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    • Active Autowerke already blows E92 M3 S65 V8 Motor with their Supercharger kit?

      It seems that the Active Autowerke supercharger for the E92 M3 has already claimed a motor. We were suprised to learn of this since AA took so much time to come to market and did extensive testing. The vehicle in question has meth in addition to 93 octane so we don't feel this was a fueling issue. If the motor blew with meth as a safety on top of 93 octane it leaves either the tune as the issue or a defect in the motor. Additionally, Active changes the plugs on the motor to colder heat range HKS plugs. Take a look at the shots of the plugs to see that they may have played a part in the motor blowing. The factory plugs are an intricate part of the knock control systeml.

      The car itself was a dealer demo car. People beat the crap out of these cars so keep that in mind. I would never buy a demo, you should never buy a demo. There is a reason customers are encouraged to "test" on demos. The motor only had 25,000 miles.

      Here are pictures of the installed AA SC:



      And the aftermath:

      Plug from failed cylinder:





      Compared to plugs in other cylinders:







      Bottom of car:







      Top end:



      Water in intake manifold:



      Pieces from the motor:



      We will have more as we find out more but it seems there is going to be some explaining to do. Will be interesting to see if the failure was mechanical or the tune itself. For those with Active SC's, we advise you to monitor the situation closely.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Active Autowerke already blows E92 M3 S65 V8 Motor? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 75 Comments
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        $#@! breaks when you want more power. Most
        people don't think about that. I know first hand.
      1. ccsykes's Avatar
        ccsykes -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
        $#@! breaks when you want more power. Most
        people don't think about that. I know first hand.
        Does it ever haha..

        I'm getting DDS L5 Axles, OS Giken diff, DDS one-piece drive shaft, drive shaft loop with my HPF stage 3 build. Not because I think these parts won't break but because they will just take longer to break lol.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        doesnt matter, you would need an expert witness to argue your case, and its pretty tough to say a s/c didnt cause motor failure in some way..
        Look, it is almost an impossible uphill battle but the point is to not let BMW off the hook for their defects just because you are modded.

        Additionally, people should not expect BMW to cover their asses. You have to pay to play. If BMW is at fault here, I fully expect them to pay. If they aren't, I fully expect the owner to pay as he should take personal responsibility and accountability for his actions.
      1. fstop7's Avatar
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        I like Meth. HI 5
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        can you copy/paste comments.. some of us cant read over there..
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Just painful reading that $#@!, let the wanna-be auto intellectuals stay there where they belong. People like BMRLVR are the entire problem with that place.

        AA doesn't even design the kit around meth, that is something that was added on later. Secondly, the competition does have kits without meth, they give you the choice if you want it or not. What is this guy even talking about?

        Can't run meth on a street application? Ok Click here to enlarge
      1. EUGENE-Taiwan's Avatar
        EUGENE-Taiwan -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
        Damn! Straight through the freakin oil pan!

        I agree with you Sticky, I wouldn't mess with the stock plugs on these cars!
        I thought they where using the HKS spark pluges!!!!!


        I do hope the owner of the car get taken care of.
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Pretty much! Glad I'm not alone thinking that... what a tool

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Just painful reading that $#@!, let the wanna-be auto intellectuals stay there where they belong. People like BMRLVR are the entire problem with that place.

        AA doesn't even design the kit around meth, that is something that was added on later. Secondly, the competition does have kits without meth, they give you the choice if you want it or not. What is this guy even talking about?

        Can't run meth on a street application? Ok Click here to enlarge
        Ya typical newb spewing bull$#@!.. I like the part about why no OEM sells a car with meth installed are you kidding me??? Those people should have their comments deleted and buy a clue on amazon.
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        can you copy/paste comments.. some of us cant read over there..
        Here u go...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLVR Click here to enlarge
        Methanol injection is a band-aid fix to a poorly engineered kit. If ESS can make their systems work without methanol why can't the competition.

        Look at those plugs...... They were running extremely lean..... The kit was definitely a contributing factor to this failure. Anyone who thinks different is not all there. AFR's, IAT's and combustion temperatures need to be controlled very closely on an FI system being installed on an engine running 12:1 Compression. Methanol injection is not reliable enough to control this on a street driven car. On a race car methanol is good for squeezing out the last few HP but on a street car it is not ideal.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLVR Click here to enlarge
        Well sir I deal with 3500BHP FI engines on a daily basis..... it is my job. If you can't control Intake air temperatures and Exhaust Gas temperatures with a good intercooler/aftercooler and proper tuning it is not a good application for a street driven car.

        Methanol is great for a race application but not for a street driven application. There is just too many variables to contend with...... have you ever seen an OEM turbocharged engine running methanol? When reliability is a big consideration (as I think it should be for any kit that is being produced for the E90/92/93 M3) Methanol injection is just not Ideal.

        I am betting it is a 95% chance that this failed rod was do to severe Detenation near BDC. The combustion forces and cylinder pressures are huge when detenation occurs near BDC. The problem is that at BDC there is so much cylinder volume at this point in the stroke for the combustion event to expand. Couple this with the fact that both valves are closed and the piston has little or no room to travel to react to the pressures created by this explosion. In this instance the weakest link has to give...... The Rod. Shy of lifting the head off of the engine the rod is the only part that will give to these kind of forces.

        Just visualize this: The intake valve has just closed and the cylinder is filled with a high temperature mixture of pressurized Fuel/Air/Methanol. The high temperatures caused by running boost are enough for detenation to occur. The mixture ignites near BDC and the combustion is so violent (two-three times a normal combustion event near TDC) the rod has no choice but to bend.

        You see with methanol all it takes is a split second hiccup in the methanol delivery or one tank of off spec fuel and you have a ticking time bomb. Methanol is good but not for a daily driven street car.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLVR Click here to enlarge
        If you can't control Intake air temperatures and Exhaust Gas temperatures with a good intercooler/aftercooler and proper tuning it is not a good application for a street driven car.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLVR Click here to enlarge
        ethanol injection is a band-aid fix to a poorly engineered kit. If ESS can make their systems work without methanol why can't the competition.
        Who has a kit that you need meth for? Nobody, as a matter of fact, every kit is available without meth. So if you add meth to an ESS kit it becomes a poorly tuned street application the moment it is hooked up? Are you sober?

        Ethanol is not a band-air for a poorly engineered kit, smack yourself with your keyboard, please.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLVR Click here to enlarge
        Well sir I deal with 3500BHP FI engines on a daily basis.....
        And? Did you hang out in a shop building Indy 500 motors when you were a kid too? This is your job? With what you have said so far I don't expect you to keep it for very long. I'm still laughing about the ethanol being used to mask poorly designed kits comment.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLCR Click here to enlarge
        have you ever seen an OEM turbocharged engine running methanol?
        Have you ever seen an OEM M motor running a supercharger?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMRLVR Click here to enlarge
        You see with methanol all it takes is a split second hiccup in the methanol delivery or one tank of off spec fuel and you have a ticking time bomb.
        Not true. You are confusing meth being used as part of the fuel system to make up for a maxed out fuel system, which it isn't in the SC S65 applications, to using meth as a supplement to cool the intake charge. I don't give a crap if you sit on top of 3500 hp motors or if you make love to them, you need to stop typing. I mean, since, like, soooooo many n54's running meth kits are blowing left and right being ticking time bombs and all.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Kind of amusing, E46fanatics deleted the thread about this. What a joke...
      1. spdu4ea's Avatar
        spdu4ea -
        It's really tough to diagnose an engine failure over the internet, but judging by the spark plugs and the holes in the block a rod failure is 100x more likely than an issue with the tune... Until they tear everything down and confirm, we won't know but that meth hysteria on the other forum is just silly.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
        It's really tough to diagnose an engine failure over the internet, but judging by the spark plugs and the holes in the block a rod failure is 100x more likely than an issue with the tune... Until they tear everything down and confirm, we won't know but that meth hysteria on the other forum is just silly.
        Exactly, very well said.
      1. fstop7's Avatar
        fstop7 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Just painful reading that $#@!, let the wanna-be auto intellectuals stay there where they belong. People like BMRLVR are the entire problem with that place.

        AA doesn't even design the kit around meth, that is something that was added on later. Secondly, the competition does have kits without meth, they give you the choice if you want it or not. What is this guy even talking about?

        Can't run meth on a street application? Ok Click here to enlarge
        I love the part where he tries to justify his mad internet skills by telling us he works on 3500hp engines (I'm guessing either diesel engines on ships or some kind of turbine) and that meth is bad because it's not used by auto manufacturers in OEM cars. Holy $#@!, that is a new brand of stupid.

        It's like someone ranting about how screwdrivers are useless and only hammers are good.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
        and that meth is bad because it's not used by auto manufacturers in OEM cars.
        His logic is flawed. He talks smack on ethanol as well when we have how many flex-fuel cars being hyped all the time by OEM's? Plus, who cares about an OEM application on what is an aftermarket setup anyway? How many OEM supercharged 12.0:1 compression SC cars are there? His same line of thinking would make boosting the motor invalid.

        Just best to not even read that nonsense. He says he "deals" with 3500 hp motors. Deals with them how? He is the secretary at the place?
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Thought I'd post this here since my $#@!post account may be banned as usual

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PencilGeek Click here to enlarge
        That's his opinion and many people probably feel the same way. My point was that he never said meth caused detonation...and I still don't see post #45 that way. But that's OK, let's move on



        I think the proper way to ask the question would be as follows: to run 10 PSI on 91 octane pump gas, is meth required? I think the answer is definitely yes while you're implying the answer is no.
        Ya talk to Niterider see what he thinks about that idea... He's Daily Driven no meth ~10psi. Been driving his car around HARD since before competitions kits even existed.

        Well Jon, the files are needed to prove they have nothing to hide and that your claim is true. All I've ever seen is evidence of hiding things. We can't just accept your word for the "safe timing" claim without the files. Only a few hours ago, you said detonation only damages pistons and not connecting rods and that was fundamentally wrong. That claim alone tells me that whoever told you that doesn't even understand the basics of detonation and motors-101 -- let alone "safe timing" and meth injection.
        No one needs to take my word for it And I'm not sure Gintani needs to prove anything, their products have spoke for themselves their customers love them and are happy. If people are THAT worried about Gintani being shady then I'm sure Gintani doesn't mind losing that customer to the competition so that those people can go ahead and reverse engineer some other kit before they buy it. It will save Gintani alot of headaches from some Joe know-it-all. IMO those are the type of people I (and I'm sure most business) would rather not deal with.

        I disagree Jon. Too few kits with too few miles on them. But I agree, no more about Gintani. Back to AA.
        Disagree all you want I rather have a hand full of cars daily driven with 20-30k miles on them each vs 100 cars with 1,000 miles on them each. But you know what they say opinions are like $#@!s...
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        His logic is flawed. He talks smack on ethanol as well when we have how many flex-fuel cars being hyped all the time by OEM's? Plus, who cares about an OEM application on what is an aftermarket setup anyway? How many OEM supercharged 12.0:1 compression SC cars are there? His same line of thinking would make boosting the motor invalid.

        Just best to not even read that nonsense. He says he "deals" with 3500 hp motors. Deals with them how? He is the secretary at the place?
        Good point I responded with that point on the other board.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        Good point I responded with that point on the other board.
        Nice to try and fight the battle for the right reasons but just a waste of time dealing with them.
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Nice to try and fight the battle for the right reasons but just a waste of time dealing with them.
        Well I got bored of playing COD