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  1. #1
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    History Repeats itself, the Debt Ceiling during FDR's time

    I found this interesting article, and thought i would share it. Discuss if you want. And if you don't want... Blah:

    At times of national fiscal crisis, President Franklin Roosevelt ever so firmly believed, you dont give the awesomely affluent a free pass. You pound them and then you pound them some more.

    By Sam PizzigatiAgainst a Congress where zealously rich people-friendly conservatives hold the upper hand, how much can a President of the United States committed to greater equality realistically hope to accomplish?The answer from todays White House: not much. Advocacy for equality has to take a backseat, Obama administration insiders insist, once fanatical friends of the fortunate in Congress recklessly put at risk our nations full faith and credit.But history offers another alternative. Back in 1943, halfway through World War II, a President of the United States confronted a debt ceiling crisis eerily similar to our own. That President, Franklin Roosevelt, faced a congressional opposition to inconveniencing the rich with higher taxes every bit as rabid as ours.FDRs choice, in the face of this opposition? He doubled down on equality.... continued here: http://toomuchonline.org/debt-ceiling-history-fdr-way/

    Enjoy
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  2. #2
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    They are fvcking us with the new 12 person congress they just formed out of thin air without going to the people for permission to form it. Ron Paul 2012 or fvcking Revolution
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Holy $#@! the whole 'super-committee' thing is actually in effect?? WTF
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    *also interesting article. I had no idea that was even possible
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    They are fvcking us with the new 12 person congress they just formed out of thin air without going to the people for permission to form it. Ron Paul 2012 or fvcking Revolution
    A political Revolution is needed... But until the 'people' realize this, it won't happen. I'd estimate that nearly half the pop. of the united states is too stupid to realize what's going on. While 25% know exactly whats going on, and the other 25% is happy the way it is. Until that 50% gets smart and figures out they are really getting fvcked in the ass, it's going to be hard to advocate anything in regards to change... Too many corrupt politicians to effect any real change...
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    http://toomuchonline.org/for-top-400-taxpayers-a-near-record-year/

    M
    ore fuel for the fire.

    Don't get me wrong, there is NOTHING wrong with being rich, but if you are making on average 110-270 million a year, you know god damn well, your not spending that much every year, nor are you taking it with you when you die... 18.1% in taxes on 110 million, comes to about 19 million. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Even if they paid 50% income tax, they would still have $55-$135 million dollars take home pay. That's still a LOT of MONEY.

    Now compare that to the 18% that I pay on $36,000, that comes out to $6,480 a year in taxes. Now lets say 90% of the population (280,800,000) makes on average 55k a year, times 18% = 2,779,920,000,000... $#@! that's 2.8 trillion dollars just by taxing everyone 18%.... Now lets take the 400 richest who make on average $150,000,000 x 400 x 18% = 10,800,000,000... A measly 10.8 billion dollars in taxes...

    I know my numbers aren't 100% accurate, but it shows the huge difference... On average the majority of the population of the united states, low and middle income pay 2.8 trillion in taxes, while the richest pay only 10 billion... No wonder the rich are getting richer, and the poor, poorer... And of that 2.8 trillion the 'people' are paying goes to the tax breaks the rich and the corporations get... WHy the fvck does a company make 10 billion dollars and get a 7 million dollar tax refund? WTF is that... Anyway...
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    Plus 1
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    effing rediculous. Im all about making money for yourself, but the loopholes have to stop. You cant do anything with that much money. Sure you could go buy the most expensive house in the USA right now, but next year you will make another 170 million. ANd the year after that..and after that. So what do you do with all this money when you die? It seems like little rich $#@! kids have Darwin as their father and anyone Ive known who inherited money ended up losing it all or becoming a druggie.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    http://toomuchonline.org/for-top-400-taxpayers-a-near-record-year/

    M
    ore fuel for the fire.

    Don't get me wrong, there is NOTHING wrong with being rich, but if you are making on average 110-270 million a year, you know god damn well, your not spending that much every year, nor are you taking it with you when you die... 18.1% in taxes on 110 million, comes to about 19 million. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Even if they paid 50% income tax, they would still have $55-$135 million dollars take home pay. That's still a LOT of MONEY.

    Now compare that to the 18% that I pay on $36,000, that comes out to $6,480 a year in taxes. Now lets say 90% of the population (280,800,000) makes on average 55k a year, times 18% = 2,779,920,000,000... $#@! that's 2.8 trillion dollars just by taxing everyone 18%.... Now lets take the 400 richest who make on average $150,000,000 x 400 x 18% = 10,800,000,000... A measly 10.8 billion dollars in taxes...

    I know my numbers aren't 100% accurate, but it shows the huge difference... On average the majority of the population of the united states, low and middle income pay 2.8 trillion in taxes, while the richest pay only 10 billion... No wonder the rich are getting richer, and the poor, poorer... And of that 2.8 trillion the 'people' are paying goes to the tax breaks the rich and the corporations get... WHy the fvck does a company make 10 billion dollars and get a 7 million dollar tax refund? WTF is that... Anyway...
    I see what you are saying but you should know your hypothetical numbers are inaccurate. Of course, we don't all pay fixed taxes here. In actuality, the top 1% of income earners in the US pay 29% of all taxes, the top 5% pay almost 50% of all taxes. It is true that any tax breaks will have greater benefit for the higher income earners, but only because they pay a very disproportionate share of taxes. This is the progressive taxing flaw.

    Another kink in your scenario is that you assume everyone pays taxes in this country. Do you know what percentage of the population pays NO net taxes?? Figure that into your scenario with progressive taxing and you'll find your results completely flipped.

  10. #10
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    Most of the average population makes under 30k a year. A large percentage of them make only 12-15k a year. NY just has high standards of living...I could get by VERY comfortably on what I make here, down in NC or something like that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    http://toomuchonline.org/for-top-400-taxpayers-a-near-record-year/

    M
    ore fuel for the fire.

    Don't get me wrong, there is NOTHING wrong with being rich, but if you are making on average 110-270 million a year, you know god damn well, your not spending that much every year, nor are you taking it with you when you die... 18.1% in taxes on 110 million, comes to about 19 million. That's a drop in the bucket for them. Even if they paid 50% income tax, they would still have $55-$135 million dollars take home pay. That's still a LOT of MONEY.

    Now compare that to the 18% that I pay on $36,000, that comes out to $6,480 a year in taxes. Now lets say 90% of the population (280,800,000) makes on average 55k a year, times 18% = 2,779,920,000,000... $#@! that's 2.8 trillion dollars just by taxing everyone 18%.... Now lets take the 400 richest who make on average $150,000,000 x 400 x 18% = 10,800,000,000... A measly 10.8 billion dollars in taxes...

    I know my numbers aren't 100% accurate, but it shows the huge difference... On average the majority of the population of the united states, low and middle income pay 2.8 trillion in taxes, while the richest pay only 10 billion... No wonder the rich are getting richer, and the poor, poorer... And of that 2.8 trillion the 'people' are paying goes to the tax breaks the rich and the corporations get... WHy the fvck does a company make 10 billion dollars and get a 7 million dollar tax refund? WTF is that... Anyway...
    If you tax the richest 400 100% taxes, that will only generate 60 billion. So if you give that extra 50 billion back to the lower 90% of the population, all 280,000,000 of us, that means that we each get $178 back.


    Woohoo, we just charged the richest 400 people 100% income tax, and the rest of us only have to pay $178 dollars less. We aren't going to fix anything this way.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
    I see what you are saying but you should know your hypothetical numbers are inaccurate. Of course, we don't all pay fixed taxes here. In actuality, the top 1% of income earners in the US pay 29% of all taxes, the top 5% pay almost 50% of all taxes. It is true that any tax breaks will have greater benefit for the higher income earners, but only because they pay a very disproportionate share of taxes. This is the progressive taxing flaw.

    Another kink in your scenario is that you assume everyone pays taxes in this country. Do you know what percentage of the population pays NO net taxes?? Figure that into your scenario with progressive taxing and you'll find your results completely flipped.
    I was generalizing. I know some people don't pay taxes, and most of those who do pay taxes get a tax refund in the same amount, so it virtually looks like they aren't paying taxes. I realize that, and that's the problem. We pay taxes, but at the end of the year we get it all back... SO we essentially loan our money to the government at 0% interest and get it back at the end of the year... Creating more debt... I know I know, this is way off...

    Lets use myself as an example, which is probably a bad example, but none the less. I made $75k last year. Of that $75k, only $36k was taxable income. Of that 36k in taxable income I paid close to 6k in taxes. When I did my taxes I got close to 6k back in refunds... So what was the point of me paying 6k in taxes to begin with? The government should have kept my 6k, instead of taking an interest free loan from me (yeah I know they 'invest' that 6k and made a hundred in interest, and sent me back only what they borrowed). I know my numbers are skewed, that's not the point, the point is our government is so ass backwards when it comes to finances...

    YOu have a loan, you know you need to pay it back, and yet you borrow more and more and more money... Now you owe more than you can afford... If it was you or me, we would go bankrupt, loose our assets and probably go homeless, but when the government does it, they just create more debt to pay off the debt they have already, and fvck the consequences...
    Who cares if the lower and middle class have to suffer, who cares if the vets who fought, lost an arm, leg or their vision for this country don't get a pension, who cares if the military families of those who are supporting their loved ones who are deployed don't get a paycheck and can't pay for groceries, or their rent or mortgage, who cares if you can't get Social Security... Not our government thats for damn sure...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by metrik Click here to enlarge
    If you tax the richest 400 100% taxes, that will only generate 60 billion. So if you give that extra 50 billion back to the lower 90% of the population, all 280,000,000 of us, that means that we each get $178 back.


    Woohoo, we just charged the richest 400 people 100% income tax, and the rest of us only have to pay $178 dollars less. We aren't going to fix anything this way.
    Stop giving money to foreign countries because all we are doing is buying our enemies, stop giving welfare to those who aren't interested in doing any real work, Stop giving welfare to illegals. IF they don't become a citizen within a year, work a legit job and pay taxes, kick them out, send them back home, DEPORT them. Close our borders off (more so then they already are). America should be about America, not about the whole f'ing world. We want to solve every other countries economic & social problems, but we can't seem to solve our own problems here at home... WTF is that all about?

    Sorry... I know I don't know much in regards to all of this, but it's simple, your in debt, pay it off and move on. But that's the problem, our government doesn't know how to pay the debt and they create more trying to figure out how to pay it... This country was great at one point, and in many regards it still is, but when it comes to this government, that's not our shining example of greatness anymore... We need change, I don't care who brings it, as long as it's a step in the right direction, something our forefathers could be proud of again...

    A government for the people, by the people... Not, For the Politicians, by the Corporations.
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  13. #13
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    They're making unfunded appropriations, it's not rocket science. You need to either raise taxes to fund them or slash the programs. But since both are political suicide they use the tried-and-true inflation tax (printing money) which primarily affects the middle class since the banksters get use of the money before it's devalued and creditors and savers get burnt.

    Here's what i'm reading right now, very informative about Fed lending since 2000: http://english.economicpolicyjournal...big-banks.html

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    I was talkin to my boss about this today. Hes pretty well versed in this stuff, and his way about doing it is (in laymans terms) is to cut 1% from the spending every year...the overall budget. After 5 years of savings you will be able to pay back 70% of the debt we have incrued.


    Something along those lines....Im a zombie right now and I cant remember half of what he said..dammit.

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