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    • Proof MBWorld is run by idiots - Site claims the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not delivering its advertised horsepower

      The average person does not understand dyno numbers and how they relate to horsepower. People claiming to be automotive journalists and writing for automotive websites should understand dyno numbers especially if they are going to claim a car is not delivering the claimed manufacturer output.


      A complete idiot on MBWorld by the name of Jerry Perez is spreading what you can only appropriately call fake news by stating the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio does not deliver on its claimed 505 horsepower output:

      Touted as the AMG Beater, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglioís Advertised Horsepower Crumbles on the Dyno

      His reasoning? This dyno graph from an article last week:


      The genius writes the power crumbles on the dyno. Yes, seriously. He decides to apply a 15% correction factor which means the car should actually show 429 horsepower to the wheels and that is the basis for his claim.

      Well, we can't argue with that now can we? 15% of 505 horsepower is 429. He's got us there.

      At no point though does he consider that a Mustang dyno may read differently than other dynos. At no point does he consider that the 15% drivetrain loss 'rule' actually originated with the Dynojet and is used as a (flawed) rule of thumb for drivetrain losses on manual transmission cars. At no point does he think about maybe doing some basic research into the dyno type and looking at results from other cars.

      Here is an example. This is a C218 generation Mercedes-AMG CLS63 with the M157 twin turbo V8 motor. It is rated at 518 horsepower and 516 lb-ft of torque. By the reasoning of Mr. Perez it should show 440 horsepower to the wheels:


      OMG? What is going on here? Someone sound the alarm! Only 390 horsepower to the wheels from a 518 horsepower motor! Where is the article saying C218 CLS63 AMG horsepower crumbles on the dyno?

      Brace yourself. Here comes something that will blow your mind. This is a CLS63 on a different type of dyno:


      Yes, the blue line is the stock output and shows 483 horsepower to the wheels. Suddenly the CLS63 goes from not having 518 horsepower to having more than 518 horsepower. Is this magic? Do CLS63's vary by 93 horsepower at the wheels from the factory?

      No. It's simply that Jerry Perez is a hack, MBWorld is run by morons who allow fanboys to spew this garbage, and the user base is not intelligent enough to know the difference.

      One can simply look at the trap speed for the Giulia Quadrifoglio to see it is making its advertised output. Anyone who is going to make a claim that a car is underperforming should at least research its performance figures beforehand.

      Alfa Romeo should be angry this false claim is being spread but then again they have bigger fish to fry. BoostAddict will happily correct this garbage.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Perez on MBWorld
      Officially, the Quadrifoglio is said to squeeze 505 horsepower out of its 2.9-liter twin-turbocharged V6. But this dyno run seems to have only measured 392 ponies. Now, itís normal protocol to calculate a 15% flywheel power loss, but this figure seems to account for much more than that. Either Alfa over-hyped their new sedan, or the type of dyno utilized isnít delivering the right stats.
      How about option 3? You don't know what you're talking about.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Proof MBWorld is run by idiots - Site claims the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not delivering its advertised horsepower started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 16 Comments
      1. 63Master's Avatar
        63Master -
        sticky ,

        why make an issue of what and who said on another forum?
      1. AMGAffalterbach's Avatar
        AMGAffalterbach -
        Because it needs to be said. That's honestly the reason I stopped using MBWorld so much because I read half of their articles and I want to smash my computer screen at how inaccurate, misrepresentational, or plain stupid they are. Their editors need to read to article that was published on here (I think it was related to VF Engineering?) that talked about dynamometer area under the curve being the best pre and post dyno metric to look at. As well as the notion that that's the ONLY real use for a dyno, is the before-and-after comparisons on the same vehicle (or maybe some dyno day fun). People get so caught up in peak numbers and really don't understand how much that can vary by from calibration to calibration, correction to correction. Hell even smoothing has a big affect on how the curve appears.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
        sticky ,

        why make an issue of what and who said on another forum?
        So people know the truth and don't start saying a car isn't making power based on flawed reasoning. Basically, to educate.
      1. AWSAWS's Avatar
        AWSAWS -
        Dyno numbers. Never straight forward. Unless you can get every car on the same dyno in the same conditions they are fairly controversial and speculative.
        End of discussion.
      1. DavidV's Avatar
        DavidV -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 63Master Click here to enlarge
        sticky ,

        why make an issue of what and who said on another forum?
        What really surprises me is why he is reacting to fake news in the first place.
        Maybe he is just triggered by fake automotive news, and takes all other fake news for true.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
        What really surprises me is why he is reacting to fake news in the first place.
        Maybe he is just triggered by fake automotive news, and takes all other fake news for true.
        It's an important new car David. People saying stuff that isn't accurate about it helps nobody.
      1. csu87's Avatar
        csu87 -
        Everyone knows you need to then apply the 10% Dynojet to Mustang Dyno conversion factor that people like to use. Then apply the 10% "Dyno operator didnt know what he was doing and it should have dynod higher" correction factor. And dont forget the additional 10% cause automatic correction factor. Once you apply all of those, this is a 600hp car easily.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AMGAffalterbach Click here to enlarge
        Their editors need to read to article that was published on here (I think it was related to VF Engineering?) that talked about dynamometer area under the curve being the best pre and post dyno metric
        You're referring to this, fantastic article: http://www.boostaddict.com/content.p...-and-marketing
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Ever since MBWorld was bought by Internet Brands, it's been a $#@!hole (can I say that here) - used to be one of the best forums on the internet...now it's a shell with only a few of the excellent former members still hanging around. Really sad. The front page "articles" are simply SEO-optimized click bait for the Buzzfeed crowd. The forums are still useful, but not nearly as vibrant as they used to be. Feels weird to say but part of the reason I bought an M5 as opposed to an S63/S65 like I originally had planned was partially due to the fact that the MB community doesn't even register on the scale compared to the BMW community that's out there. And the demise of MBWorld has made that even worse. RIP one of my former favorite websites.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Ever since MBWorld was bought by Internet Brands, it's been a $#@!hole (can I say that here) -
        Yes you can and that is what happens every time Internet Brands buys a forum. It just turns to garbage.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        The front page "articles" are simply SEO-optimized click bait for the Buzzfeed crowd.
        It's terrible. You summarize it perfectly but now not only are they doing clickbait but they are also spreading fake news like this.
      1. Torgus's Avatar
        Torgus -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yes you can and that is what happens every time Internet Brands buys a forum. It just turns to garbage.
        They are literally a forum killer, IBs are horrible.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
        They are literally a forum killer, IBs are horrible.
        They don't care. They sell the software and scoop up any forum that gets large keeping a giant circle jerk going.

        You have no idea how hard it is to fight them. The sad thing is, they aren't even any good at what they do they just have a ton of money.
      1. maxnix's Avatar
        maxnix -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AWSAWS Click here to enlarge
        Dyno numbers. Never straight forward. Unless you can get every car on the same dyno in the same conditions they are fairly controversial and speculative.
        End of discussion.
        So true! These numbers are never absolutes.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maxnix Click here to enlarge
        So true! These numbers are never absolutes.
        Click here to enlarge
      1. BLKROKT's Avatar
        BLKROKT -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
        They are literally a forum killer, IBs are horrible.
        They did the same with 6Speed. Totally killed it.

        MBW is good for the forum only (barely). The "editors" have never known anything. Totally useless.
      1. 63Master's Avatar
        63Master -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky2 Click here to enlarge
        So people know the truth and don't start saying a car isn't making power based on flawed reasoning. Basically, to educate.
        I see your point now. I agree with you in this. That forum is becoming the source of pure dispatching BS.