• ESS Stage 1 non-intercooled supercharger results for s85 (M5,M6) V10 - 530 whp

      As promised, here are the results so far for our non-intercooled VT1 version of our upcoming S85 SC kit. Final results may vary slightly as production spec hardware/software is not yet 100% finalized:

      Car : 2006 E60 M5, 100% stock except for SC kit
      Fuel : 93AKI
      Boost pressure : ~6PSI
      SC unit : Vortech V3Si

      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS Stage 1 results for s85 - 530 whp started by 930chas View original post
      Comments 18 Comments
      1. Yukohama's Avatar
        Yukohama -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        For the non-intercooled setup that is very nice especially considering it is supposed to have a sub $10k price point.

        These are realistic numbers and they have gotten smart saying the final results may vary. Looks like ESS is making some changes in the way they show their dyno numbers, excellent Click here to enlarge
        exactly good to see they are. hopefully they will continue with it!
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        nice! not bad considering the numbers they post before were a little obscure. 530 whp is alright... but why the hell isnt it intercooled. its forced induction, that compressed air is so hot. it could be losing at least 30-50 whp w/o the intercooler. i just dont get what is so hard about that, do they really not understand physics?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        nice! not bad considering the numbers they post before were a little obscure. 530 whp is alright... but why the hell isnt it intercooled. its forced induction, that compressed air is so hot. it could be losing at least 30-50 whp w/o the intercooler. i just dont get what is so hard about that, do they really not understand physics?
        I think the argument is for a low boost setup you don't have to have an intercooler and secondly it keeps the cost down. They will eventually offer an intercooled system, this is their entry level setup.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
        exactly good to see they are. hopefully they will continue with it!
        Considering all the flack they took for their misleading numbers and the users who weren't hitting the claimed numbers it would seem they re-evaluated how they present their dyno's. About time Click here to enlarge
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        agreed with your poost sticky, but who tunes their cars? GIAC?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        agreed with your poost sticky, but who tunes their cars? GIAC?
        Asbjorn at ESS supposedly does all the tuning.
      1. Moose's Avatar
        Moose -
        Impressive! 100% stock with just the SC kit. These things should make great power with the cats removed, cant wait to see the numbers for the next stage Click here to enlarge
      1. fstop7's Avatar
        fstop7 -
        Definitely interested. Putting headers on that car should yield a pretty big gain.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
        Definitely interested. Putting headers on that car should yield a pretty big gain.
        True, as well as higher boost with an intercooler.

        If it is hitting 530 at 6 psi it should be in the ~570 range intercooled at 8 psi.

        If they used water-meth they could get this thing over 600 relatively easily.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        This is starting to get interesting, 560 whp dyno with changed the software and upped the boost (claiming half a pound, ya right! notice the lack of a boost graph) :

        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        This user calls into question the gains on the S85 vs. S65, very astute:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by verbs Click here to enlarge
        This is partially why I thought the numbers were low. 140rwhp gain on 4.5psi on a 4.0L engine vs. 115rwhp gain on 6psi on a 5.0L engine. I'd be curious to hear from ESS as to why there is such a gap between hp gain per psi, however my guess is they're still tweaking things on the M5 kit.
        Asbjorn's answer:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Asbjorn@ESS Click here to enlarge
        Different kit layout, different exhaust system capacity, etc. It is easier to make large % gains on the S65 V8 than on the S85 V10 as we are starting to have limitations on cat/exhaust flow, SC intake air plumbing, SC capacity, etc. The more power you make the more limiting factors there are. We also tuned the system on the V10 for a massive, flat torque curve instead of peak top end numbers as the V10 really needs more mid range grunt.

        We did crank up the boost to 6.5PSI and tweak the software slightly today. Here is the result of that experiment
        What a lame answer. It is easier to make large % gains on the S65 vs. the S85? Ridiculous, they claimed 600 whp on the S65 THROUGH THE STOCK EXHAUST. So the S85 can't hit the numbers the S65 hit? Huh?

        The problem here is that ESS went too far inflating figures for the S65 kit and now that they know they can't get away with it they are caught trying to explain the discrepancy with the V10. The S65 is basically just an S85, but 2 cylinders missing. The % gains at the same PSI are going to be pretty much the same.

        The part about tuning it for more midrange is just ridiculous as well. What, they re-engineered the blower? It is going to make boost in the exact same manner as it is the same hardware as the S65 kit. You can't change the centrifugal's boost delivery, it is RPM dependent. Just more nonsense to try to explain away the lack of peak numbers vs. what they showed previously on the S65, they screwed themselves up.
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Wow, didn't know the V10 had the same rev limit, cool. They need to get that thing all the way opened up!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
        Wow, didn't know the V10 had the same rev limit, cool. They need to get that thing all the way opened up!
        The V10 is just the same basic thing. They need to use some water-meth, raise the boost, and see what it can really do...
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        I'm more interested in what it can do without water/meth. With headers/catless exhaust and possibly cams? I bet intercooled and full bolts ons plus cams it could see 600+whp without water/meth on factory internals (not including cams) with that supercharger on 93 octane.
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This user calls into question the gains on the S85 vs. S65, very astute:



        Asbjorn's answer:



        What a lame answer. It is easier to make large % gains on the S65 vs. the S85? Ridiculous, they claimed 600 whp on the S65 THROUGH THE STOCK EXHAUST. So the S85 can't hit the numbers the S65 hit? Huh?

        The problem here is that ESS went too far inflating figures for the S65 kit and now that they know they can't get away with it they are caught trying to explain the discrepancy with the V10. The S65 is basically just an S85, but 2 cylinders missing. The % gains at the same PSI are going to be pretty much the same.

        The part about tuning it for more midrange is just ridiculous as well. What, they re-engineered the blower? It is going to make boost in the exact same manner as it is the same hardware as the S65 kit. You can't change the centrifugal's boost delivery, it is RPM dependent. Just more nonsense to try to explain away the lack of peak numbers vs. what they showed previously on the S65, they screwed themselves up.
        I can't believe he really said that. It doesn't make sense a large displacement engine with and additional 2 cylinders is weaker than the v8 4.0 lol.. maybe they should dyno their s65 SC kits on that dynojet so we can compare real results haha.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
        I'm more interested in what it can do without water/meth. With headers/catless exhaust and possibly cams? I bet intercooled and full bolts ons plus cams it could see 600+whp without water/meth on factory internals (not including cams) with that supercharger on 93 octane.
        I'm interested in both but really with how high the compression is you aren't going to see what it is capable of on the stock internals without water-meth.

        I would agree, with intercooler and full exhaust 600 whp is realistic.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        I can't believe he really said that. It doesn't make sense a large displacement engine with and additional 2 cylinders is weaker than the v8 4.0 lol.. maybe they should dyno their s65 SC kits on that dynojet so we can compare real results haha.
        I know, it makes you laugh.
      1. jchris's Avatar
        jchris -
        Any updates?