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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V12Godspeed Click here to enlarge
    You hit the nail in the head...How do you gain so much??? it justs didnt add up for me...and it's ok, it doesnt have to.

    At the end of the day it's SGC's car and he does as he pleases. If he chooses not to disclose any power adders, it's his decision. Life goes on.
    i agree with what your saying but thats not how this went down, if this gentlemen chose not to tell the community anything it would be ok,but to mis represent your mods to the community isnt right in my opinion. Others with similar cars will try and figure out why they are off by 10mph with the same mods.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V12Godspeed Click here to enlarge
    At the end of the day it's SGC's car and he does as he pleases. If he chooses not to disclose any power adders, it's his decision. Life goes on.
    True, his car and his decision and he can do what he wants. Just like we are free to analyze it and say what we want to about it.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    if this gentlemen chose not to tell the community anything it would be ok,but to mis represent your mods to the community isnt right in my opinion.
    I agree with this completely. If you want to keep your mouth shut that is one thing, but to deceive people? That is something else.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    True, his car and his decision and he can do what he wants. Just like we are free to analyze it and say what we want to about it.
    Couldnt agree more...

  5. #30
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    Ooops, sorry I missed this thread.... looks like I'm late to the party.

    Before I begin, I'm going to break down my reasoning into a few different sections; please note that these points are all based on my opinion, personal experience with Steve, and natural way of thinking when analyzing such situations, so not everyone may agree with them.

    First, I know Steve personally and he is a straight forward person. He is the type of person that would tell you straight to your face "YES I AM USING NITROUS" and would tell you exactly how much he was using. In addition, someone I trust was with him once at a drag event last year and did briefly check out his car and confirm there was no nitrous.

    Second, the increase in trap speed doesn't necessarily mean he used nitrous. It does show there was either power added or weight lost but does NOT automatically correlates to nitrous. And with today's complex electronic management systems, things are not always as straight forward as they once were back in the days. For example, one could use a bigger shot of nitrous and trap lower in the 1/4 mile as has happened with Keith's car and a few others. There are too many factors that go into the equation nowadays. In general, higher trap may not automatically equal nitrous.

    Third, a person who uses nitrous then denies it or hides it would not leave his hood open at every single event for everyone to see, and he would most definitely not let other people photograph/video-graph his car so freely. He could easily leave his hood closed or park the car at an exclusive place or at the very least attempt to hide the nitrous lines from public view. Steve has done the opposite. Not only has he invited people to examine his car, but he has offered $20k for someone to go examine his car and prove he has nitrous LIVE at the track. Basically a put up or shut up offer.

    Fourth, if anyone is "so sure" he used nitrous, why not fly to Florida (all expenses paid) and receive a check for $20k. Heck even if you go and come back in two days, that would still be $10k a day.... not a bad investment if you ask me Click here to enlarge especially for a "sure investment".

    EDIT: Fifth, I'm going to change the thread title from:

    "Renntech CL65 AMG overall Mercedes 1/4 mile record actually set with nitrous despite claims otherwise?"
    to
    "SGC CL65 AMG overall Mercedes 1/4 mile record possibly set with nitrous despite claims otherwise?"

    Since we do NOT know for sure, we should not be stating so authoritatively (at least) until someone takes the $20k challenge and prove other wise.
    Last edited by Exeenom; 06-03-2011 at 08:44 PM.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Ooops, sorry I missed this thread.... looks like I'm late to the party.
    Was wondering where you were... Need to spend less time on MBW and more time here where the real action is Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Second, the increase in trap speed doesn't necessarily mean he used nitrous. It does show there was either power added or weight lost but does NOT automatically correlates to nitrous
    It does correlate more with an increase in power. Where that power is coming from is the main question as the disparity is HUGE.

    I don't see someone being able to pull enough weight from a CL65 to do that.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Third, a person who uses nitrous then denies it or hides it would not leave his hood open at every single event for everyone to see, and he would most definitely not let other people photograph/video-graph his car so freely.
    If he knew someone from the board would go to the track he would likely close the hood if trying to hide.

    That was a video someone randomly picked up that he didn't know about, correct? If so, he may have been caught with his pants down so to speak.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Was wondering where you were... Need to spend less time on MBW and more time here where the real action is Click here to enlarge
    I actually haven't been spending time on mbworld either.... been having internet/server problems at work and the whole place was in a panic, so been extremely busy Click here to enlarge The reason I created that post was because someone alerted me to it and I had to do it from a friend's computer.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It does correlate more with an increase in power. Where that power is coming from is the main question as the disparity is HUGE. I don't see someone being able to pull enough weight from a CL65 to do that.
    Actually, you could drop the CL65 weight by about 400 lbs of static weight, which could yield about 3 mph in the 1/4 mile.... then you could drop another 100 lbs of rotating weight and that could easily yield another 2 mph, so there's 6 mph only in weight savings. Some may say that is not significant, but to me that is a GOOD amount.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If he knew someone from the board would go to the track he would likely close the hood if trying to hide.

    That was a video someone randomly picked up that he didn't know about, correct? If so, he may have been caught with his pants down so to speak.
    If he wanted to hide it, then he would not let anybody near the car let alone someone with a video camera going around the car a few times. In fact, he would not let any crowd near the car whether they were looking at the car with hood closed or hood open because everyone (nowadays) knows that if there is a video camera involved, the footage will eventually go on YouTube.
    Last edited by Exeenom; 06-03-2011 at 08:51 PM.
    2007 E63 P30
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    If he wanted to hide it, then he would not let anybody near the car let alone someone with a video camera going around the car a few times.
    See, I don't necessarily agree with this as he likely never expected this video to surface or for that to be someone who would know he was on MBW, etc. He may have been away from the car and whatnot at the time just having it cooling down with the hood up.

    The fact is there are lines there and it does appear to be that the fuel lines are tapped. Additionally, there is a trap speed disparity and this was done in positive DA which nitrous somewhat negates. The pieces do fit although I also do trust your opinion of people.

    This is one of those situations where people need to come to their own conclusion. Mine is that there is more going on than what we have been told.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    See, I don't necessarily agree with this as he likely never expected this video to surface or for that to be someone who would know he was on MBW, etc. He may have been away from the car and whatnot at the time just having it cooling down with the hood up.

    The fact is there are lines there and it does appear to be that the fuel lines are tapped. Additionally, there is a trap speed disparity and this was done in positive DA which nitrous somewhat negates. The pieces do fit although I also do trust your opinion of people.

    This is one of those situations where people need to come to their own conclusion. Mine is that there is more going on than what we have been told.
    Sorry, I edited my previous two posts to answer all your questions at once, so there maybe some comments that you haven't seen.

    Steve have invited people to go examine his car for free in the past so many times and except for a couple of local guys, no one took him on his offer. He always leaves his hood open for everyone to see. There is no chance that he didn't know someone would go look or photograph it because he's been begging people to go examine the car. And since he's been continuously accused of using nitrous in the past 3 years or so, it would be very unlikely that he would leave the hood open and walk away from the car if he wanted to hide it.

    But like I said, this is only my opinion, and everyone is free to believe it or not. This is what I like about this site.... the discussion is always open for someone to state their opinions freely. I'm sure someone will eventually take Steve on his offer and go pick up a $20k check Click here to enlarge
    2007 E63 P30
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Steve have invited people to go examine his car for free in the past so many times and except for a couple of local guys, no one took him on his offer
    It's a good bluff and now in retrospect it can be referenced. It certainly doesn't explain the trap speed disparity and it certainly does not prove those lines are not for nitrous.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    And since he's been continuously accused of using nitrous in the past 3 years or so, it would be very unlikely that he would leave the hood open and walk away from the car if he wanted to hide it.
    Once again, I don't think he was expecting anyone to film or for this video to get out into the open. If was I trying to hide something I would hide it from people I knew were looking for it. He likely didn't suspect someone would get a video of his engine bay and that it would appear on Mercedes forums.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    But like I said, this is only my opinion, and everyone is free to believe it or not. This is what I like about this site.... the discussion is always open for someone to state their opinions freely. I'm sure someone will eventually take Steve on his offer and go pick up a $20k check
    Exactly, free to disagree.

    I think that is a good bluff as well.

    I don't understand why his car is magical and does things with the stock turbos others can't? 7-9 mph is not driving and in positive DA? Does not add up for me.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's a good bluff and now in retrospect it can be referenced. It certainly doesn't explain the trap speed disparity and it certainly does not prove those lines are not for nitrous.
    But it equally does not prove that he was using nitrous either. Also, I'm not sure how it is a bluff if a couple of people actually took him up on his offer and checked out his car in the past couple of years without finding anything?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Once again, I don't think he was expecting anyone to film or for this video to get out into the open. If was I trying to hide something I would hide it from people I knew were looking for it. He likely didn't suspect someone would get a video of his engine bay and that it would appear on Mercedes forums.
    See that's what I don't understand.... if everytime he runs, he has been accused of using nitrous and he has invited people many times to look at his car, then he would most definitely be expecting "someone" to come snooping around examining his car or at least be curious about it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think that is a good bluff as well.
    If you think it is a "good" bluff then you can easily make $20k without losing a penny out of your own pocket by simply calling the bluff. A bluff is no good if everyone knows it's a bluff because they will call it. In this situation, people think it's a bluff but don't want to call it :shrug-confusion:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't understand why his car is magical and does things with the stock turbos others can't? 7-9 mph is not driving and in positive DA? Does not add up for me.
    You have to remember that RENNtech worked its magic on Steve's car. They spent a lot of time perfecting the times for that car and not many companies can do the same. So if their mods are able to gain a consistant 8 mph gain than others, more power to them. Look at the situation with MHP's C63s.... their heavily modified cars are trapping at least 8 mph more (naturally aspirated) than non MHP cars. It's not a coincidence.... they've spent a lot of time perfecting the times for the C63 platform. Here's another thing that doesn't make a lot of sense.... The quickest/fastest car from MHP's NOS car (DadsC63) which is equipped with 160 shot of NOS traps only 3.2 mph more than their quickest/fastest naturally aspirated car :eek:
    2007 E63 P30
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    You have to remember that RENNtech worked its magic on Steve's car. They spent a lot of time perfecting the times for that car and not many companies can do the same. So if their mods are able to gain a consistant 8 mph gain than others, more power to them.
    Good points! However I was under the impression that this renntech 65 was trapping 7mph faster than any other renntech 65 with similar mods. Is this not correct?

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    But it equally does not prove that he was using nitrous either. Also, I'm not sure how it is a bluff if a couple of people actually took him up on his offer and checked out his car in the past couple of years without finding anything?
    But something was found, lines were found in a video somebody made that was not "officially" following up on his challenge, correct?

    It does not prove the nitrous, but it certainly is evidence in support of it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    See that's what I don't understand.... if everytime he runs, he has been accused of using nitrous and he has invited people many times to look at his car, then he would most definitely be expecting "someone" to come snooping around examining his car or at least be curious about it.
    If someone said, "Hey, I'm coming down to check your car out" then likely he would hide the evidence or maybe not even be available. This happened when he was unaware.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    If you think it is a "good" bluff then you can easily make $20k without losing a penny out of your own pocket by simply calling the bluff. A bluff is no good if everyone knows it's a bluff because they will call it. In this situation, people think it's a bluff but don't want to call it :shrug-confusion:
    Guy lives on the other side of the country, not much I can do. I can tell you I would have no problem following up on this if he was in SoCal.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    You have to remember that RENNtech worked its magic on Steve's car. They spent a lot of time perfecting the times for that car and not many companies can do the same. So if their mods are able to gain a consistant 8 mph gain than others, more power to them. Look at the situation with MHP's C63s.... their heavily modified cars are trapping at least 8 mph more (naturally aspirated) than non MHP cars. It's not a coincidence.... they've spent a lot of time perfecting the times for the C63 platform. Here's another thing that doesn't make a lot of sense.... The quickest/fastest car from MHP's NOS car (DadsC63) which is equipped with 160 shot of NOS traps only 3.2 mph more than their quickest/fastest naturally aspirated car :eek:
    But the cars already trapping in the high 120's are turbo limited?

    8 mph is basically 100 whp. Where is it coming from? Not carbon brakes.

    The MHP car with the big shot of nitrous was working through torque transmission and torque limiter issues as I recall, so theoretically it still stands to improve greatly since the nitrous isn't even showing the full potential yet.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    Good points! However I was under the impression that this renntech 65 was trapping 7mph faster than any other renntech 65 with similar mods. Is this not correct?
    This is exactly what is puzzling.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    Good points! However I was under the impression that this renntech 65 was trapping 7mph faster than any other renntech 65 with similar mods. Is this not correct?
    No that is NOT correct. There is no RENNtech 65 that has gotten the mods or treatment that Steve's car has. Steve pushes his car to the limits, many of RENNtech's 65 owners don't go that far - not even close.
    2007 E63 P30
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    No that is NOT correct. There is no RENNtech 65 that has gotten the mods or treatment that Steve's car has. Steve pushes his car to the limits, many of RENNtech's 65 owners don't go that far - not even close.
    But what is the difference? Race gas tune and carbon brakes?

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But something was found, lines were found in a video somebody made that was not "officially" following up on his challenge, correct?
    The lines were not just found now or with the appearance of that video.... those lines have been on the car and talked about for the past 2+ years, they are NOT new.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It does not prove the nitrous, but it certainly is evidence in support of it.
    It supports the "possibility" of nitrous but not it's use so still very inconclusive.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If someone said, "Hey, I'm coming down to check your car out" then likely he would hide the evidence or maybe not even be available. This happened when he was unaware.
    Nope.... like I said before, at least 2 people actually took up his offer and went to check out his car. Also, we can set it up so that it would be at the 1/4 mile track. Check the car and run right after - this way we avoid any confusion.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Guy lives on the other side of the country, not much I can do. I can tell you I would have no problem following up on this if he was in SoCal.
    A trip to Florida and back can take a day or two at most and cost $500.... but why go this far, we can easily have one of the many car enthusiasts in Florida do it for us.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But the cars already trapping in the high 120's are turbo limited?
    I don't understand what you mean by that comment? Marko's car trapped 130 mph with stock turbos.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    8 mph is basically 100 whp. Where is it coming from? Not carbon brakes.
    Dodger's C63 trapped 6-7 mph more mostly from weight reduction. He has the same headers and tune as mthis but his car is much lighter. These C63 are naturally aspirated, I would imagine the results would be even more exaturated with turbos. I'm not saying the power was only due to weight savings, but it definitely played a major role. Also his car traps 8 mph more than your average non MHP car.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The MHP car with the big shot of nitrous was working through torque transmission and torque limiter issues as I recall, so theoretically it still stands to improve greatly since the nitrous isn't even showing the full potential yet.
    The V12s also have major torque limiter issues that companies have not fully unlocked yet.
    Last edited by Exeenom; 06-04-2011 at 02:24 AM.
    2007 E63 P30
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    The lines were not just found now or with the appearance of that video.... those lines have been on the car and talked about for the past 2+ years, they are NOT new.
    It's new to me and a few others, I didn't realize this was posted before as the video upload date is recent?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    It supports the "possibility" of nitrous but not it's use so still very inconclusive.
    I agree, it certainly lends credence to the nitrous theory.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Nope.... like I said before, at least 2 people actually took up his offer and went to check out his car. Also, we can set it up so that it would be at the 1/4 mile track. Check the car and run right after - this way we avoid any confusion.
    So people checked his car when it was trapping 136 or whatever it was and running low 10's?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    A trip to Florida and back can take a day or two at most and cost $500.... but why go this far, we can easily have one of the many car enthusiasts in Florida do it for us.
    Exactly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    I don't understand what you mean by that comment? Marko's car trapped 130 mph with stock turbos.
    Yep, and that is the upper range, right? So how exactly is another 100 whp being squeezed out of them?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    Dodger's C63 trapped 8 mph more mostly from weight reduction. He has the same headers and tune as mthis but his car is much lighter. These C63 are naturally aspirated, I would imagine the results would be even more exaturated with turbos. I'm not saying the power was only due to weight savings, but it definitely played a major role.
    There is no way he gained 8 mph from weight reduction alone. That would require 800 pounds removed, not happening. There is no amount of weight loss here that can account for 8 mph.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    The V12s also have major torque limiter issues that companies have not fully unlocked yet.
    I did not know this, but with 900 torque or whatever they are making I can understand it.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    a great et can be a freak number with a good driver with great DA and a tail wind but 9mph in trap there is only one way to get that and its called POWER

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
    No that is NOT correct. There is no RENNtech 65 that has gotten the mods or treatment that Steve's car has. Steve pushes his car to the limits, many of RENNtech's 65 owners don't go that far - not even close.
    Interesting. I was under the impression that both the cars in V12Godspeed's post were renntech tunes.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V12Godspeed Click here to enlarge
    This has been the Million dollar question. I like Steve (SGC), we have exchanged various texts in the past and I am sure he is a nice guy, but myself having owned a 65 with full modifications identical to his...I managed to trap 128. The other car from member Marko, (white one) trapped 130 on a cold day and his car had a more advanced tune than mines since he was closer to speedriven, However we ran nearly the exact same ET's. I ran a 10.72 and he ran a 10.73.
    The other question is that from one record to the next on Steve's car its been posted that there is no difference in boost pressure. How did his car add 7 mph in the 1320 with no obvious additional power and without significant weight loss? Not saying it cant be done just curious about a logical explanation. Did renntech unlock the torque limiter map between Steves two record runs? If yes this would be a major component in seeking the answers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's new to me and a few others, I didn't realize this was posted before as the video upload date is recent?
    Yes it is quite old.... he allowed people to see those lines long time ago and that's how the nitrous rumor started.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I agree, it certainly lends credence to the nitrous theory.
    But still does not prove it - not even close.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So people checked his car when it was trapping 136 or whatever it was and running low 10's?
    People checked his car when it was running 10.6x @ 132 mph as they accused him of nitrous as well.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yep, and that is the upper range, right? So how exactly is another 100 whp being squeezed out of them?
    Before I answer this, let me give a brief (and similar) situation.....

    From 2003 to early 2010, the quickest/fastest non-nitrous E55s trapped an average of 124 mph. RENNtech released a new 82 mm TB, a new version of their airbox, and a new tune. All of a sudden, after 7+ years of trying, E55s that added those mods (or similar) started trapping 130+ mph. Alan (bassn_07) went from trapping 122 mph to 135 mph after adding: 82mm TB, RT Air Box, long-tube headers, and a new tune. He gained 13 mph in his trap speeds. Yes, there has been major advancements in the tune and a few better version of the mods: bigger pulley, better cooling, etc...

    Similarly, in the V12 situation, RENNtech has been making advancements in their ECU tune, TCU tune, air box mods, cooling mods, transmission mods, etc... Consequently, I don't doubt that Steve is making a bit more power than he did earlier.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There is no way he gained 8 mph from weight reduction alone. That would require 800 pounds removed, not happening. There is no amount of weight loss here that can account for 8 mph.
    Well.... you can ask him and Andy from MHP. They are both straight-forward shooters, they won't lie to you. Dodger and Mthis both have race tunes and full MHP long-tubes headers. Dodgers, however, has CF hood, CF trunk, passenger seat removal, ultra light-weight driver's racing seat, light-weight battery, light-weight rotors, light-weight wheels, etc.... you can examine his car as well if you like Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I did not know this, but with 900 torque or whatever they are making I can understand it.
    Oh yeah.... they have torque limiters up the wazoo.... Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Exeenom; 06-04-2011 at 02:05 AM.
    2007 E63 P30
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. I was under the impression that both the cars in V12Godspeed's post were renntech tunes.
    Nope... V12Godspeed had the same mods but from different companies, so we're talking about different tunes, different parts, etc....

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    The other question is that from one record to the next on Steve's car its been posted that there is no difference in boost pressure. How did his car add 7 mph in the 1320 with no obvious additional power and without significant weight loss? Not saying it cant be done just curious about a logical explanation. Did renntech unlock the torque limiter map between Steves two record runs? If yes this would be a major component in seeking the answers.
    Steve has made so many different passes over the past 2 years, so I'm not sure exactly when the quote was made and which runs he or you are exactly referring to. His previous run was 10.40x and before that it was 10.6x.... I believe the trap speeds went from 133 mph to 135 mph to 137 mph. Oh and part of that improvement was DA as well.
    2007 E63 P30
    Click here to enlarge

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    I think we are getting a little out of hand with the accusations? I can see where both sides of the story have their points, but I dont think he is running nitrous..

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