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    • How does the W205 Mercedes-AMG C63 S M177 V8 differ from the 2018 W213 E63 AMG S M177 V8? Engine comparison and tuned C63 vs. E63 dyno graph overlay courtesy of Renntech

      Mercedes-AMG is essentially offering the same engine architecture in various state of tune. The M176, M177, and M178 V8 motors are all the same basic design and engine family but there are differences based on the application.


      For example, the M178 gets a dry sump oil lubrication system as AMG GT owners are more likely to track their cars. Plus, there is a large price premium so it makes sense the top model gets all the goodies.

      The C63 and E63 both have an M177 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 yet the output is very different between the two. How do they differ?

      W205 C63 S

      Displacement: 3982cc
      Bore x Stroke: 83mm x 92mm
      Horsepower: 503
      Torque: 516 lb-ft
      Redline: 7000 rpm
      Compression Ratio: 10.5:1
      Boost: 17.4 psi

      W213 E63 S

      Displacement: 3982cc
      Bore x Stroke: 83mm x 92mm
      Horsepower: 603
      Torque: 627 lb0ft
      Redline: 7000 rpm
      Compression Ratio: 8.6:1
      Boost: 21.8 psi


      What should immediately strike you is that the E63 S has higher boost pressure but also lower compression. Much lower compression. Why? Well, because Mercedes-AMG is cramming in a lot more air. It is the same compression ratio as the M133 four-cylinder in the CLA45 AMG.

      The main difference is that compression ratio and the turbochargers. As the E63 S is 500 pounds heavier plus sending power to all four wheels courtesy of 4Matic it needs much more power and torque to move it. Especially considering that it is priced above the C63 in the lineup.

      The new twin scroll turbochargers ensure the E63 S is making more power and torque. There is a bit of a trade off in lag but past 3000 rpm until redline there is a massive difference in area under the curve in favor of the E63 S:


      The Renntech tuned E63 S is making nearly 120 more horsepower than the Renntech tuned C63 S.

      Maybe swapping E63 turbos and manifolds onto the C63 will become popular?

      The E63 also gets new pistons as already highlighted plus a new intake manifold and intercooler design.

      There you have it.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: How does the W205 Mercedes-AMG C63 S M177 V8 differ from the 2018 W213 E63 AMG S M177 V8? Tuned C63 vs. E63 dyno graph overlay courtesy of Renntech started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 8 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        C63 manifold left and E63 manifold right:

        Click here to enlarge
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Is there any differences between 177 (E63, S63 versions) and 178 besides the dry sump? Or are all the GT cars using the same turbos as the 177 in the bigger cars? For some reason I thought they had "tweener" sized turbos but I could be pulling that out of my own ass.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Is there any differences between 177 (E63, S63 versions) and 178 besides the dry sump? Or are all the GT cars using the same turbos as the 177 in the bigger cars? For some reason I thought they had "tweener" sized turbos but I could be pulling that out of my own ass.
        It's a good question. I assume the GT C and the GT R both have different turbos.

        As for the GT and the S, same turbos from what I know.

        Same turbos as the C63 base and S just those do not have dry sump so I would guess same manifolds too.

        The main difference is the intake design. The GT breathes better up top.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Sounds right, I also think the GT and GTS have the same turbos, and the GTC and GTR have the same turbos. I'm not sure how either pair relates to the turbos in the E63/S63, but I'm guessing closer to the bigger cars.

        I know we've seen in the past too that the power/torque curves are fairly different on the GT engines vs. the engines in the other cars, the 178 has a more progressive torque curve, revs higher, makes more power up top, less of a torque plateau...more of a "sports car" tune but I'm guessing that's almost entirely due to software. Wonder what boost they run, can't remember right now.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        I'm not sure how either pair relates to the turbos in the E63/S63
        I don't think any of the GT's have twin scrolls, do they?
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't think any of the GT's have twin scrolls, do they?
        Nope the GT-R and C use the same turbo size as the GT/GT S but on the R/C the compressor wheel is bigger and the wastegate was modified. The E63s and new S63 have the twin scroll manifold with completely different turbos
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Very interesting, I had thought the GT cars all used twin scroll turbos too.

        Why does twin scroll create lag? I thought it was designed specifically to mitigate that. Doesn't it mean you have more consistent angular force on the turbine wheel?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Why does twin scroll create lag?
        It doesn't. They went twin scroll plus bigger turbos.