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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPFBranden Click here to enlarge
    C'mon bro really? Posting a conspiracy video as evidence is not proof, it's speculation.
    Facts are in the video. Ur post proves you did not watch the video. Wake up from that sleep you are in.
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    War is Peace(1984 the book showed us what our world could become, and its getting there.)
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Facts are in the video. Ur post proves you did not watch the video. Wake up from that sleep you are in.
    I've seen it at one point...I'll have to rewatch it (I can't watch the video at work)....but I really hope it's more than a quote with no reference or some actual proof and not just a deduction.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPFBranden Click here to enlarge
    C'mon bro really? Posting a conspiracy video as evidence is not proof, it's speculation.
    You are once again turning a blind eye towards the facts. Like many do about the FED. There is once you get a chance to view it
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  5. #30
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    Our country goes to war constantly over stuff that is really none of our business.
    Did our govt go into Irag for oil or some end game security? Probably yes.
    Does our govt have to package a story to tell us so that we say it's okay? Yes.
    I believe that our leaders and thosenpowerful interests have a vested interest in all of these wars/conflicts the US engages in. I believe there are some in the govt that feel it is their duty to protect our country's long term interests around the world and they can justify killing thousands of people both their own and the "enemy" including civilians.
    Then there are those in our govt or positions of power who simply use these wars as a way to line their own pockets and secure their own strength.

    I'm not a soldier and not a dove by any stretch, but I find going to war and killing thousands of people, both civilian and military to be something of absolute last resort and really a sign of failure.
    I firmly believe that negotiations are not given enough of a chance and we must place more emphasis on good diplomats and negotiate with ALL leaders of other nations. Now, I know they are not all a bunch of alter boys, but neither are our leaders, that is a cop out to say we're too good to negotiate with so and so. Let's face it, many of these leaders are very savvy and intelligent people, they're not all a bunch of whack jobs like we like to portray them as.
    They would not be in a position of power if they are insane nut jobs.
    I think our leaders are just quick to war because we can dominate so easily.
    Again, it is failure and laziness to just say, "okay let's bomb 'em"

    If war was like it was in Napolionic times where two sides lined up and killed each other w/o all of the civilian deaths and carnage, that's one thing--soldiers sign up for it, I guess. I guess I find a human life to be more valuable than most. I guess I have too much of a coincense to be a good soldier or killer!
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  6. #31
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    Ron Paul 2012
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    It sure was before compared to now. There was order, and not everyone killing each other.
    My bad, Sadam was a wonderful dictator.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    This is nothing compared to what Stalin did (over 20 million Russians during his Rule died)
    Props for someone mentioning this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    My bad, Sadam was a wonderful dictator.
    Who was fully supported by the US......Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    lol at conspiracy.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Who was fully supported by the US......Click here to enlarge
    Early on.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Early on.
    We actually continued support after finding out about him using chemical warfare on civilians. However, it was shortly after the Iran hostage crisis and we needed someone that was already engaged to keep Irans influence from spreading.
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    When you kill 1 it is a tragedy, when you kill 10 million it is a statistic...

    Saddam Pales in Comparison to all the other dictators that have been around. (I'm not saying the man was perfect, but he was more of a threat to his own people than he was to the United States) We should have left well enough alone. Who says it's our job to police the world?

    Hitler killed 6 million Jews (just because they were Jewish) and yet there are people who still deny that this ever happened (denial is not a river in egypt).
    Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, just for disagreeing with him
    The Europeans Killed many Nations when it claimed the America's (How many native American Nations were their? How Many Millions?)

    Saddam has killed anywhere from 300k to 2,000,000.... Like I said, he Pales in Comparison...

    How many people Died when the Romans conquered the known world?
    How many people Died when Alexander the Great conquered the known world?
    How many people died during the Crusades?

    Why is it we are so concentrated on what one man did, when there are many others who make what he did, look like child's play?
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    When you kill 1 it is a tragedy, when you kill 10 million it is a statistic...

    Saddam Pales in Comparison to all the other dictators that have been around. (I'm not saying the man was perfect, but he was more of a threat to his own people than he was to the United States) We should have left well enough alone. Who says it's our job to police the world?

    Hitler killed 6 million Jews (just because they were Jewish) and yet there are people who still deny that this ever happened (denial is not a river in egypt).
    Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, just for disagreeing with him
    The Europeans Killed many Nations when it claimed the America's (How many native American Nations were their? How Many Millions?)

    Saddam has killed anywhere from 300k to 2,000,000.... Like I said, he Pales in Comparison...

    How many people Died when the Romans conquered the known world?
    How many people Died when Alexander the Great conquered the known world?
    How many people died during the Crusades?

    Why is it we are so concentrated on what one man did, when there are many others who make what he did, look like child's play?
    +1. Saddam was in the man. Then something happened to the relationship. Then Saddam said I'm going to stop selling oil in dollars. BAMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm rape
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    When you kill 1 it is a tragedy, when you kill 10 million it is a statistic...

    Saddam Pales in Comparison to all the other dictators that have been around. (I'm not saying the man was perfect, but he was more of a threat to his own people than he was to the United States) We should have left well enough alone. Who says it's our job to police the world?

    Hitler killed 6 million Jews (just because they were Jewish) and yet there are people who still deny that this ever happened (denial is not a river in egypt).
    Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, just for disagreeing with him
    The Europeans Killed many Nations when it claimed the America's (How many native American Nations were their? How Many Millions?)

    Saddam has killed anywhere from 300k to 2,000,000.... Like I said, he Pales in Comparison...

    How many people Died when the Romans conquered the known world?
    How many people Died when Alexander the Great conquered the known world?
    How many people died during the Crusades?

    Why is it we are so concentrated on what one man did, when there are many others who make what he did, look like child's play?
    How many people die is irrelevant when you're talking about ethnic cleansing, it won't stop until someone puts a stop to it. There isn't anything that says Saddam would have stopped killing innocents, if you notice there is no real death toll, so there is no telling how many people he actually killed. Its a massive range from 300K to 2million. Are you saying we should turn a blind eye to someone who killed up to 2 million people? Someone has to step up and deal with it, we tend to be the most capable and willing.
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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPFBranden Click here to enlarge
    Are you saying we should turn a blind eye to someone who killed up to 2 million people?
    A blind eye, no, not quite... But realize from my numbers, since we've been there an additional 1.03 Million Iraqi's have died... We may have contributed, (based off the wide number 300k - 2 mil) either more Iraqi's deaths than Saddam himself committed or 50% less.

    I have to ask this question though: Who is the greater evil? The Dictator or the Saviors? There are two answers, If Saddam actually killed 2 million Iraqi's during his reign of Terror, than it is the Dictator who is the greater of the two evils. But if the answer is The Saviors are the greater evil, if it turns out that 'WE' as the Saviors of Iraqi have killed more Iraqi's in 10 years than he did in 20-30 years, then it is WE who are the greater evil, no matter how much we cling to the mantra that we were doing the Iraqi's a favor by ridding them of this dictator and fighting a never ending war on terrorism... Think on that for a while. I know my Active Duty Soldiers who have fought over there, lost friends, limbs and other probably think I'm $#@! for saying the above... I am an Active duty Soldier, and it's my opinion (but I've never been deployed, so I can't say I know whats it's like over there)

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPFBranden Click here to enlarge
    Someone has to step up and deal with it, we tend to be the most capable and willing.
    Why is it that it's always the United States that has to step up and deal with it? Why didn't China? They have a military that is as powerful (if not more powerful than our own). I know this could turn into a Democratic / Communist argument, and it shouldn't. WHy should we have to drain our country Financially to fight a war that will never end? Why should the people have to suffer because we want to butt our heads into everyones business? 14.1 Trillion Dollars in Debt and ever rising... Almost 2 trillion dollars in debt to China (yes China, the ones who have a military as strong as ours) all to finance two wars (one which should have never started), and to continue giving welfare to those who don't deserve it, to pay foreign countries to be our friends (while secretly they stab us in the back), continue to pay countries for the right to provide them with our weapons... I'm gonna stop...
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  17. #42
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    lots of know it alls itt

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    The United States will always have their hands in the middle east, not because of dictators, not because of Islam, not because of terrorism. It's because of Israel, helping them create a country after the 2nd world war, financed, and backed their wars, and as always turned away when Israel did their own thing there. (Wished they had given that type of support to Poland instead of selling them out to Stalin but that's another story).

    All the Arab countries hate us, we have no friends there, pretty much every single war that happened there the USA had their fingers in it. From Iran to Iraq to Afghanistan and Pakistan. The USA are so deep in it I don't see how they can get out of it now. Right now they have to do anything and everything in their power to not lose control in Iraq or some Ayatollah will overthrow the puppet government and pledge war against the USA while sitting on top of probably some of the biggest oil fields in the region. And as far as Afghanistan.....hell I have even less of an idea of what to do with them but nothing good will ever come out of that country. Not in our lifetime or anybody else's, that country is $#@!ed till the end of time.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    When you kill 1 it is a tragedy, when you kill 10 million it is a statistic...

    Saddam Pales in Comparison to all the other dictators that have been around. (I'm not saying the man was perfect, but he was more of a threat to his own people than he was to the United States) We should have left well enough alone. Who says it's our job to police the world?

    Hitler killed 6 million Jews (just because they were Jewish) and yet there are people who still deny that this ever happened (denial is not a river in egypt).
    Stalin killed 20 million of his own people, just for disagreeing with him
    The Europeans Killed many Nations when it claimed the America's (How many native American Nations were their? How Many Millions?)

    Saddam has killed anywhere from 300k to 2,000,000.... Like I said, he Pales in Comparison...

    How many people Died when the Romans conquered the known world?
    How many people Died when Alexander the Great conquered the known world?
    How many people died during the Crusades?

    Why is it we are so concentrated on what one man did, when there are many others who make what he did, look like child's play?
    seriously, you're comparing the number of people he killed as a means of justifying a war or not?

    It only takes one, one innocent civilian killed by your own leader to justify an invasion, what if that one was your mother; wouldnt you want another country to help?
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    seriously, you're comparing the number of people he killed as a means of justifying a war or not?
    No I am not, others are using the number of people he killed as a justification of a war or not, I'm just pointing out that, compared to Stalin who killed 20 Million, we did not go to war with them over it. Yes we had a 'Cold War' but no actual conflict. Numbers don't justify a war... Hell if Japan never attacked us at Pearl Harbor, we might never have gotten involved in WWII, and Nazi Germany would probably still be around today, but that's besides the point.

    We had no legitimate reason for going to Iraq or starting that conflict, we should have stayed in Afghanistan and completed the mission to the fullest there, instead of waging this two front war. Once we were done there, then maybe looked towards correcting the issues in Iran, Iraq or another country, but this fighting two wars (one needless and one vital) has drained this country and lined the pockets of the elite.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    it only takes one, one innocent civilian killed by your own leader to justify an invasion, what if that one was your mother; wouldnt you want another country to help?
    Not sure what you mean... Innocent civilians are killed in this country everyday, does anybody invade us (a little dark humor coming), Maybe the Mexicans are invading, but that's about it... But they aren't waging a war and killing millions of our people (although the drug trade and war is). If my mother was killed by my countries leader to be honest I would want my own people to help me, not some other country, it's not their business... If I die in the process of seeking revenge so be it, but I don't want another country fighting my war... It's MY WAR for a reason, and MY WAR has been waging to THOUSANDS of years, at least 700 years before the United States was even a pipe dream. Why should an upstart country get involved in MY WAR... They have no business in it...

    My .02 cents.
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Not sure what you mean... Innocent civilians are killed in this country everyday,
    Yea no $#@!? but how many of the innocent people that die in our country were actively killed by our leader? I guess you missed my point.
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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Yea no $#@!? but how many of the innocent people that die in our country were actively killed by our leader? I guess you missed my point.
    IDK, our shared government doesn't post 'statistics' on how many people (innocent until proven guilty) our 'leader' kills (Whether Directly or Indirectly)... Then again, we change leaders every 4 - 8 years, so it's not like a dictator who's in power for a year, or ten or twenty or thirty... But as I've stated before in the last 10 years, we as a country have killed 1,033,000 Iraqi's (whether they were innocent or not IDK). So between Two presidents, thats approximately 5,016,000 Iraqi's each (although I'm sure more was killed during GWB jr.'s reign than the current CnC)
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    A blind eye, no, not quite... But realize from my numbers, since we've been there an additional 1.03 Million Iraqi's have died... We may have contributed, (based off the wide number 300k - 2 mil) either more Iraqi's deaths than Saddam himself committed or 50% less.

    I have to ask this question though: Who is the greater evil? The Dictator or the Saviors? There are two answers, If Saddam actually killed 2 million Iraqi's during his reign of Terror, than it is the Dictator who is the greater of the two evils. But if the answer is The Saviors are the greater evil, if it turns out that 'WE' as the Saviors of Iraqi have killed more Iraqi's in 10 years than he did in 20-30 years, then it is WE who are the greater evil, no matter how much we cling to the mantra that we were doing the Iraqi's a favor by ridding them of this dictator and fighting a never ending war on terrorism... Think on that for a while. I know my Active Duty Soldiers who have fought over there, lost friends, limbs and other probably think I'm $#@! for saying the above... I am an Active duty Soldier, and it's my opinion (but I've never been deployed, so I can't say I know whats it's like over there)



    Why is it that it's always the United States that has to step up and deal with it? Why didn't China? They have a military that is as powerful (if not more powerful than our own). I know this could turn into a Democratic / Communist argument, and it shouldn't. WHy should we have to drain our country Financially to fight a war that will never end? Why should the people have to suffer because we want to butt our heads into everyones business? 14.1 Trillion Dollars in Debt and ever rising... Almost 2 trillion dollars in debt to China (yes China, the ones who have a military as strong as ours) all to finance two wars (one which should have never started), and to continue giving welfare to those who don't deserve it, to pay foreign countries to be our friends (while secretly they stab us in the back), continue to pay countries for the right to provide them with our weapons... I'm gonna stop...
    What would everyone be posting here if we were invaded and 1.3 million died? I think they would be up in arms as well. Everyone needs to put themselves in the shoes of those living in Iraq. I know for a fact from Iraqis I have met who left Iraq after the USA went in for WMD's its not better. Extreme Islam has taken over the country. Now you get killed for what you believe in over there. That wasn't the case with Saddam. Its Church services that we held in churches have stopped because of bombing, and beheadings. Same thing for other sects of Islam. People here need to get their heads out of the sand/asses.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    It sure was before compared to now. There was order, and not everyone killing each other.
    Well, I'd agree there was "order."... and the order was to kill large groups of people who Saddam felt as threatening.

    Propaganda is an understatement for that video. Next up, vid of beautiful Juarez, lol.

    Agreed, we went in for the wrong reasons. We should have went in for the sole purpose of outing a genocidal killer.

    Try google the al-Anfal campaign and the Halabja poison gas massacre. There's no doubt he used chemical weapons to kill nearly 200,000 families and children during that campaign... so what? I suppose he must have ran out of gas cuz we couldn't find any after that.

    Nah, maybe you're right, we should've stayed home and minded our business. After all, we have no relation to those people. For that matter, probably should've stayed out of Europe in WWII. Whatever Germany was doing wasn't close enough to home, either. Right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
    Well, I'd agree there was "order."... and the order was to kill large groups of people who Saddam felt as threatening.

    Propaganda is an understatement for that video. Next up, vid of beautiful Juarez, lol.

    Agreed, we went in for the wrong reasons. We should have went in for the sole purpose of outing a genocidal killer.

    Try google the al-Anfal campaign and the Halabja poison gas massacre. There's no doubt he used chemical weapons to kill nearly 200,000 families and children during that campaign... so what? I suppose he must have ran out of gas cuz we couldn't find any after that.

    Nah, maybe you're right, we should've stayed home and minded our business. After all, we have no relation to those people. For that matter, probably should've stayed out of Europe in WWII. Whatever Germany was doing wasn't close enough to home, either. Right?
    How much better is it now? The Iraqis would have killed him themselves over time. As a matter of fact they tried, hence why Saddam and people who looked like him roaming Iraq to confuse them. It shouldn't be our job to get involved in every world event. Iraq is screwed. During the civil war here in the US the UK wanted to get involved by backing the south. The Czar of Russia told the UK if you get involved we will send ships and block you. Countries at times need to mind their business. The reason we were attacked on 9-11 is because we are everywhere. If we had foreign armed forces with bases all over the US I'm sure many would be unhappy here. Remove the mote from the eye.
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