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  1. #1
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    Need help with 2009 CLS 63 AMG, please

    First a little background:

    Just purchased this vehicle from a MB dealership in another state, they shipped it to me.

    19,000 miles, still has 1 year of factory warranty left, 1 year of certified warranty, and an additional year that I purchased as part of the sale.

    As soon as I received it, despite it being a certified vehicle, it had a vibration that starts at 70 mph and continues until reaching 80 mph (roughly). This vibration seems to come from underneath the car or from the back, hard for me to tell. It also gets worse with acceleration and also especially so when going up hill while accelerating. I initially thought that it was a tire balancing issue. Had the tires balanced. Didn't solve the issue.

    Took it back to the dealership. They replaced the transmission mount. Didn't solve the issue.

    Now it's been there for an additional three weeks, and we're no closer to a resolution. They've been going back and forth with "DTS" or Dealer Technical Service who have been advising the techs as to what to do next. Early last week, they replaced the torque converter. Didn't solve the issue. Same vibration. Last Friday, they replaced the valve body, and I have not heard back from them to see if it did the trick.

    Needless to say, I'm upset at:

    1 - why this vehicle was sold to me as a Certified car and it came to me with this issue.
    2 - why it has taken MB so long to even diagnose the problem and let alone fix it!

    Also, they apparently have checked the flex dics and driveshaft bolts and I was told they were okay.

    Any ideas? Please help!

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    I'm at a loss here as I can't answer point two. Why it is taking them so long to diagnose it and fix it is beyond me but you have your warranty which is good. Just don't give up on it. You can lemon law it if you have to.

    As to point 1, it is a possibility they were unaware of the issue.

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    Thanks for the reply.

    Do you know the specifics/details of what it takes to qualify for the lemon law issue?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the reply.

    Do you know the specifics/details of what it takes to qualify for the lemon law issue?
    What state are you in?

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    Tennessee

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    Tennessee
    Unfortunately it only applies to new cars looks like: http://tn.gov/consumer/lemon.shtml

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Sticky, do you know of any MB mechanics/technicians who visit/post to this site?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, do you know of any MB mechanics/technicians who visit/post to this site?
    That specifically cater to MB? Don't think we have any MB techs here. I can try to get in contact with one though to help you.

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    Sure, that would be great. Just looking for any input as to what it might be causing the problem.

    Thanks!

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    When they balanced the tires did they notice an imperfection in any of the rims?

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    No, the wheels are perfect.

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    A vibration as you described could be from a number of things that you have not yet mentioned. Since you have ruled out the tire balancing it could still be a tire. A tire with an internal belt defect can cause vibrations at higher speed, at lower speeds it will not be evident. It will only show up at speeds high enough to cause tire and belt expansion so I would check this out. Could also be a drive shaft issue, have them inspect your drive shaft, could be something as simple as a lump of tar or crap stuck to the shaft, driveshaft need to be perfectly balanced so they don't vibrate. Could also be a warped brake rotor, usually more evident under braking but can become more evident on excelration at higher speeds if it is bad enough. I would also reinspect the wheels, make sure they are not bent or damaged, even a very slight ding can cuase vibrations. Last but not least have then check the axles, a slightly bent axle will reslut in vibrations that worsen at higher speeds.

    Good luck, let us know what you figure out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    A vibration as you described could be from a number of things that you have not yet mentioned. Since you have ruled out the tire balancing it could still be a tire. A tire with an internal belt defect can cause vibrations at higher speed, at lower speeds it will not be evident. It will only show up at speeds high enough to cause tire and belt expansion so I would check this out. Could also be a drive shaft issue, have them inspect your drive shaft, could be something as simple as a lump of tar or crap stuck to the shaft, driveshaft need to be perfectly balanced so they don't vibrate. Could also be a warped brake rotor, usually more evident under braking but can become more evident on excelration at higher speeds if it is bad enough. I would also reinspect the wheels, make sure they are not bent or damaged, even a very slight ding can cuase vibrations. Last but not least have then check the axles, a slightly bent axle will reslut in vibrations that worsen at higher speeds.

    Good luck, let us know what you figure out.
    All good examples of what could be wrong. Vibration at certain speeds is surely some sort of balance issue. Bent rims, Drive shaft, Harmonic balancer (felt more in the steering wheel) , Axels, Tires, Rotors ect. Anything that spins pretty much. You said the center or back so I bet Shaft, rims, tires rotors or axels. Any accidents on the car?

    Good luck, please update when fixed and what the problem was. I notice many come for help and then when the problem is fixed they never update the fix.
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  14. #14
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    Thank you all for the suggestions.

    The reason that I don't think that it's the wheels/rotors is that it gets worse with acceleration uphill. The car also seemingly "shudders" at times during acceleration, but especially so going uphill (that is the kicker....it's always worse uphill). And if I perform a kickdown (into a lower gear), it always goes away. So, it's not the speed, per se, it's the specific RPM range in that certain gear (whichever gear it is that the car is in when cruising at around 70 to 80 mph). As I said, it is more pronounced going uphill and sometimes is more than just a vibration, it's a shudder. If I keep it in that speed range, but back off the gas, it gets better, and then when I depress the gas, it comes back, but if I do a kickdown, it's gone. I'd think that if it was a wheel/rotor issue, it would be consistent/constant no matter whether the gas is depressed and wouldn't go away if I kickdown. No?

    Could it be a gear related issue? Meaning that there is something wrong with the transmission, but only that one gear (whichever gear corresponds to 70-80 mph)....would that be 6th?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    Thank you all for the suggestions.

    The reason that I don't think that it's the wheels/rotors is that it gets worse with acceleration uphill. The car also seemingly "shudders" at times during acceleration, but especially so going uphill (that is the kicker....it's always worse uphill). And if I perform a kickdown (into a lower gear), it always goes away. So, it's not the speed, per se, it's the specific RPM range in that certain gear (whichever gear it is that the car is in when cruising at around 70 to 80 mph). As I said, it is more pronounced going uphill and sometimes is more than just a vibration, it's a shudder. If I keep it in that speed range, but back off the gas, it gets better, and then when I depress the gas, it comes back, but if I do a kickdown, it's gone. I'd think that if it was a wheel/rotor issue, it would be consistent/constant no matter whether the gas is depressed and wouldn't go away if I kickdown. No?

    Could it be a gear related issue? Meaning that there is something wrong with the transmission, but only that one gear (whichever gear corresponds to 70-80 mph)....would that be 6th?
    No vibration while in neutral and revving?

    Sounds like rear differential bearing. Could be motor mounts.. could be so much... under load being worse narrows it down.
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  16. #16
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    this happened to my friends audi... Turned out his front subframe was cracked under the car. any cracks in the frame? you already did the motor and tranny mountss so idk what else besides that or tires/rims.

    Goodluck though!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    No vibration while in neutral and revving?

    Sounds like rear differential bearing. Could be motor mounts.. could be so much... under load being worse narrows it down.
    No vibration in neutral and/or revving. No vibration otherwise, only between 70 to 80 mph (roughly).

    I'll ask them to check the transmission control unit and rear differential bearing. I don't believe it is the motor mounts, they checked them and said they looked like new. And from what I understand, motor mounts being bad would lead to shaking/vibration even in neutral or reverse, even at low rpm ranges.

    What a pain in the butt!

    At this rate, I'm not going to get my car back for another month...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    this happened to my friends audi... Turned out his front subframe was cracked under the car. any cracks in the frame? you already did the motor and tranny mountss so idk what else besides that or tires/rims.

    Goodluck though!
    The frame checked out fine.

    Thanks.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    No vibration in neutral and/or revving. No vibration otherwise, only between 70 to 80 mph (roughly).

    I'll ask them to check the transmission control unit and rear differential bearing. I don't believe it is the motor mounts, they checked them and said they looked like new. And from what I understand, motor mounts being bad would lead to shaking/vibration even in neutral or reverse, even at low rpm ranges.

    What a pain in the butt!

    At this rate, I'm not going to get my car back for another month...
    I had my CTSV in and out of the dealer for over a month looking for a vibration once. After looking and looking and looking and changing parts it turned out to be the plastic in the wheel well had a screw missing and when the car reached a certain speed it would pull away from the well and vibrate and at greater speeds it would get worse and rub on the tire. While at a stand still it looked fine. Kudos to the tech who finally figured it out! Sometimes it doesn't even have to be a mechanical part!!
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  20. #20
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    Does it only happen when going up hill or is that just when it seems most pronounced? I'm stumped....
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    It happens even on flat ground, but is much more pronounced when going uphill. And it goes away if I kickdown to a lower gear. Comes back if I ease off the pedal into the prior gear.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    A vibration as you described could be from a number of things that you have not yet mentioned. Since you have ruled out the tire balancing it could still be a tire. A tire with an internal belt defect can cause vibrations at higher speed, at lower speeds it will not be evident. It will only show up at speeds high enough to cause tire and belt expansion so I would check this out. Could also be a drive shaft issue, have them inspect your drive shaft, could be something as simple as a lump of tar or crap stuck to the shaft, driveshaft need to be perfectly balanced so they don't vibrate. Could also be a warped brake rotor, usually more evident under braking but can become more evident on excelration at higher speeds if it is bad enough. I would also reinspect the wheels, make sure they are not bent or damaged, even a very slight ding can cuase vibrations. Last but not least have then check the axles, a slightly bent axle will reslut in vibrations that worsen at higher speeds.

    Good luck, let us know what you figure out.
    Drive shaft is a good suggestion, this is what caused vibration on my Cayenne but it didn't only show up at a certain speed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by airtime23 Click here to enlarge
    It happens even on flat ground, but is much more pronounced when going uphill. And it goes away if I kickdown to a lower gear. Comes back if I ease off the pedal into the prior gear.
    So only a 6th gear issue?

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    I am a Mercedes technician. I have had a cls do this also. I would assume by your description that this is light medium throttle. It is a result of the tq converter locking up at lower rpms. We replaced the engine mounts and transmission mount and tq converter etc. like you have done. We eventually turned off the lock up and could not get it to do it. There is no way to fix this. You could have them try to reset the adaptations and relearn the tq converter lock up. You also should have them check the driveline like suggested and also check the driveshaft angles. A lot of times technicians do not put the shims back in the differential if they have it out and it causes bad vibrations. Does it get better after it has warmed up. This is normally true if it is driveline angle or flex discs.
    Unfortunately these issues are very hard to diagnose. Things are not obviously bad. There is no way to diagnose this sort of issue beyond some basic inspections. And technicians are stuck. We get payed for fixing it. Not trying things. And under warranty Mercedes is very bad about paying the bill for multiple attempts. And this type of problem like I said requires trying things until you get it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whipplem104 Click here to enlarge
    I am a Mercedes technician. I have had a cls do this also. I would assume by your description that this is light medium throttle. It is a result of the tq converter locking up at lower rpms. We replaced the engine mounts and transmission mount and tq converter etc. like you have done. We eventually turned off the lock up and could not get it to do it. There is no way to fix this. You could have them try to reset the adaptations and relearn the tq converter lock up. You also should have them check the driveline like suggested and also check the driveshaft angles. A lot of times technicians do not put the shims back in the differential if they have it out and it causes bad vibrations. Does it get better after it has warmed up. This is normally true if it is driveline angle or flex discs.
    Unfortunately these issues are very hard to diagnose. Things are not obviously bad. There is no way to diagnose this sort of issue beyond some basic inspections. And technicians are stuck. We get payed for fixing it. Not trying things. And under warranty Mercedes is very bad about paying the bill for multiple attempts. And this type of problem like I said requires trying things until you get it.
    Thank you very much.

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