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  1. #26
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    I find it silly that people even attempt to make it seem like racism didn't play a part in all this questioning. I can't recall any white faced presidents being accused of not being American. I'm no fan of alot of Obama's moves and in general hate both political parties in the US but it's so obvious the reason why this is even an issue, most white people have a difficult time equating a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama with America.

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    wow ok i just watched that and i just refuse to believe that im sorry!! In order to pull of a scandal like that it would have to be from the day he was born, nobody knew he was going to be pres so for the first 25 years or so of his like he would hide where he was born, They didnt come here for mexico so if they came from Kenya someone somewhere would have a record of some sort from back before it would have been hidden. The same conspiracy people who think we faked the moon landing and fooled the world cant possibly think we couldn't fake a birth certificate, Why would the white house cut and paste they can just get a real fake one!!

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    we'll never know 100% if it's fake or original.
    I have three things to say:
    1) Do you think someone working in the office would not have dug this thing up sooner, just for the 15mins of fame? hmmm--that's suspicious.
    2) However, do we really think the powers that be could have completely faked this thing in such a way that no one would be able to blow the whistle?
    3) I'm not a 100% sure one way or the other, and frankly I'm more concerned with his policies than I am where he got his first ass spankingClick here to enlarge

    I just wish it would come out that it was a fake document, that would be classic and we'd have a major embarrassment on our handsClick here to enlarge--I won't hold my breathe waiting--my .02
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I find it silly that people even attempt to make it seem like racism didn't play a part in all this questioning. I can't recall any white faced presidents being accused of not being American. I'm no fan of alot of Obama's moves and in general hate both political parties in the US but it's so obvious the reason why this is even an issue, most white people have a difficult time equating a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama with America.
    Actually, the media made an inquiry about John McCain's place of birth because he was born on a U.S. Military base outside of mainland USA.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I find it silly that people even attempt to make it seem like racism didn't play a part in all this questioning. I can't recall any white faced presidents being accused of not being American. I'm no fan of alot of Obama's moves and in general hate both political parties in the US but it's so obvious the reason why this is even an issue, most white people have a difficult time equating a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama with America.
    There was questioning of John McCain's legitimacy because he was born on a naval base in Panama (I believe)--sure there's always going to be some race involved, but I think the majority of people have a bigger problem with his policies (and his party) than I do his race--don't get me wrong I'm sure there are some southerns (no offense guys) that get a little upset, but I think most Americans could careless.

    EDIT: $hit Sonny beat me to it
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
    Wow, I surprisingly agree.
    The last sentence of that post you agree with shows the very racism that fuels much of the Left's socially liberal policies. It's so transparent to the reasonable observer.

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    The only country in the free world that takes pride in embarrassing it self(Clinton)!! I cant $#@!ing stand it, "look at the dumb americans they dont even know where there president is from lol lol lol lol" I understand our freedoms but god if an employee did this to a company they would be terminated but you do this to your country and your celebrated, Im a democratic minded person who voted for Bush when the 2nd time because the country was in a crises because i felt it was best for my country!! Im a naturalized citizen that is 100% a patriot and im sorry that im old fashion and i respect the office no matter whos in it

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    and FYI i voted for him but i dont think he is doing a great job but this is just nonsence

  9. #34
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    something has been looming in my head and correct me if my views are skewed but... it seems to me that alot of people especially republicans (don't get me wrong now!) have been hurting by this economic disaster that was caused by a bunch of gamblers (sometimes called wall street ivy league $#@!-ups) and the easiest person to blame is Obama.

    If Obama's not from the US, that may be a major issue, but the fuel to the fire that is this debate, has not originated from anything but people's anger at the change in conditions. So, what's the obvious answer? Change the leader! But I don't think it is that simple, especially when alot of people blame obama for the bailouts, which Bush actually did (to a great enough extent).

    Secondly, when I see these conversations, I ask why do alot of people here take the $#@! that they take??? it's your guys $#@!ing money that is being poured into the bailouts that meant that a very few people became $#@!ing rich... off your misfortunes? It baffles me guys, and I seriously hope you all the best, but what good is electing people into office if they are gonna $#@! you over?

    But then again, there are alot of people who live in a shell here (like any country, mine included!) but here is a hard place to be living in a shell because your decisions affect EVERY-$#@!ING-BODY Click here to enlarge

    am I interpreting something wrong?
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    something has been looming in my head and correct me if my views are skewed but... it seems to me that alot of people especially republicans (don't get me wrong now!) have been hurting by this economic disaster that was caused by a bunch of gamblers (sometimes called wall street ivy league $#@!-ups) and the easiest person to blame is Obama.

    If Obama's not from the US, that may be a major issue, but the fuel to the fire that is this debate, has not originated from anything but people's anger at the change in conditions. So, what's the obvious answer? Change the leader! But I don't think it is that simple, especially when alot of people blame obama for the bailouts, which Bush actually did (to a great enough extent).

    Secondly, when I see these conversations, I ask why do alot of people here take the $#@! that they take??? it's your guys $#@!ing money that is being poured into the bailouts that meant that a very few people became $#@!ing rich... off your misfortunes? It baffles me guys, and I seriously hope you all the best, but what good is electing people into office if they are gonna $#@! you over?

    But then again, there are alot of people who live in a shell here (like any country, mine included!) but here is a hard place to be living in a shell because your decisions affect EVERY-$#@!ING-BODY Click here to enlarge

    am I interpreting something wrong?
    Yes, you are.

    Two sides are to blame for the economic conditions that led to our current downed economy: 1) The government (led by Bush at the time) doing a reckless job at grading securities that are bought and sold worldwide, and 2) irresponsible borrowers (e.g., those that used the housing bubble to refinance their homes to purchase jet skis).

    But, Obama doesn't get free pass--not anymore...time's up. Although he inherited a very bad economic condition, the buck has passed, he's to be held responsible for the rate at which America climbs back from a struggling economy, especially the job market.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
    Yes, you are.

    Two sides are to blame for the economic conditions that led to our current downed economy: 1) The government (led by Bush at the time) doing a reckless job at grading securities that are bought and sold worldwide, and 2) irresponsible borrowers (e.g., those that used the housing bubble to refinance their homes to purchase jet skis).

    But, Obama doesn't get free pass--not anymore...time's up. Although he inherited a very bad economic condition, the buck has passed, he's to be held responsible for the rate at which America climbs back from a struggling economy, especially the job market.
    I see. I don't think Obama has done a good job of anything actually since he's been in office. I don't think he should have a free pass, but other than Ron Paul, there are few people who seem to be worth voting for in the coming elections.

    What do you see is the solution to this struggling economy?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    I see. I don't think Obama has done a good job of anything actually since he's been in office. I don't think he should have a free pass, but other than Ron Paul, there are few people who seem to be worth voting for in the coming elections.

    What do you see is the solution to this struggling economy?
    I've literally been thinking about my initial response to your post and I apologize if it sounded harsh. If we were in person, you would have seen that I was just taking a sharp difference to your opinion and observations.

    First, let me say that I do like some things about Obama. I like how he takes shots at the media. The direction that media is going in this country is scary. Obama makes great points that he wants more attention focused on real issues, that he likely is trying is ass off to fix.

    I don't think he lets moss grow under his feet, meaning I don't think he's lazy.

    Partisanship and the political correctness that feeds the divide are major problems in this country. Maybe if we spend less time trying not to offend (of course, we have to be reasonable/rational and mostly polite in our discourse) we can cut through the $#@!, pardon my language.

    Republicans by large are showing real difficulty in defining themselves. Hell, that's why the Tea Party sprouted up. But, the Tea Party is still a little too on the fringe, and that's because they are so one-sided: Conservative, Conservative, rah, rah, rah.

    Notwithstanding John McCain's age, he failed to get elected because he wasn't a true Conservative. He wasn't Republican (at the time to be Republican was to be Conservative) enough and he faked more and more as the election pressed on. That didn't sit well with moderates and Repub's on the bubble, so he lost votes.

    I'm only one person. But I have some good ideas. Get some other good people together and we can accumulate them.

    Here's one: Because of the California Democratic Governor Gray Davis' continual pandering to special interest groups -- most notably the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officer Association), who remains the most powerful special interest group in CA, CA prison guards get paid very well. Some would say too much. For example, there was a time, and it lasted for at least several years, that prison guards at San Quentin State Prison received more than $200.00 a month for gym membership dues. This, while the grounds of San Quentin included a home that was converted into a regular gym. Prison guards could have used it at their discretion. Yet, they still were given over $200.00 to pay for Ballys or 24 Fitness?

    So, government misspending plays a large part of this downed economy.

    Back to my idea. You know how so many people claim that the only people who are willing to perform menial farm labor throughout CA are illegal immigrants. Well, how about paying CA prisoners more than 15 cents an hour and letting groups of them handle some of the farming duties. You can't tell me that it's unfeasable to create a program that can take advantage of voluntary prison labor, made up of well-behaved prisoners.

    It's just a small drop in the bucket. But, there's smarter people than I.

  13. #38
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    I believe Bush, Cheney, and Obama are cousins because its a fact. The sheeple keep themselves lost with sports and crap.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
    I've literally been thinking about my initial response to your post and I apologize if it sounded harsh. If we were in person, you would have seen that I was just taking a sharp difference to your opinion and observations.

    First, let me say that I do like some things about Obama. I like how he takes shots at the media. The direction that media is going in this country is scary. Obama makes great points that he wants more attention focused on real issues, that he likely is trying is ass off to fix.

    I don't think he lets moss grow under his feet, meaning I don't think he's lazy.

    Partisanship and the political correctness that feeds the divide are major problems in this country. Maybe if we spend less time trying not to offend (of course, we have to be reasonable/rational and mostly polite in our discourse) we can cut through the $#@!, pardon my language.

    Republicans by large are showing real difficulty in defining themselves. Hell, that's why the Tea Party sprouted up. But, the Tea Party is still a little too on the fringe, and that's because they are so one-sided: Conservative, Conservative, rah, rah, rah.

    Notwithstanding John McCain's age, he failed to get elected because he wasn't a true Conservative. He wasn't Republican (at the time to be Republican was to be Conservative) enough and he faked more and more as the election pressed on. That didn't sit well with moderates and Repub's on the bubble, so he lost votes.

    I'm only one person. But I have some good ideas. Get some other good people together and we can accumulate them.

    Here's one: Because of the California Democratic Governor Gray Davis' continual pandering to special interest groups -- most notably the CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officer Association), who remains the most powerful special interest group in CA, CA prison guards get paid very well. Some would say too much. For example, there was a time, and it lasted for at least several years, that prison guards at San Quentin State Prison received more than $200.00 a month for gym membership dues. This, while the grounds of San Quentin included a home that was converted into a regular gym. Prison guards could have used it at their discretion. Yet, they still were given over $200.00 to pay for Ballys or 24 Fitness?

    So, government misspending plays a large part of this downed economy.

    Back to my idea. You know how so many people claim that the only people who are willing to perform menial farm labor throughout CA are illegal immigrants. Well, how about paying CA prisoners more than 15 cents an hour and letting groups of them handle some of the farming duties. You can't tell me that it's unfeasable to create a program that can take advantage of voluntary prison labor, made up of well-behaved prisoners.

    It's just a small drop in the bucket. But, there's smarter people than I.
    Hey I am glad you criticize because that sparks good debate, and that could help me better understand.

    And yes Obama has great ideas but you tell me, how much can he achieve especially in terms of his power. Does a free market economy grant him enough power?

    I will need to formulate a better reply but one last thing; is it natural to ne either dem or rep? Is there no in between where you take from both? It seems that you're on one side or the other in this system...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Hey I am glad you criticize because that sparks good debate, and that could help me better understand.

    And yes Obama has great ideas but you tell me, how much can he achieve especially in terms of his power. Does a free market economy grant him enough power?

    I will need to formulate a better reply but one last thing; is it natural to ne either dem or rep? Is there no in between where you take from both? It seems that you're on one side or the other in this system...
    I completely agree with the point about "how much can a President really do--he's just one man?" But, on a macro level, Presidents can effect "change." haha (Just making a joke)

    Seriously, though, the partisanship of a President has great influence over economy, social belief, international reputation. And, the President picks his cabinet and cabinets have large responsibilities.

    Great question about party politics. Because people pick the President, and so far, those that vote show they vote in substantially greater numbers along party lines, it's unlikely for a third party to spring up sometime soon. But, you never know, really.

    I just think many individuals stay within the Party that represents something really important to them.

    Btw, a crazy coincidence: I was just posting in a thread on a Camaro forum about whether the LSA in the upcoming ZL1 should have an automatic transmission option. I come back here and finally look at your sig and realize that you have a Manual in your car. I bet it's a blast to drive. For reference, I previously drove an L99 (automatic Camaro) with a KB blower and I think I would have enjoyed it more with a manual.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I find it silly that people even attempt to make it seem like racism didn't play a part in all this questioning. I can't recall any white faced presidents being accused of not being American. I'm no fan of alot of Obama's moves and in general hate both political parties in the US but it's so obvious the reason why this is even an issue, most white people have a difficult time equating a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama with America.

    The first 8 presidents were not US born- but it seems like there is a reason they put it in there..
    Chester Arthur
    Andrew jackson
    and candidate Mccain were accused

    looks like its not a racial thing if you go by the #'s

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
    I completely agree with the point about "how much can a President really do--he's just one man?" But, on a macro level, Presidents can effect "change." haha (Just making a joke)

    Seriously, though, the partisanship of a President has great influence over economy, social belief, international reputation. And, the President picks his cabinet and cabinets have large responsibilities.

    Great question about party politics. Because people pick the President, and so far, those that vote show they vote in substantially greater numbers along party lines, it's unlikely for a third party to spring up sometime soon. But, you never know, really.

    I just think many individuals stay within the Party that represents something really important to them.

    Btw, a crazy coincidence: I was just posting in a thread on a Camaro forum about whether the LSA in the upcoming ZL1 should have an automatic transmission option. I come back here and finally look at your sig and realize that you have a Manual in your car. I bet it's a blast to drive. For reference, I previously drove an L99 (automatic Camaro) with a KB blower and I think I would have enjoyed it more with a manual.
    By "the party that represents something really important to them", I have personally seen people side with the party that benefitted their personal needs the most. That is not a bad thing at all, but the cool thing here is this: the few people I have seen who had done this basically allowed their beliefs to match the beliefs of the party they voted for, not because they believed the party's beliefs (foreign policy, economy etc etc), but because their business or employee interests were held better with one party. So, for example, one business owner was republican because the republican party allows the wealth to trickle down, and his views seem to match them everywhere else, even though he contradicted quite a few conservative policies without knowing, including on gay rights etc... is this common, or not?

    let's say Obama does not stay in office; what do you think will be changed? especially if you got the crazies of Trump running? Do you think that a different president, even with his elected cabinet, will take the step in the right direction? (by right i mean a direction that does not favor corruption at higher levels)

    OT: on the LSA, it's phenomenal to drive in manual, and the thing that turned me away from the auto in the V was that it was outdated. I came from an auto 335i, and that transmission was solid. But, I needed to change a bit and enjoy my car a little more Click here to enlarge I can only imagine what that camaro felt like... for drag strip, auto really is a better choice and more consistent. But with the V handling the way it does, it only made sense to take control haha
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  18. #43
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    Typical answer...Libs cry an extreme accusation (i.e. the race card) and it turns the debate dead instantly. This is how they get out of debates because anyone whos viewing it automatically thinks, omg hes racist! and the debater now turned into the hated. For no reason.


    I have a customer of mine whos a lib, and he goes round for round with my boss (whos conservative). They got into a heated debate, shouting at each other at some points....when the customer realized he was in a corner and my boss had gotten the best of him, he pulled out the race card, the 'the real reason you dont like Obama is cuse hes black right?'. My boss almost slugged him right there and kicked him out of the shop...people with that mindset do not need to be allowed to exist. They cant take losing so they try to scare you with tactics such as that to flip the debate because its so easy to jump on the race wagon and really forget what the debate was about.

    Hot 97 (rap station) repeatedly broadcasts the gossip about Trump calling out for Obamas certificate, and calling it racist. Such $#@!in bull$#@!.

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    Trump talks like he is stuck in a different era dealing with race. He refers to African Americans as "the blacks" repeatedly. I don't see him making statements that have racist meanings, but his language can be perceived as racist.

    Do I think the questioning of Barracks birth is based on race, no, do I work with people who claim they are happy that him getting elected with prevent another black person from being president, yes. There are racists everywhere, its a fact of life.

    I voted for Obama, because I couldn't stand the idea of Palin representing our country, I also cannot stand the idea of Trump handling our international affairs. At least Obama knows how to talk to another country like they matter - we are the least respected country in the world, and complete idiots with most foreign affairs. The amount of meddling the CIA has done in south america is outrageous. I will continue to vote for whomever has the best foreign policy, as that will be paramount to our countries survival as we outsource more and more....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    whoever wrote that is just plain stupid. whether or not a person is eligble to be president in the first place certaintly has its role at the top of the priorities considering he is the one **making decisions about the other issues..

    RP 2012!!
    I think he point is though that where a person was born does not necessarily make them the best candidate. Someone from the North Pole might make a stellar president, you don't know.

    And yes, I understand the rules.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think he point is though that where a person was born does not necessarily make them the best candidate. Someone from the North Pole might make a stellar president, you don't know.

    And yes, I understand the rules.
    maybe, if they were eligable. cant just pick and choose what rules to follow, although they all seem to anyway.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    maybe, if they were eligable. cant just pick and choose what rules to follow, although they all seem to anyway.
    Yes, you must ultimately follow the rules but being born technically in the US doesn't endow you with some superior ability to lead.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, you must ultimately follow the rules but being born technically in the US doesn't endow you with some superior ability to lead.
    but their intent was to ensure that a US born citizen, who is "supposed" to have the US' best interest at hand, would be making the decisions

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    but their intent was to ensure that a US born citizen, who is "supposed" to have the US' best interest at hand, would be making the decisions
    Yes it was and this should be respected. If he isn't a US born citizen, obvious violation. Does not mean someone obviously isn't capable though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes it was and this should be respected. If he isn't a US born citizen, obvious violation. Does not mean someone obviously isn't capable though.
    moot point because this particluar one is incompetent

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