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    • Putting the 2015 BMW F82 M4 7:52 laptime in context against the E92 and E46 M3's

      Sport Auto took the new 2015 F82 M4 out to the Nurburgring and as is customary when testing there recorded a laptime. So how did the car do? They managed a 7 minute and 52 second laptime in favorable conditions. The temperature during the lap attempt was 59 degrees so fairly cool. Additionally, the car had the high performance options available including the DCT transmission, carbon ceramic brakes, and Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.


      How does this laptime stand up against the E46 and E92 generation? Well, Sport Auto happened to test the E92 M3 GTS and recorded a 7:48. The E46 M3 CSL in Sport Auto's hands as well managed a 7:50. So, yes, technically the E92 M3 and E46 M3 have both posted quicker laptimes on the Nurburgring using the same source.

      M4 fanboys will no doubt cry foul and state those two models are track specials and they are right. In the interest of fairness, Sport Auto in a standard manual E92 M3 lapped in 8:05 and did 8:22 with the standard E46 M3. Now these times are being mentioned to put this M4 lap in context but there will also be E46 M3 fanboys who will point out they did not have the same quality rubber available and E92 M3 fanboys who will say they did not have the same carbon ceramic brakes, or transmission, etc.

      This is not a perfect science. Is the F82 M4 capable? Yes. But as the recent 427 wheel horsepower dyno shows one should expect a quicker laptime with that much power, carbon ceramic brakes, and a sub 3600 pound curb weight. The fact the E92 M3 GTS and E46 M3 CSL both lap quicker with much less power and torque definitely should help put the M4 laptime in perspective. As should the list of Nurburgring laptimes below.

      7.39 min – Ferrari 430 Scuderia – 510 hp, 1402 kg, semi-slicks
      7.40 min – Porsche 911 GT3 (997 mk2) – 435 hp, 1426 kg, semi-slicks
      7.40 min – Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG – 571 hp, 1647 kg, sport-suspension
      7.42 min – Lamborghini Murciιlago LP670-4 SV – 670 hp, 1764 kg, semi-slicks
      7.44 min - Porsche 911 Carrera S PDK (991) - 400 hp, 1497 kg, sport-suspension
      7.44 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S (997.2) - 530 hp, 1569 kg
      7.44 min – Audi R8 5.2 FSI R-tronic – 525 hp, 1660 kg, semi-slicks
      7.44 min – Pagani Zonda S – 555 hp, 1388 kg
      7.46 min - Porsche 911 GT2 (996.1) - 462 hp, 1450 kg
      7.46 min – Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera – 530 hp, 1528 kg, semi-slicks
      7.46 min - Mercedes C63 AMG Black Series (Aero Pack, Dunlop SportMaxxRace M0) - 517 hp, 1748 kg
      7.47 min - Porsche 911 Turbo PDK (997.2) - 500 hp, 1573 kg
      7.47 min – Porsche 911 GT3 RS (996) – 381 hp, 1373 kg, semi-slicks
      7.47 min – Wiesmann GT MF5 – 507 hp, 1421 kg, semi-slicks
      7.47 min – Lamborghini Murciιlago LP640 E-gear – 640 hp, 1805 kg, semi-slicks
      7.47 min – Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano – 620 hp, 1748 kg
      7.48 min – Porsche 911 GT3 (997 mk1) – 415 hp, 1440 kg, semi-slicks
      7.48 min – BMW M3 GTS – 450 hp, 1546 kg, semi-slicks
      7.48 min – Porsche 911 GT3 RS (997 mk1) – 415 hp, 1424 kg, semi-slicks
      7.49 min – Corvette Z06 – 512 hp, 1440 kg
      7.50 min – Porsche 911 Carrera S PDK (997 mk2) – 385 hp, 1450 kg, semi-slicks
      7.50 min – BMW M3 CSL – 360 hp, 1421 kg, semi-slicks
      7.51 min - Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG Black Series - 670 hp, 1880 kg
      7.52 min – Porsche Panamera Turbo S - 550 hp, 2028 kg
      7.52 min – Porsche 911 Turbo (997 mk1) – 2nd attempt, 480 hp, 1580 kg (est.), semi-slicks
      7.52 min – Ford GT – 550 hp, 1599 kg
      7.52 min – Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 – 560 hp, 1590 kg, semi-slicks
      7.52 min – Lamborghini Gallardo E-gear ’03 (sport-suspension) – 500 hp, 1613 kg
      7.52 min – Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren – 626 hp, 1747 kg
      7.54 min – Porsche 911 Turbo (997 mk1) – 1st attempt, 480 hp, 1581 kg, semi-slicks
      7.54 min – Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG – 582 hp, 1678 kg, semi-slicks
      7.55 min – Ferrari F430 F1 – 490 hp, 1493 kg, semi-slicks
      7.56 min – Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale – 425 hp, 1387 kg, semi-slicks
      7.56 min – Ferrari California – 460 hp, 1787 kg
      7.57 min – AC Schnitzer Tension (M6) – 552 hp, 1797 kg, semi-slicks
      7.58 min - Raeder-Ford Focus RS - 363 hp, 1441 kg, semi-slicks
      7.59 min - Audi RS5 (facelift) - 450 hp, 1880 kg
      8.01 min - Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Coupι Performance Package - 487 hp, 1770 kg
      8.02 min - Aston Martin DBS - 517 hp, 1727 kg
      8.03 min - Jaguar XKR-S - 550 hp, 1843 kg
      8.03 min – Aston Martin V8 Vantage ’06 – 385 hp, 1636 kg, semi-slicks
      8.03 min - Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG Performance Package - 557 hp, 1919 kg
      8.04 min - Porsche Boxster S PDK - 315 hp, 1405 kg
      8.04 min – Audi R8 (V8) – 420 hp, 1595 kg, semi-slicks
      8.05 min – Porsche 911 Carrera S (997 mk1) – 355 hp, 1461 kg, sport-suspension
      8.05 min – BMW M3 Coupι (E92) – 420 hp, 1608 kg, semi-slicks
      8.05 min – Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series – 507 hp, 1745 kg, semi-slicks
      8.05 min - Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 - 525 hp, 1775 kg
      8.06 min - Porsche Cayman R PDK - 330 hp, 1385 kg, semi-slicks (Conti ForceContact)
      8.07 min - Ferrari 550 Maranello - 485 hp, 1724 kg
      8.09 min - Audi TT RS - 340 hp, 1483 kg
      8.09 min - Ferrari 360 Modena - 400 hp, 1464 kg
      8.09 min – Audi RS4 ’06 – 420 hp, 1728 kg, semi-slicks
      8.09 min – BMW M6 – 507 hp, 1761 kg, semi-slicks
      8.10 min - Porsche Cayman R PDK - 330 hp, 1385 kg
      This article was originally published in forum thread: M4 Nurburgring Time: 7:52 started by richpike View original post
      Comments 58 Comments
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        People forget the overall record is held by an E46... with a blower.

        Good post.
        is that actually the outright street registered BMW lap record on the ring?

        not a bad time at all.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        is that actually the outright street registered BMW lap record on the ring?

        not a bad time at all.
        I believe so I don't know of any other that is quicker.
      1. Obioban's Avatar
        Obioban -
        The GTS was laughable compared to the CSL. It was 4 seconds faster with...
        adjustable suspension (GTS) vs fixed (CSL)
        multi piston calipers (GTS) vs traditional BMW crap (CSL)
        adjustable aero and external wings (GTS) vs tweaked body panels (CSL)
        stroked engine (GTS) vs intake/cames (CSL)
        2 seats (GTS) vs 4 (CSL)
        Gutted/caged interior (GTS) vs not (CSL)
        more modern tires (GTS) vs older (CSL)

        Nothing about it was impressive or favorable to the image of e9x chassis imo.

        As for the time posted for the F8X, it's both impressive an exactly where I'd expect it to be. Put some non street tires on it, and it'll be faster than the GTS or CSL, much less the base models.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
        The GTS was laughable compared to the CSL. It was 4 seconds faster with...
        adjustable suspension (GTS) vs fixed (CSL)
        multi piston calipers (GTS) vs traditional BMW crap (CSL)
        adjustable aero and external wings (GTS) vs tweaked body panels (CSL)
        stroked engine (GTS) vs intake/cames (CSL)
        2 seats (GTS) vs 4 (CSL)
        Gutted/caged interior (GTS) vs not (CSL)
        more modern tires (GTS) vs older (CSL)

        Nothing about it was impressive or favorable to the image of e9x chassis imo.

        As for the time posted for the F8X, it's both impressive an exactly where I'd expect it to be. Put some non street tires on it, and it'll be faster than the GTS or CSL, much less the base models.
        You must be lost.

        The GTS is quicker than the CSL, it is what it is. It's more capable and with the adjustments can be set to excel on many different track layouts.

        People act like a car is geared or the suspension is set or the aero is set for every track. It is not.

        You also are acting as if these times are set in stone. They will vary based on the conditions, tires, driver, etc., especially on a track as long as the 'Ring.

        You basing the CSL as soooo superior on a single laptime on a single track is laughable. But it's because you hump the E46. As someone who actually has had both, the E92 is the more capable track car. Not to say that the E46 isn't great because it is.
      1. DavidV's Avatar
        DavidV -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        CCB doesn't help stop the car faster (repeatability/lack of fade, sure.), tires do
        That is what I used to think as well, but you are so very wrong there.
        Even track specific brake pads make a world of difference in stopping power/distance, with the same tire setup and rotor size.
        Having CCB is like a whole new world of stopping power.
        If it wasn't so ridiculously expensive (+€10K) it would be a no-brainer upgrade.
      1. Obioban's Avatar
        Obioban -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You must be lost.

        The GTS is quicker than the CSL, it is what it is. It's more capable and with the adjustments can be set to excel on many different track layouts.

        People act like a car is geared or the suspension is set or the aero is set for every track. It is not.

        You also are acting as if these times are set in stone. They will vary based on the conditions, tires, driver, etc., especially on a track as long as the 'Ring.

        You basing the CSL as soooo superior on a single laptime on a single track is laughable. But it's because you hump the E46. As someone who actually has had both, the E92 is the more capable track car. Not to say that the E46 isn't great because it is.
        The GTS has adjustable aero that was undoubted dialed in for the ring when the set the time. The CSL does not.

        Yes, I am aware the GTS was faster than the CSL. My point was that it's sad how little faster it was, given how much more compromised as a car it was.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
        The GTS has adjustable aero that was undoubted dialed in for the ring when the set the time. The CSL does not.

        Yes, I am aware the GTS was faster than the CSL. My point was that it's sad how little faster it was, given how much more compromised as a car it was.
        My point was times aren't set in stone and if you compared them at the same time you just might see a larger variance than you think. Not sure why you missed it.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
        That is what I used to think as well, but you are so very wrong there.
        Even track specific brake pads make a world of difference in stopping power/distance, with the same tire setup and rotor size.
        Having CCB is like a whole new world of stopping power.
        If it wasn't so ridiculously expensive (+€10K) it would be a no-brainer upgrade.
        the only way it can help is if modulation is the problem - if you can lock up the wheels you have enough braking FORCE

        however, if the difference between not locking up the wheels and locking up the wheels isn't smooth, then yeah, more progressive pads/calipers will obviously help, you're right.

        tires are still the defining factor in braking distance in the end... so if you're not using the best tires you can before dropping 10k+ on CCB's.. ok so it's not quite as bad as throwing that cash in the fire, but it's the next step behind it lol.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
        The GTS was laughable compared to the CSL. It was 4 seconds faster with...
        adjustable suspension (GTS) vs fixed (CSL)
        multi piston calipers (GTS) vs traditional BMW crap (CSL)
        adjustable aero and external wings (GTS) vs tweaked body panels (CSL)
        stroked engine (GTS) vs intake/cames (CSL)
        2 seats (GTS) vs 4 (CSL)
        Gutted/caged interior (GTS) vs not (CSL)
        more modern tires (GTS) vs older (CSL)

        Nothing about it was impressive or favorable to the image of e9x chassis imo.

        As for the time posted for the F8X, it's both impressive an exactly where I'd expect it to be. Put some non street tires on it, and it'll be faster than the GTS or CSL, much less the base models.
        adjustable suspension is as only as good as the adjustments

        multi piston calipers aren't necessarily better for performance outright

        adjustable aero/wings are only as good as the adjustments again

        engine, seating, gutted + caged, tires.. all valid however lol.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        the only way it can help is if modulation is the problem - if you can lock up the wheels you have enough braking FORCE

        however, if the difference between not locking up the wheels and locking up the wheels isn't smooth, then yeah, more progressive pads/calipers will obviously help, you're right.

        tires are still the defining factor in braking distance in the end... so if you're not using the best tires you can before dropping 10k+ on CCB's.. ok so it's not quite as bad as throwing that cash in the fire, but it's the next step behind it lol.
        Exactly if you have enough braking force that the tires lose grip you are limited by the grip of the tires and not the brakes at that point.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Exactly if you have enough braking force that the tires lose grip you are limited by the grip of the tires and not the brakes at that point.
        too often people overlook (or just have never thought about it) the fact the only thing touching the ground is the tire.. and every property of the tire (thickness/stiffness etc.) must be considered if you're planning on spending good money like that.. unless it's literally just for bling, then whatever!
      1. Obioban's Avatar
        Obioban -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        adjustable suspension is as only as good as the adjustments

        multi piston calipers aren't necessarily better for performance outright

        adjustable aero/wings are only as good as the adjustments again

        engine, seating, gutted + caged, tires.. all valid however lol.
        So you think they didn't know how to set it up properly when setting the ring time?

        Even assuming that's correct (seems unlikely), you're talking about car than has has what makes the M3 brilliant removed (functional street car that seats 4). If you give that up, why not just get a bette//Porsche?
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
        So you think they didn't know how to set it up properly when setting the ring time?

        Even assuming that's correct (seems unlikely), you're talking about car than has has what makes the M3 brilliant removed (functional street car that seats 4). If you give that up, why not just get a bette//Porsche?
        not necessarily

        but there's the potential of at least a few tenths in adjustment, if not potentially more

        but when you've lapped 4 seconds off (significant), and it's costing likely tens of thousands to optimize it a tiny bit more for pure wank factor

        i dunno why they would bother?
      1. Obioban's Avatar
        Obioban -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        not necessarily

        but there's the potential of at least a few tenths in adjustment, if not potentially more

        but when you've lapped 4 seconds off (significant), and it's costing likely tens of thousands to optimize it a tiny bit more for pure wank factor

        i dunno why they would bother?
        I think you're severely underestimating the value they put into those times.

        But, that said, if they couldn't optimize the GTS to be faster... who could?
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        I'm not saying they couldn't, of course they could... There's just little point as seconds is a HUGE deal already.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        there is a gts coming btw. i know what I'm talking about, they could never let the older gen stock be superior on the track
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I'd love to see what would happen if they gave the M3 GTS the M4's horsepower.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'd love to see what would happen if they gave the M3 GTS the M4's horsepower.
        it would $#@! on the m4 gts