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    • Tobias Moers says not to expect any six cylinder AMG motors any time soon and that the V8 is what AMG is about

      Tobias Moers is the head guy over at AMG so when he speaks, we listen. Recently he made an eyebrow raising statement, “The V8 – that's AMG. That's what we stand for, and we will continue to improve from there. And there is still a special group of customers who love the V12. For that reason, this product will continue to be in the lineup as well. I don't actually see a six-cylinder for our AMG models in the Mercedes-Benz portfolio at the moment.”


      That is fine and all but AMG currently makes a relatively tiny 2.0 liter four-cylinder motor. It is nice to see him support V8's, V12's, and larger displacement motors stating they are what AMG is about but he also spends plenty of time talking about the 2.0 liter four-cylinder in the 45 AMG's which has shown itself to be an excellent engine. He also knows Mercedes is cutting displacement as evidenced by the upcoming M177 V8.

      Mercedes itself is already boosting output of their new twin turbo M276 DELA 3.0 liter V6 to 367 horsepower. Whether Moers admits it or not an AMG turbo V6 may be inevitable. That M276 engine can easily put out over 400 horsepower. The C63 obviously is getting a V8 this time around but when the W206 generation rolls around it would not be surprising to see a turbo V6 under the hood.

      Regardless, in the lineup right now there is not a spot for an AMG V6 as the C63 AMG will use the M177 V8 and the CLA45/A45/GLA45 AMG cars are all fine with their four-cylinder M133 motor. It is nice to see that AMG will continue to support the V8 and V12 at least for as long as they can.

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      This article was originally published in forum thread: Tobias Moers says not to expect any six cylinder AMG motors any time soon and that the V8 is what AMG is about started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 15 Comments
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        I don't think there will be an AMG V6 because they are switching back to I6s in the near future. Now that I'm excited about. Also...maybe that means finally, finally finally there will be a new family of V12s.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        I don't think there will be an AMG V6 because they are switching back to I6s in the near future. Now that I'm excited about. Also...maybe that means finally, finally finally there will be a new family of V12s.
        I6 or V6 I think we will see a six from them at some point.

        A new family of V12's? Don't know about that. I think he means continuing on with the V12 they have.
      1. Maverick1975's Avatar
        Maverick1975 -
        All they have to do now is get rid of those crappy 4 cylinder models....
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        I love the sound of a throaty V8?V12, without the need to add in cabin stereo muffler sounds.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I6 or V6 I think we will see a six from them at some point.

        A new family of V12's? Don't know about that. I think he means continuing on with the V12 they have.
        Just talked to an AMG tech on another site who has also heard rumors of a new V12 but they won't tell him anything. He's going to try to dig deeper next time he's sent back over there for more training.

        One thing that upsets me is that they decided to keep power levels the same on the M279 (although haven't seen a dyno of an M279 car yet so can't say for sure) when they have the bigger turbos from the Black Series engine that push them close to 700 hp. Don't know why they didn't just use those in the 279, the 157 is catching up quick.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Maverick1975 Click here to enlarge
        All they have to do now is get rid of those crappy 4 cylinder models....
        They aren't crappy at all.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Just talked to an AMG tech on another site who has also heard rumors of a new V12 but they won't tell him anything. He's going to try to dig deeper next time he's sent back over there for more training.

        One thing that upsets me is that they decided to keep power levels the same on the M279 (although haven't seen a dyno of an M279 car yet so can't say for sure) when they have the bigger turbos from the Black Series engine that push them close to 700 hp. Don't know why they didn't just use those in the 279, the 157 is catching up quick.
        Even if they did use bigger turbos the M157 is lighter with the better breathing top end.

        Would love to hear anything concrete about a new V12 though.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Even if they did use bigger turbos the M157 is lighter with the better breathing top end.

        Would love to hear anything concrete about a new V12 though.
        He was saying something like it would be derived from the current V8 architecture, which would make sense and I feel like that would be very easy for them to do...just take the the 4.7 and add 4 cylinders. Power potential would be nearly incomprehensible given what the M157 can do.

        The reason it came up is because he happened to be replacing the heads on a CL65 that someone had put a full tank of E85 through. I think he said the total bill would be around 20k. He mentioned that the heads look incredibly poor in terms of flow, and he begged the customer to let him open them up a bit. Apparently there is lots of room for improvement, although the 3 valve setup is the ultimate limit. Of course, 2 valve engines can make several thousand horsepower so I think it would be worth it for someone with deep pockets to go after some serious headwork.

        He also definitely seemed to think the V8 lineup was going to stay interesting, given the new 4 liter TT engine. I really can't wait to see what kind of power that ends up making.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        He was saying something like it would be derived from the current V8 architecture, which would make sense and I feel like that would be very easy for them to do...just take the the 4.7 and add 4 cylinders. Power potential would be nearly incomprehensible given what the M157 can do.
        In that case, absolutely.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        The reason it came up is because he happened to be replacing the heads on a CL65 that someone had put a full tank of E85 through.
        Why was the E85 a problem? Additionally, why so much for heads?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        He also definitely seemed to think the V8 lineup was going to stay interesting, given the new 4 liter TT engine. I really can't wait to see what kind of power that ends up making.
        It won't be much different from Audi's motor at least superficially.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Apparently the E85 ate up the valve stem seals and the fuel system didn't seem to like it much either...it was having multiple misfires and losing compression slightly. I guess these things don't like E85 at all...of course they are from before it was really a thing.

        Just saw the M178/GT post, very interesting numbers. Not very torquey but I'm hoping they're sandbagging a bit. I'm sure they are.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They aren't crappy at all.
        definitely are relatively

        imagine even a small displacement 6 sitting inside the baby AMG's.

        yeah, how nice is that thought?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        definitely are relatively
        That doesn't make any sense. Basically everyone has a 2.0 liter four-cylinder and AMG has the best one. How is it crappy when it's the best out of the bunch? Because it isn't a 19 liter 16 cylinder?
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Apparently the E85 ate up the valve stem seals and the fuel system didn't seem to like it much either...it was having multiple misfires and losing compression slightly. I guess these things don't like E85 at all...of course they are from before it was really a thing.

        Just saw the M178/GT post, very interesting numbers. Not very torquey but I'm hoping they're sandbagging a bit. I'm sure they are.
        I know E85 is all the rage now to improver performance w/ a E85 tune, but almost all the techs I have talked to do not recommend it at this time, unless the car comes from the factory for E38. Just passing on what was told to me. I was thinking of adding E38 for my S/C charged 540i, but not now.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        ^ Sorry ment E85 not E38! Click here to enlarge
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        ^ Sorry ment E85 not E38! Click here to enlarge
        Makes sense, and that's something I always think about...how long are all these factory engines being run on E85 going to last? I'm pretty sure this guy said just one tank of E85 was enough to ruin the M275, although it's an older engine that's definitely not designed for any extra ethanol content. Still...I'd be nervous about just running it straight into an otherwise stock engine.