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    • PP-Performance claiming 734 horsepower from the W213 Mercedes-AMG E63 S with ECU tuning and catless downpipes

      Several tuners are already pushing the new W213 generation E63 S with its 4.0 liter twin turbocharged M177 V8 and the results are impressive. Tuner PP-P Performance is showing a dyno of 734 horsepower at the crank.


      That is with their ECU flash tune and catless downpipes. Putting these numbers in context is somewhat difficult as their MAHA dynamometer reads very differently.

      The wheel output figure shows 564 whp:


      Far more conservative than the 656 wheel horsepower DME Tuning showed on their all wheel drive Dynojet with a Stage I tune.

      Hopefully we will get more dyno tests for contextual purposes but the new W213 E63 is already a tuner's dream.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: PP-Performance claiming 734 horsepower from the W213 Mercedes-AMG E63 S with ECU tuning and catless downpipes started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 19 Comments
      1. F16HTON's Avatar
        F16HTON -
        One thing to note is that with the overlay, there is slightly more drivetrain loss with the tuned numbers.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
        One thing to note is that with the overlay, there is slightly more drivetrain loss with the tuned numbers.
        Why though?
      1. F16HTON's Avatar
        F16HTON -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why though?
        There could be many reasons...heat, tire pressure, fluid temperature, etc. We rarely see MAHA numbers that provide a overlay.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
        There could be many reasons...heat, tire pressure, fluid temperature, etc. We rarely see MAHA numbers that provide a overlay.
        I don't see how the MAHA can even calculate drivetrain loss. It's just estimating with a % based on the recorded output.
      1. F16HTON's Avatar
        F16HTON -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't see how the MAHA can even calculate drivetrain loss. It's just estimating with a % based on the recorded output.
        It actually measures the overall drag during the run down phase, it is not a calculation.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
        It actually measures the overall drag during the run down phase, it is not a calculation.
        Well that measure is a calculation itself...

        If it measures during the run down phase this can be affected in many ways as you highlighted. Tire pressure for one...
      1. F16HTON's Avatar
        F16HTON -
        Drivetrain loss is parasitic, on many of the studies I have completed in physics (parasitic loss), the losses typically are greater when heat is increased.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
        Drivetrain loss is parasitic, on many of the studies I have completed in physics (parasitic loss), the losses typically are greater when heat is increased.
        Would be reverse though with tire pressure wouldn't it?
      1. F16HTON's Avatar
        F16HTON -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Would be reverse though with tire pressure wouldn't it?
        I think it could go both ways, increased loss with low pressure, increased loss with high pressure. All based on the optimal pressure per square inch of contact patch.
      1. 93siro's Avatar
        93siro -
        MAHA is the choice of OEM’s. It’s safe to assume that it’s actually an accurate device.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        i have been saying for years that drivetrain loss should be a static number not a percentage, If a stock car has a 15% loss on average thats fine for a starting point, but if i flash tune that car in the total power goes up 100hp then why would the parasitic loss also increase if no hardware changed? The loss should be the same as when the car was stock.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        i have been saying for years that drivetrain loss should be a static number not a percentage
        Well for years you have been saying something that doesn't make sense. Losses aren't static.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 93siro Click here to enlarge
        MAHA is the choice of OEM’s. It’s safe to assume that it’s actually an accurate device.
        I would think most high end dyno's are accurate.

        OEM's have better tools than a MAHA available like actual engines dynos.
      1. 93siro's Avatar
        93siro -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I would think most high end dyno's are accurate.

        OEM's have better tools than a MAHA available like actual engines dynos.
        Yeah but they have roller dynos for overall fine tuning of everything and also emission testing. A Maha rep told me their biggest market is OEM’s and corporate testing facilities such as TUV and others.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 93siro Click here to enlarge
        Yeah but they have roller dynos for overall fine tuning of everything and also emission testing. A Maha rep told me their biggest market is OEM’s and corporate testing facilities such as TUV and others.
        Interesting.

        I still don't like how they read or people who say a MAHA is the only way to go.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well for years you have been saying something that doesn't make sense. Losses aren't static.
        so if it takes 80hp to move all the components of a drive train, if that car has the boost turned up and nothing else changes why would it take more than the original 80hp to turn the same components?
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        so my m6 was 520whp stock, at 15% loss thats about 611 at the crank, with bef,jb4,and meth the car has made 740whp, at 15% thats about 870 at the crank. So before the tune based on 15% it lost 91hp, after the tune and mods it grows to 130hp. Why would that be?? Now like i said, add a heavy duty clutch,drive shaft , axels, etc then the number should change, on tune only cars it should not
      1. 93siro's Avatar
        93siro -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        so my m6 was 520whp stock, at 15% loss thats about 611 at the crank, with bef,jb4,and meth the car has made 740whp, at 15% thats about 870 at the crank. So before the tune based on 15% it lost 91hp, after the tune and mods it grows to 130hp. Why would that be?? Now like i said, add a heavy duty clutch,drive shaft , axels, etc then the number should change, on tune only cars it should not
        The frictions, heats generated, inertia... every factor in a drivetrain loss is a precentage of the overall forces caused/occured in a system. Its not a fixed number.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 93siro Click here to enlarge
        The frictions, heats generated, inertia... every factor in a drivetrain loss is a precentage of the overall forces caused/occured in a system. Its not a fixed number.
        This