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    • M V8 vs. V10 - Tuned E92 M3 S65 on E85 vs. tuned E60 M5 S85 (plus a W204 C63 throw in)

      Big brother versus little brother here. Literally, that is the matchup as the S65 V8 is just a 4.0 liter version of the S85 V10 under the hood of the E60 M5. The bore and stroke are the exact same. This was done to of course to have a V8 to race with and also to save money with parts sharing.


      The S85 V10 is ultimately more capable and will put out more power and torque due to its size. Everything one likes about the S65 V8 the S85 V10 does better except that the V8 is lighter and mated to a lighter chassis. That chassis also has the option of a DCT transmission which the M5 does not.

      This E60 M5 is a 6-speed manual version and, well, the M3 is more than its match due to an efficient package.

      There is also a W204 C63 AMG thrown into this race although we do not know the mods. One would assume your basic bolt ons. It shows very well.

      All three cars are very evenly matched.


      2009 E60 M5 6spd
      Evolve Alpha N
      Evolve long tube headers catless
      Eisenman sec 1&2 and Meistershaft sec 3
      Drop in filter

      2011 E92 M3 ZCP DCT
      Gintani tune
      E85 flex fuel
      Active Autowerke catless x-pipe
      Drop in filter
      Recaro seat
      Pulled passenger and rear seats
      Volk TE37SL 18's
      Lightweight battery

      W204 C63
      Mods unknown

      This article was originally published in forum thread: E92 m3 dct n/a vs e60 m5 6spd started by gzim335 View original post
      Comments 39 Comments
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Any idea what kind of power the m3 is putting down? I've been digging for stock S65's on E85 power figures but havent found anything credible...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
        Any idea what kind of power the m3 is putting down? I've been digging for stock S65's on E85 power figures but havent found anything credible...
        With those mods 38X or so?
      1. SpeedLimit?'s Avatar
        SpeedLimit? -
        I can't find anything to confirm whether 6-speed M5's have the dreaded clutch delay valve but the way it bogged after every shift leads me to believe they do.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
        I can't find anything to confirm whether 6-speed M5's have the dreaded clutch delay valve but the way it bogged after every shift leads me to believe they do.
        Honestly, that's just how it looks trying to shift against a DCT.
      1. Aaron's Avatar
        Aaron -
        He was also taking his time hitting the gears. If the transmission is the same as in my 335, I know why, they don't particularly like hitting the next gear hard. I have to give mine a few moments between the 1-2 otherwise it'll grind. Apparently new trans fluid will change this.

        You say the V10 does everything the V8 does better, which is of course not true. As a result of the lighter internals, the S65 runs out farther, thereby increasing its VE and specific output.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        With those mods 38X or so?
        I would assume that much power on pump gas, but if its tuned for E85 i would expect a few more ponies.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Aaron Click here to enlarge
        You say the V10 does everything the V8 does better, which is of course not true. As a result of the lighter internals, the S65 runs out farther, thereby increasing its VE and specific output.
        What lighter internals? They are all literally the same.

        The S65 is revved out slightly higher for more peak power due to it being smaller.

        We're talking 8250 vs. 8400. You think the S85 can't rev to 8400? Because it sure can:

      1. Aaron's Avatar
        Aaron -
        Just read over your post a few more times. Like learning the alphabet, it takes the retards a few more tries to get it right.
      1. SpeedLimit?'s Avatar
        SpeedLimit? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Aaron Click here to enlarge
        He was also taking his time hitting the gears. If the transmission is the same as in my 335, I know why, they don't particularly like hitting the next gear hard. I have to give mine a few moments between the 1-2 otherwise it'll grind. Apparently new trans fluid will change this.

        You say the V10 does everything the V8 does better, which is of course not true. As a result of the lighter internals, the S65 runs out farther, thereby increasing its VE and specific output.
        Did you remove the cdv already?
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        i can't see how e85 would help much on a na car, maybe 10-15hp max for the extra octane
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        i can't see how e85 would help much on a na car, maybe 10-15hp max for the extra octane
        That's basically it. Just allow some aggressive timing. Essentially, a race gas tune.
      1. gzim335's Avatar
        gzim335 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That's basically it. Just allow some aggressive timing. Essentially, a race gas tune.
        I was on pump gas tune here with e85 in the tank,since this race I did full American racing long tube headers e92 m3 system from headers to tips sounds insane,also got a higher timing tune from gintani.c63 is oe tuned
      1. mynameisplayer's Avatar
        mynameisplayer -
        lol...4L vs 5L vs 6.2L Merc only catching up the HP race now with the 4LTT cars
      1. Aaron's Avatar
        Aaron -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
        Did you remove the cdv already?
        Yes it's been out for a while now. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference except for normal, everyday launching.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mynameisplayer Click here to enlarge
        lol...4L vs 5L vs 6.2L Merc only catching up the HP race now with the 4LTT cars
        But displacement gives the Benz reliability, torque, and sound. My God that sound.
      1. Aces's Avatar
        Aces -
        This was a great race to watch. Thank you for posting.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
        I was on pump gas tune here with e85 in the tank,since this race I did full American racing long tube headers e92 m3 system from headers to tips sounds insane,also got a higher timing tune from gintani.c63 is oe tuned
        Why didn't you dyno? Should be much stronger now.

        Just get a blower already.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Aaron Click here to enlarge
        But displacement gives the Benz reliability
        http://www.benzboost.com/content.php...engine-defects
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        i can't see how e85 would help much on a na car, maybe 10-15hp max for the extra octane
        "just" 10-15 hp? On an NA engine with an already high VE, thats a pretty massive increase in power, lol. Even more beneficial when you consider its just fuel and software being changed. Its basically free power.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        FWIW i found my answer, GZIM posted this on the other site: "Made 372 whp on pump catless n drop in filter,after retune and e85 made 393 on that same dyno"
      1. Aaron's Avatar
        Aaron -
        Good thing BMW never got sued for the S65. Oh wait.