's descriptions. But if that is the case, shouldn't changing the torque converter have fixed it?
    I would think so...

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    37
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    This from another forum, what do y'all think?

    "From what you have explained, all the symptoms point to a faulty converter, a slipping converter clutch. This is why it stops when you accelerate heavy which is when the converter clutch unlocks. There are several reasons for this. A leaking regulator valve in the transmission reducing line pressure and causing the slippage of the converter clutch or even the clutch material worn out and slipping. Also, a faulty TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) since line pressure is controlled by TPS position."

    I called a local tranny shop, described the problem, and he told me that these is no way a CLS 63 AMG should have any kind of shudder or vibration. He said drive it 1000 miles and if the problem persists, insist that MB put in a completely new (or at least, rebuilt) trasmission, including a new torque converter.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,189
    Rep Points
    31,313.5
    Mentioned
    2056 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    I called a local tranny shop, described the problem, and he told me that these is no way a CLS 63 AMG should have any kind of shudder or vibration. He said drive it 1000 miles and if the problem persists, insist that MB put in a completely new (or at least, rebuilt) trasmission, including a new torque converter.
    You may have to go down this route but just do the 1000 miles I guess since you have no choice. I just hope if it does end up going down this route that a completely new tranny fixed the issue.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    82
    Rep Points
    202.3
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    It really is not a shudder in the lock up clutch. That would be if it was trying to slip the clutch and it was locking and unlocking. That would be fixed by new parts. It is more likely that the converter is locking up completely as designed. It is just that perfect spot were the engine speed is really low. Like I said it is more like a stick shift that is in to high a gear and you step on the gas and the car shudders. CAC is the customer assistance center. You should have their number in your owners manual or simply ask the dealer for their number. It is a good way to get corporate involved in an issue. THe dealers are really locked donw as to the paths they are aloud to take due to warrenty cost controls. Otherwise they would just toss a new transmission and everything under the sun in there and who nows what the problem is or was.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •