" Need to send you some shine. haha "

" Haha, I shouldn't post before my coffee and you shouldn't post before having a few drinks. "

" [QUOTE=inlineS54B32;468321]You didn't read my post - I said:

"The S65 has made 700 HP (post said this hasn't been seen on the S65) - and it makes torque across a very wide power-band, something the N54 is INCAPABLE of doing - why isn't that seen as important?"

The power-band of the S65 and the N54/55 are two completely different animals. I was referring to the shape and length of the output curve. One is perfectly flat and long - the other is not. An engine builder strives to have a torque curve that is perfectly flat - like an electric motor as an example. The longer that plateau extends (RPM) - the better also.

The redline of the N54/55 isn't going to increase to S65 levels without some insane amount of work - and turbos that can breath. As you said - they shouldn't even be compared at this level. One is made for a completely different purpose.

For motorsport, I personally don't see how they can be compared - but that's not everyone's concern - which is completely understandable. For tractability purposes - and overall fun, I can definitely see an argument here - but after driving both, would still be disappointed with lag. For mashing down the gas - and having a fast fun car that makes a ton of power for not much money? Yes, no doubt - the N54/55 has it beat. No argument there. "

" I'm not saying and have never said the N54 was a better motor than the S54 or S65. It's a different motor and shouldn't be compared at that level. But to quote the N54 is INCAPABLE just goes to show you don't follow the N54 forums. 700 whp has been smashed with Stock Internals and the torque curve on an N54 would be hard to match. But again, I want to clarify, it's a completely different motor and should be on it's own category as the S54 and S65 are. As much as I enjoy giving Sticky and everyone else shit when they try to voice their superiority I have to admit the S engines are in a class of their own and should be. We might not see anything like it for many years to come from BMW as they have now taken the stance of cost reduction. Hopefully someone with balls will step in and change that and the M cars will get the motors they deserve in the future. The one thing that brings us all together is the fact we own and love our BMW's, and like Sticky, some more than others. "